Pushing Direct Injection Limits at 480+whp

highlander

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thanks for the update luke. I was talking to hondata back in march,and said they may offer support for the pump in the future, but as this time it is not supported.
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4piston

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Since its starting to warm up and traction is a little better, I got off the E85 this weekend and switched back to gas. With the extra fuel volume of the E85 the limit really was around 470whp....I stretched 500whp but it wasn't happy fully loaded on the street like that....there simply wasn't enough fuel flow for that. 460-470 on E85 with the middle tq curve softened up a bunch stuck pretty good in 50 degree weather.

So now that its a LITTLE warmer I got some higher octane gas that's available near my house at a pump and was playing with what power level I could stick in this 60-65 deg weather. 530whp with 500tq pretty much blows through the tire in 3.....4th is spinning a touch around 90-100 mph but accelerating hard and eventually hooks up....sticks 5th gear. I'd say this is the power level that the car is the most fun. 460whp 3rd.....530 for 4th gear. It will only get better once we get closer to 80-85 deg then I can consider putting some more power in to accelerate harder. I'm gonna look into some tires that hook a little better without heat in them.
 

Jonno426

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Since its starting to warm up and traction is a little better, I got off the E85 this weekend and switched back to gas. With the extra fuel volume of the E85 the limit really was around 470whp....I stretched 500whp but it wasn't happy fully loaded on the street like that....there simply wasn't enough fuel flow for that. 460-470 on E85 with the middle tq curve softened up a bunch stuck pretty good in 50 degree weather.

So now that its a LITTLE warmer I got some higher octane gas that's available near my house at a pump and was playing with what power level I could stick in this 60-65 deg weather. 530whp with 500tq pretty much blows through the tire in 3.....4th is spinning a touch around 90-100 mph but accelerating hard and eventually hooks up....sticks 5th gear. I'd say this is the power level that the car is the most fun. 460whp 3rd.....530 for 4th gear. It will only get better once we get closer to 80-85 deg then I can consider putting some more power in to accelerate harder. I'm gonna look into some tires that hook a little better without heat in them.

What rim/tire size are you running?

Have you looked into smaller front rotors to run 17s?? Seems like traction would be better with taller sidewall and more compounds available.
 

18RRtypeR

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What rim/tire size are you running?

Have you looked into smaller front rotors to run 17s?? Seems like traction would be better with taller sidewall and more compounds available.
You would need to remove the front brake system... calipers also...to run a smaller diameter wheel.
 


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4piston

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What rim/tire size are you running?

Have you looked into smaller front rotors to run 17s?? Seems like traction would be better with taller sidewall and more compounds available.
I track the car, so I'm not interested in smaller brakes. Once it has heat in the tires after a warmup lap, traction is great.

On The street is a different deal just because I can't get heat in them. I have 19x10 ZE40 with 265 RE71R,, 19x9.5 ZE40 with 255 RE71R, and an 18x9.5 with a Hoosier drag radial. I also have 265 Trofeo R, but its slippery without a good lap on them. The radial is just too small. I'm going to retire 1 set of the Re71 since they are about done and see what other wider drag radial I can fit.
 

theangelofspace15

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Since its starting to warm up and traction is a little better, I got off the E85 this weekend and switched back to gas. With the extra fuel volume of the E85 the limit really was around 470whp....I stretched 500whp but it wasn't happy fully loaded on the street like that....there simply wasn't enough fuel flow for that. 460-470 on E85 with the middle tq curve softened up a bunch stuck pretty good in 50 degree weather.

So now that its a LITTLE warmer I got some higher octane gas that's available near my house at a pump and was playing with what power level I could stick in this 60-65 deg weather. 530whp with 500tq pretty much blows through the tire in 3.....4th is spinning a touch around 90-100 mph but accelerating hard and eventually hooks up....sticks 5th gear. I'd say this is the power level that the car is the most fun. 460whp 3rd.....530 for 4th gear. It will only get better once we get closer to 80-85 deg then I can consider putting some more power in to accelerate harder. I'm gonna look into some tires that hook a little better without heat in them.
Any youtube video coming up so we can see the car?
 

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I haven't lost faith in KTuner, i still believe they are cooking something up that will turn heads. Also i feel like people don't realize this platform is still a baby, just look at supras!
 

remc86007

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I haven't lost faith in KTuner, i still believe they are cooking something up that will turn heads. Also i feel like people don't realize this platform is still a baby, just look at supras!
I hope you are right about ktuner. I will definitely be keeping my ktuner around when I switch to Hondata later this year because I love the tunerview app and ktuner 1.2 obd transponder combination, so I can go back to it if anything amazing comes out. But at this point, I have decided I want to have all the extra options that Hondata currently provides. The inability to log knock retard on ktuner was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

I agree on your assessment of how young the platform still is. As a reader of Honda Tuning starting way back when people were finally getting real reliable power out of B series motors and then the long slow road before people really figured out the early K series, I have no doubt that we are seeing just the very beginning of what will eventually be done to the K20C1.
 

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450whp is my min goal but on stock fuel pump won’t happen. I really wish there was an alternative to buying a motec or Hondata’s overpriced kit. It’s obvious just a high pressure pump could put the 450whp on the rest of the fuel system. It’s like we are either stuck buying a 6900 dollar motec or a 3000 hondata fuel system upgrade just to get a fuel system that can keep up with the stock turbo let alone an upgraded one. Only other option is port injection secondary controller and I don’t like this idea with the fact Bosch ecu is closed loop full throttle. The stock ecu doesn’t know the other fuel is coming in. It will try to compensate and I can’t see this functioning well.
 


CincyTypeR

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My thoughts are if Hondata can get a higher flowing fuel pump working on the stock ecu in their kit, then the high flow fuel pump that 4pistons should be able to work with some programming as well. Just needs to be developed and when it is I will buy!
 

Jpierro79

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My thoughts are if Hondata can get a higher flowing fuel pump working on the stock ecu in their kit, then the high flow fuel pump that 4pistons should be able to work with some programming as well. Just needs to be developed and when it is I will buy!
They aren’t developing it cause then you’d get a Fuel pump kit from someone else. That’s the problem. They could have easily done it already if they wanted to. It’s a matter of scaling input vs output and most other platforms besides Honda like Chevy this is included in software like HP tuners. You can very easily swap many sensors using hp tuners. Since hondata has their fuel kit they are not going to develop software fir 4p pump cause it might hurt their sales on the fuel kit. I felt they should release the fuel pump kit separate from the injectors as not everyone wants 500whp and they know darn well you don’t need injectors for 450whp. They are cornering the market right now with their kit. Truthfully they’d sell more kits in two pieces then in one due to initial out of pocket cost reduction. The other reason they might not even do this is the realization that people are figuring out that other direct injectors from other cars that naturally flow more and are production injectors at much cheaper cost than aftermarket are capable of being run on the stock ecu. Someone will figure imwhich works best soon enough. But that still won’t solve the main dead point of fuel volume via direct injection pump.
 

CincyTypeR

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They aren’t developing it cause then you’d get a Fuel pump kit from someone else. That’s the problem. They could have easily done it already if they wanted to. It’s a matter of scaling input vs output and most other platforms besides Honda like Chevy this is included in software like HP tuners. You can very easily swap many sensors using hp tuners. Since hondata has their fuel kit they are not going to develop software fir 4p pump cause it might hurt their sales on the fuel kit. I felt they should release the fuel pump kit separate from the injectors as not everyone wants 500whp and they know darn well you don’t need injectors for 450whp. They are cornering the market right now with their kit. Truthfully they’d sell more kits in two pieces then in one due to initial out of pocket cost reduction. The other reason they might not even do this is the realization that people are figuring out that other direct injectors from other cars that naturally flow more and are production injectors at much cheaper cost than aftermarket are capable of being run on the stock ecu. Someone will figure imwhich works best soon enough. But that still won’t solve the main dead point of fuel volume via direct injection pump.
Oh I very well know Hondata will drag their feet on supporting other fuel pumps since they want theirs to sell first. Was mainly thinking Ktuner get in the game and even if it is an added cost like I said before to add that feature people will come.
 

Jpierro79

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Oh I very well know Hondata will drag their feet on supporting other fuel pumps since they want theirs to sell first. Was mainly thinking Ktuner get in the game and even if it is an added cost like I said before to add that feature people will come.
Ktuner is busy with a few other things. I dont think they’ll get into the game. I contacted hpttners and right now they are t doing it.
they’ve already tackled many harder ECUs and with much better software versatility it would support changes like wastegate my throw fuel pump parameters and much more. Being 4p racing has a zl1 he probably knows how easy hpttners is to Use and how versatile. They’ve already tackled the architecture of the Bosh med17 with the focus rs. I used their software on my camaro zl1 and loved it: you do everything from air fuel error charts by percentage which you literally Copy paste and adjust by percentage. Imagine scaling a custom MAF housing in four to five pulls to perfection.. doing thibgs like that is all software design not limited by the ecu in anyway. Not to mention hp tuners credit system is much cheaper.
The only way to get other big companies on board is to contact them.
 

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I actually hear another fuel system is in the works and we're happily awaiting testing once they're ready.
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