Pushing Direct Injection Limits at 480+whp

4piston

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PLEASE SEE UPDATES AS WE HAVE PUSHED BEYOND 600hp with DI ONLY

We are finally seeing some forward progress on a bolt-on DI only fuel system. 2 years ago when I started into this, that was the goal and with how slowly things were moving it pushed me into a port injection route. After several delays, I must admit that I focused on other racing that we are involved in and didn't press this issue.

I track my car as an enthusiast, and I'm not chasing 1/4 mile numbers, so I skipped the methanol injection setup that many have squeezed 400+ numbers with. When I was hooking up my port injection, I became frustrated. I first mounted the surge tank and all the spaghetti lines behind my rear seat. I wasn't excited about the fuel lines exposed in the car because I occasionally toss my back seat in and take my kiddos for a ride. Fuel in the car was out...so I then proceeded to mount it in the engine bay as I had seen my friends at USR do. Again....we are already in a tight space and I thought....this isn't that big of a deal for guys that work on cars all the time or have dedicated race cars, but this isn't a long-term solution for guys that use their cars as daily drivers. The lines, the wiring, the ECU issues....its not cheap and its not quick. We jumped back on the DI route immediately as a more "turn-key" solution.

Lets get to the MEAT of things, then I'll get into the details below.

Here is the Setup:
4 Piston Racing 2.0L engine
Motec M142 with Vit Tuned Package
Full-Race 7163 Turbo Kit
Prototype DI bolt-on fuel pump
STOCK fuel injectors
There is no alternate fuel source here...no meth injection, no port injection.


Dyno Chart BELOW is My Stock Type R laid over the tune that we settled on as SAFE on the stock injectors. I show it laid over stock so you know what a baseline looks like on this dyno....I've seen some 390hp dynos posted but a stock car makes 310-320+ on those. So there is your measuring stick....our white one also made 278 here, and 290 FBO before tune. Again, I track this car hard, this isn't a swing at marketing numbers. Good smooth power. This turbo is barely working here, and it would continue WELL past 7000 rpm if we had fuel available. We really ran out of fuel capacity above 6300 rpm and had to pull boost back. We are targeting 28psi....then where you see the graph peak over we are pulling it back to 24 due to lack of fuel as RPM climbs.

Honda Civic 10th gen Pushing Direct Injection Limits at 480+whp HKZOsBCknZK-NinWZT988unDbXJGUQs_XGIB2_8SuzVEu7QIHKvAmYyD5pCk6jfttwfaMOPzx&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1


This chart BELOW we put 2psi more into the turbo where we did have fuel...then you can see it get pretty unhappy up top and has a slight miss. The Motec keeps it safe and pulls boost back as I continue to pull through the chaos. There is so much more left on the table...we just started to get into where the turbo was happy. That's 206whp over stock at 5700 rpm....it feels awesome. Let me tell you that 450+ wtq can be FELT. We had another pull even higher that I aborted early. I'll be back to pouring on the boost next week.

Honda Civic 10th gen Pushing Direct Injection Limits at 480+whp pRz2PqgTG9IKtGRy1OvUxlksunUITexbF-AxCi6paq9KlU_ZjD_niO7Zn3EYCX4xxjh-y1k-S&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1


The 2 next steps are to replace the injectors with our higher flowing units and try this pump again, then we bolt on a bigger DI pump which is a bit more involved. Why didn't we replace the injectors to start with if we had them? Because bolting this pump on takes 30 minutes. Putting the injectors in is a voyage, and some may not be up for it. Putting the even bigger pump on is also more involved and will take a new high pressure fuel line.

Now into the details.......

Motec M142
I'm a Motec junkie...so I'm biased. I've been down many other roads over the last 20 years and discovering Motec was one of the best things I've ever done. I don't sell Motec, I pay full price and I have no vested interest other than I friggin love it. The stock ECU wasn't cracked when I started pushing this car so when Vit Viper had a package knocked out in a couple days it didn't take any convincing for me to buy it. I tune our drag race cars on Motec and I'm comfortable with it....I tune all of our engines on the engine dyno on Motec. Vit tunes the Type R for me...takes him about 30 seconds to adjust things that would take me 10 minutes just to find :) The best thing you get with Motec is the support structure...the brilliant minds at your fingertips and the worldwide support. The hardware is bulletproof, the software makes sense, but the support from Motec is what you really buy into. It is a high end motorsports grade ECU at an entry level motorsports price. Anyone interested is welcome to DM me and I'll give you the good, the bad and the ugly, but this specific package that I've been using now since I had my car is available as a Vit Tuned Package from Max at VMR Performance.

Full Race - Borg Warner 7163
It wasn't hard talking me into this kit...we have used Full Race in the past and its just nice stuff. I had their 9180 kit on my 900+whp EVO, and I just have faith that I open the box and every bolt and clamp is in there and ready for us to install. I have an angel on one shoulder telling me the stock turbo power at 360whp was a perfect balance and telling me to not get too far away from the big torque surge and partial throttle response....and I had the devil on the other shoulder telling me that everyone wants to see some big unusable horsepower number that sells parts. I had to check myself a few times when picking a turbo....I Auto X this car, I track the car....I know I'm not going to break any drag race records with these big brakes. I do need more top end as I'm getting yanked down the straight by my track buddies who are in GT3s and my old man in his ZL1. This 7163 did not disappoint. I am running the stock electronic WG and while it doesn't allow for a full range of OEM control in opening the WG all the way at the moment, it works really well for my needs. You feel the slightest touch of lag, but if you look at the charts its making good tq. That bit of lag actually helps this thing keep traction...I have the traction control off right now and its hooking up excellent and then REALLY out accelerates....where the stock turbo at full tilt blew the tires off and they kinda kept spinning. I never had traction issues on the track....but certainly on the street. This turbo just puts yo ass in the seat early and never gives up. After I sort this DI fuel setup....I'll show you the real capability with the port injection. Its a great balance for this chassis for guys that want to track, but want to be pinned in the seat with some big power. I'm really enjoying how the car drives around town better than the stock turbo. Its more predictable....and I feel I have more control over the throttle. When I want the power it comes to me in a major way.

I'm also happy with how repeatable the power is now. When I first had my car on the dyno stock, I made that 287 and in 15 dyno pulls that was my best...and I saw as low as 264/245 tq. Same thing when I was making 365 tuned....sometimes it would make 340 with no changes as all....then back to 350, then 360. This Motec and Full Race setup delivers predictable results. The engine is very happy with the ported head and this larger turbo setup as well.

We will be back shortly with a big power push over 500 on the DI setup, some track time.....then we will really pour the coals to it with the port injection and some hot fuel. 600hp is neato on paper, but reality is that right now this car feels excellent for turning some laps.

Honda Civic 10th gen Pushing Direct Injection Limits at 480+whp ZBEgDDwTUmrzVMx-1EQOUsv2B8XGCGqkHeP-eYMqVSUcbYWIvThNfI23SPiZN8OHmQUgdnvU-&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1


Honda Civic 10th gen Pushing Direct Injection Limits at 480+whp y68HLTn7D4lrlK433F6dnAD4vwWDT5uum4esnhk9MzHMHz1YLoHkDgbRa1IUBhz21vHz7V9zf&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1


Honda Civic 10th gen Pushing Direct Injection Limits at 480+whp WRl67gVyR_67wamAlRVdiBVcKDLBCN2awM8qht-aPFyLuXIT1E99NSrnGt56CK_VGibsLZ89H&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1
 
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jasonjm

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Couple Qs,

What oil cooler is that?
Did you have to paint the Js grill?
 
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4piston

4piston

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Couple Qs,

What oil cooler is that?
Did you have to paint the Js grill?
It is the HKS Oil cooler. Once of those things that when I opened the box I was really happy with my purchase, and it has good instructions.
Yes I had to paint the J's Grill. I just gave my buddy at the dealer my VIN and he matched it up.
 


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Can you share more info on the Prototype DI bolt-on fuel pump you mention? I personally find that more interesting than the turbo and MoTeC. This upgraded pump, could it work and be controlled on a stock PCM or is it something that is only working and presenting itself as an option because you have the MoTeC?
 

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It is the HKS Oil cooler. Once of those things that when I opened the box I was really happy with my purchase, and it has good instructions.
Yes I had to paint the J's Grill. I just gave my buddy at the dealer my VIN and he matched it up.
Thanks, have you thought about using an overdriven HPFP?
 
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4piston

4piston

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Can you share more info on the Prototype DI bolt-on fuel pump you mention? I personally find that more interesting than the turbo and MoTeC. This upgraded pump, could it work and be controlled on a stock PCM or is it something that is only working and presenting itself as an option because you have the MoTeC?
I'll have the pump available as soon as I'm 100% comfortable in its capability and durability. I have had it on the car for a week....I want to make sure it works and is reliable. I know of others that have not worked so I want to make sure this thing is good to go. I also want to see how it performs with higher flowing injectors.
 

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I'll have the pump available as soon as I'm 100% comfortable in its capability and durability. I have had it on the car for a week....I want to make sure it works and is reliable. I know of others that have not worked so I want to make sure this thing is good to go. I also want to see how it performs with higher flowing injectors.
Game changer!
 

davemarco

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I'll have the pump available as soon as I'm 100% comfortable in its capability and durability. I have had it on the car for a week....I want to make sure it works and is reliable. I know of others that have not worked so I want to make sure this thing is good to go. I also want to see how it performs with higher flowing injectors.
Thanks guys! I see that you guys went all out and paired this pump with a bigger turbo. Do you happen to know how well this pump works with the stock turbo? I ask because I've read that some of the stock engine full bolt on guys start running into dangerous lean conditions around the 370 whp+ area, and some have attributed it to the factory fuel pump running at its limits.
 


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I'll have the pump available as soon as I'm 100% comfortable in its capability and durability. I have had it on the car for a week....I want to make sure it works and is reliable. I know of others that have not worked so I want to make sure this thing is good to go. I also want to see how it performs with higher flowing injectors.
I hope that with a better flowing pump with some of the stock ecu table issues fixed (see PRLs post on their hybrid turbo), we’ll be cracking 400whp while keeping torque below 400wtq (assuming this hypothetical dyno is 300whp/300wtq for arguments sake). If that is the case, I think the market for that will be huge.

I daily drive my car (with an occasional HPDE) so a full on turbo upgrade and full internal build is out of the question for me (I suspect many people are in the same boat) .

But a 30 min install on a fuel pump while being able to tune with hondata or ktuner (and not motec) and FBO to get to 400whp while keeping factory spool up? Will be an absolute game changer! It would be nice to not have torque fall off so hard after 5k rpm. My car is quick by any measure but man id love to be able to use the rest of the rev range up top.

If your pumps do hit the market, sign me up for a pre order!
 

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I'll have the pump available as soon as I'm 100% comfortable in its capability and durability. I have had it on the car for a week....I want to make sure it works and is reliable. I know of others that have not worked so I want to make sure this thing is good to go. I also want to see how it performs with higher flowing injectors.
Is this something that would potentially be available for us 1.5T guys as well?
 
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4piston

4piston

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Thanks guys! I see that you guys went all out and paired this pump with a bigger turbo. Do you happen to know how well this pump works with the stock turbo? I ask because I've read that some of the stock engine full bolt on guys start running into dangerous lean conditions around the 370 whp+ area, and some have attributed it to the factory fuel pump running at its limits.
The stock pump is definitely working hard around that power level with the stock turbo. I know guys have made more...whether there’s a few dyno tricks , fuel, or just dyno equipment reading differently....stock pump was pretty toast on my car at that power. Once I’m satisfied I’ll be working on the mapping on our white car which is in Hondata. There will be more power available but I wouldn’t count on a ton on pump gas.

I hope that with a better flowing pump with some of the stock ecu table issues fixed (see PRLs post on their hybrid turbo), we’ll be cracking 400whp while keeping torque below 400wtq (assuming this hypothetical dyno is 300whp/300wtq for arguments sake). If that is the case, I think the market for that will be huge.

I daily drive my car (with an occasional HPDE) so a full on turbo upgrade and full internal build is out of the question for me (I suspect many people are in the same boat) .

But a 30 min install on a fuel pump while being able to tune with hondata or ktuner (and not motec) and FBO to get to 400whp while keeping factory spool up? Will be an absolute game changer! It would be nice to not have torque fall off so hard after 5k rpm. My car is quick by any measure but man id love to be able to use the rest of the rev range up top.

If your pumps do hit the market, sign me up for a pre order!
Having gobs more top end, low torque to save rods, and low end spool up sounds like a lot going on. The nature of the stock turbo is big tq surge....and power falling off up top as it can’t hold the boost. A way guys have worked around this is with race fuel and more aggressive timing.

Take a look at the layover over stock....more than 100 lb ft over stock at 4000 rpm and we aren’t throwing all the boost at it. You aren’t giving up any low end here.
 

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Instead of replacing the turbo, will this new HPFP allow E85 tunes to pass 400whp through the use of timing or will those still be limited by the injectors?
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