PRL Motorsports P600 Honda Civic Type-R FK8 Drop-In Turbocharger Upgrade Development

First Name
John
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
28
Reaction score
27
Location
Myrtle Beach South Carolina
Car(s)
2018 Civic Type R
Country flag
Also last I checked Luke was just over 600whp. There’s no 900hp fk8. The camshafts don’t allow it. It would take nitrous and I doubt any current build can withstand nitrous and over 35psi.
The k series block 4piston uses to make 1000 has had over a decade of development work. No cams other than ballade exists cause the cams are hollow. You can’t just grind them down. Yeah there are some rods that will take 1000hp.
I haven’t seen anyone over a real 600whp and if someone thinks with a stock turbo inlet your getting 1000hp I think you need to seriously think about what believing. Not trying to be rude. There are dynos over 600 but it’s dyno only power. I can tell you it’s absolutely not possible to transfer to street. Throwing extra timing at it cause the roller weighs less than the car will not work on the street.
You’d need a 4.5 MAF housing or bigger to go 1000hp. . Or Motec with upgraded map sensors. Custom ones cause the manifold MAF contains an iat sensor so motec is mandatory. K20c1 cams cannot make power over 7800. Also the oil pump will start to cavitate soon after. It’s not designed to rev that high.
The 1000hp 4 piston motor revs to 10k otherwise it would never spool the turbo. It also has vtec on both cams k20c1 does not.
Let’s be totally real. With the biggest DI injectors and xdi pump and port kit and upgraded in tank pump fully built sleeved motor oringed on a g30-770 you might on full e85 see close to 700whp. “MIGHT” if there was a real 1000hp fk8 it would be blasted all over every tuner magazine in the world.

I do not consider nitrous added on to turbo car real power. Other than methanol which really is no different than running ethanol is considered real power.
running a car on a 4wd dyno with the rear rollers disconnected halves the weight so it’s only putting partial load against the engine you can throw a bunch of timing and boost at it that it wouldn’t otherwise handle on the street. That is NOT real hp. I will believe Luke if he tells me he made a certain hp Derek also. A few other individuals I trust but I sure can tell you I’ll be damned to believe 650whp out of a particular party.
besides the trans would explode almost immediately doing dyno in 4th since 500whp destroys it now. Anything near 900whp would be total massacre. I’m not certain that even with a upgraded 4th the final gear wo t just completely shred. Theres no reall upgrade that can really take that much power.
believe what you want but 800whp would be plastered everywhere if it was real.
Advertisement

 

MoTeC R

Slow For Show
First Name
Smally
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
705
Reaction score
377
Location
Ohio
Car(s)
2021 Accord Touring, 2019 Civic Type R
Build Thread
Link
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
“The 4 Piston Racing K20C1 Crate Engine is designed to be a more durable and more powerful engine than the OEM K20C1. The OEM connecting rods are strained with increased torque loads and bend easily with the power that is able to be produced by the stock turbo and fuel system. Our engine replaces those with a forged Saenz I-beam connecting rod that is 100 grams lighter than stock, yet can handle more than double the torque and horsepower”

More than double = 1000+ That’s my goal, won’t be what I use for normal driving days but it will be done on the dyno once the turbo solution is rectified.
 

turbociv910

Senior Member
First Name
taylor
Joined
Jun 24, 2019
Messages
967
Reaction score
906
Location
wilmington nc
Car(s)
2020 SGP Civic Type R, Audi Q5
Build Thread
Link
Country flag
“The 4 Piston Racing K20C1 Crate Engine is designed to be a more durable and more powerful engine than the OEM K20C1. The OEM connecting rods are strained with increased torque loads and bend easily with the power that is able to be produced by the stock turbo and fuel system. Our engine replaces those with a forged Saenz I-beam connecting rod that is 100 grams lighter than stock, yet can handle more than double the torque and horsepower”

More than double = 1000+ That’s my goal, won’t be what I use for normal driving days but it will be done on the dyno once the turbo solution is rectified.
careful with saenz, …you should look into the wiseco boost lines.. I personally know two people who have bent saenz.. not their top tier rod, but just saying

Also last I checked Luke was just over 600whp. There’s no 900hp fk8. The camshafts don’t allow it. It would take nitrous and I doubt any current build can withstand nitrous and over 35psi.
The k series block 4piston uses to make 1000 has had over a decade of development work. No cams other than ballade exists cause the cams are hollow. You can’t just grind them down. Yeah there are some rods that will take 1000hp.
I haven’t seen anyone over a real 600whp and if someone thinks with a stock turbo inlet your getting 1000hp I think you need to seriously think about what believing. Not trying to be rude. There are dynos over 600 but it’s dyno only power. I can tell you it’s absolutely not possible to transfer to street. Throwing extra timing at it cause the roller weighs less than the car will not work on the street.
You’d need a 4.5 MAF housing or bigger to go 1000hp. . Or Motec with upgraded map sensors. Custom ones cause the manifold MAF contains an iat sensor so motec is mandatory. K20c1 cams cannot make power over 7800. Also the oil pump will start to cavitate soon after. It’s not designed to rev that high.
The 1000hp 4 piston motor revs to 10k otherwise it would never spool the turbo. It also has vtec on both cams k20c1 does not.
Let’s be totally real. With the biggest DI injectors and xdi pump and port kit and upgraded in tank pump fully built sleeved motor oringed on a g30-770 you might on full e85 see close to 700whp. “MIGHT” if there was a real 1000hp fk8 it would be blasted all over every tuner magazine in the world.
yeah.. luke has posted a 550whp graph on this forum, but when pepo posted something about being the highest power on fb, luke said he made another hundred over that. being like 650 IIRC. i don't see why he wouldn't post that graph to sell engines... so idk if he has or if hes just claiming it

when you mean grind cams down, i assume ballade does not actually grind the cams down, they weld/add material to them and then grind it down to the new higher lift profile, not removing any oem material.. so you can "regrind" them.. unless Im wrong and you know for sure they are new blanks, which would be $$$$$ on their R D... they don't even make good usable power.. and they haven't even posted a dyno graph showing their claims.

a certain company has development underway for non oem mafs...birdie told me
 

ThorSellsCars

Senior Member
First Name
Will
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
298
Reaction score
125
Location
Houston TX
Car(s)
2019 CW CTR, 2019 Honda Civic EX 1.5T (Sold)
Vehicle Showcase
2
Country flag
“The 4 Piston Racing K20C1 Crate Engine is designed to be a more durable and more powerful engine than the OEM K20C1. The OEM connecting rods are strained with increased torque loads and bend easily with the power that is able to be produced by the stock turbo and fuel system. Our engine replaces those with a forged Saenz I-beam connecting rod that is 100 grams lighter than stock, yet can handle more than double the torque and horsepower”

More than double = 1000+ That’s my goal, won’t be what I use for normal driving days but it will be done on the dyno once the turbo solution is rectified.
You didnt read any of that work up please stop with your non sense, its not about the motor or the built motor for that fact its about:
The camshafts don’t allow it.

You’d need a 4.5 MAF housing or bigger to go 1000hp. . Or Motec with upgraded map sensors. Custom ones cause the manifold MAF contains an iat sensor so motec is mandatory.

besides the trans would explode almost immediately doing dyno in 4th since 500whp destroys it now. Anything near 900whp would be total massacre

Also the PRL 600 will only be good for 600WHP, thats why its called the "600", the only kit that will get you to "1000" like you keep screeching about would be full race and even then youre limited now by the Camshafts, ECU, Fueling, Size of turbo again and transmission.
 

360glitch

Moderator
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
4,633
Reaction score
4,713
Location
USA
Car(s)
2019 Accord Sport 2.0T, 2017 Si Sedan (Sold), 2017 Sport Hatchback (Sold)
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
“The 4 Piston Racing K20C1 Crate Engine is designed to be a more durable and more powerful engine than the OEM K20C1. The OEM connecting rods are strained with increased torque loads and bend easily with the power that is able to be produced by the stock turbo and fuel system. Our engine replaces those with a forged Saenz I-beam connecting rod that is 100 grams lighter than stock, yet can handle more than double the torque and horsepower”

More than double = 1000+ That’s my goal, won’t be what I use for normal driving days but it will be done on the dyno once the turbo solution is rectified.
Power handling =/= power output

I can purchase a deadlift bar rated for 1000lbs but that doesn't mean I can load it up and get it off the ground. :)

Nothing wrong with having big goals but if you want any hope of achieving it you will want to try to keep it realistic in consideration of what will be required to achieve it and what solutions the market offers.
 
OP
OP
PRL Motorsports

PRL Motorsports

Premium Performance Products
Elite Sponsor
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
1,466
Reaction score
3,990
Location
Export, PA
Website
prlmotorsports.com
Car(s)
2017 Civic Si, 2016 Civic EX-T, 2018 Type R
Country flag
A few weeks back we sent out a few P600 turbochargers to companies for third party testing in an effort to see real-world data such as dyno numbers, track times and reliability. Sean and Mike at Kinetic Autoworks in Maryland were able to offer us a customer’s FK8 Civic Type-R for testing. Fortunately for us, this customer had already purchased a clutch upgrade and Hondata fuel system upgrade to support larger power goals. These upgrades would allow us to see the P600 turbocharger’s potential beyond the factory fuel system and clutch limitations we experienced during previous testing on our V1 P600 prototype.

Vehicle Modifications:
  • Hondata FlashPro
  • Hondata Fuel System Upgrade
  • PRL Motorsports Flex Fuel Kit
  • PRL Motorsports P600 Turbocharger Upgrade
  • PRL Motorsports High Volume Intake System
  • PRL Motorsports Titanium Turbocharger Inlet Pipe Kit
  • PRL Motorsports Intercooler & Charge Pipe Upgrade Kit
  • PRL Motorsports Downpipe & Front Pipe Upgrade
  • Exhaust System Upgrade
  • Clutch Masters Clutch Upgrade

93oct.png


We wanted to compare data between the factory turbocharger and P600 on 93 octane with an identical boost curve at 26 PSI. The P600 produced 415.81 horsepower and 408 ft/lbs torque, which was a 39 horsepower and 15 ft/lb torque gain in comparison to the factory turbocharger at the same boost level. We also see 20+ horsepower gains from about 4300 RPM until redline. We only see a 400-600 RPM delay in turbocharger spool. The deadly torque spike of the factory turbocharger was softened, pushing peak torque to the right.

Tuned_Runs.png


Kinetic also put together an e50 tune for their customer to allow them safely push just under 500 horsepower with stock engine. Ethanol allowed the P600 to make 494 horsepower and 451 ft/lbs torque at 27 PSI. Peak power still carried to the 7300 RPM rev limit without dropping, so race applications will be able to efficiently rev even further.

Thus far we are very satisfied with the P600’s results. We expect the P600 to be able to efficiently make power until around 40 PSI given the compressor wheel design, which will allow for 600 horsepower capabilities. 27 PSI is just beginning to scratch the surface of the P600’s true potential, especially given our ball bearing CHRA design for the much-needed longevity at higher boost levels. This turbo upgrade will allow customers to make impressive power gains at lower boost levels, which means lower shaft speeds, less back-pressure, lower EGTs, lower charge air temps, lower IATs, and improved turbocharger, engine and component reliability.

Our friends at Hondata are also working on a basemap calibration for the P600 turbocharger that we expect to see available by the time these turbochargers are released to the public. Stay tuned for more third party testing results to be followed by pricing and a release date in the very near future!

http://prlarmy.com/Blog/prl-motorsp...p-in-turbocharger-upgrade-development-part-5/
 

MoTeC R

Slow For Show
First Name
Smally
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
705
Reaction score
377
Location
Ohio
Car(s)
2021 Accord Touring, 2019 Civic Type R
Build Thread
Link
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
Also last I checked Luke was just over 600whp. There’s no 900hp fk8. The camshafts don’t allow it. It would take nitrous and I doubt any current build can withstand nitrous and over 35psi.
The k series block 4piston uses to make 1000 has had over a decade of development work. No cams other than ballade exists cause the cams are hollow. You can’t just grind them down. Yeah there are some rods that will take 1000hp.
I haven’t seen anyone over a real 600whp and if someone thinks with a stock turbo inlet your getting 1000hp I think you need to seriously think about what believing. Not trying to be rude. There are dynos over 600 but it’s dyno only power. I can tell you it’s absolutely not possible to transfer to street. Throwing extra timing at it cause the roller weighs less than the car will not work on the street.
You’d need a 4.5 MAF housing or bigger to go 1000hp. . Or Motec with upgraded map sensors. Custom ones cause the manifold MAF contains an iat sensor so motec is mandatory. K20c1 cams cannot make power over 7800. Also the oil pump will start to cavitate soon after. It’s not designed to rev that high.
The 1000hp 4 piston motor revs to 10k otherwise it would never spool the turbo. It also has vtec on both cams k20c1 does not.
Let’s be totally real. With the biggest DI injectors and xdi pump and port kit and upgraded in tank pump fully built sleeved motor oringed on a g30-770 you might on full e85 see close to 700whp. “MIGHT” if there was a real 1000hp fk8 it would be blasted all over every tuner magazine in the world.

I do not consider nitrous added on to turbo car real power. Other than methanol which really is no different than running ethanol is considered real power.
running a car on a 4wd dyno with the rear rollers disconnected halves the weight so it’s only putting partial load against the engine you can throw a bunch of timing and boost at it that it wouldn’t otherwise handle on the street. That is NOT real hp. I will believe Luke if he tells me he made a certain hp Derek also. A few other individuals I trust but I sure can tell you I’ll be damned to believe 650whp out of a particular party.
besides the trans would explode almost immediately doing dyno in 4th since 500whp destroys it now. Anything near 900whp would be total massacre. I’m not certain that even with a upgraded 4th the final gear wo t just completely shred. Theres no reall upgrade that can really take that much power.
believe what you want but 800whp would be plastered everywhere if it was real.
Luke’s at 850+ currently. He needs to sleeve and finish building his motor this winter. I’m sure you’ll see his 1000+ dyno in the next 3 months or so. When he’s done he will be running the same engine on his personal car that I had them build for me.

The 1000+ can be done on this engine but the current solution would require removing the AC.
 
Last edited:

2020CTR

Senior Member
First Name
Joshua
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
Messages
50
Reaction score
10
Location
San Antonio
Car(s)
2020 civic type R
Country flag
I’m at 419 whp ,tuned by pepo on methanol and full bolt on except inlet pipe . That 494 number is great
4F67ED84-2BC1-4D3E-B0BE-7127A5B151A9.jpeg
.
 
OP
OP
PRL Motorsports

PRL Motorsports

Premium Performance Products
Elite Sponsor
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
1,466
Reaction score
3,990
Location
Export, PA
Website
prlmotorsports.com
Car(s)
2017 Civic Si, 2016 Civic EX-T, 2018 Type R
Country flag
Final Dyno Testing with the P600 (Accord and Type-R)

Test Vehicles:

PRL Accord
  • Factory K20C4 Engine and 10 Speed Automatic Transmission
  • KTuner and Hondata
  • PRL Type-R P600 Drop In Turbo Upgrade
  • PRL Type-R Titanium Turbo Inlet Pipe
  • PRL Accord HVI High Volume Intake System
  • PRL Accord FMIC
  • PRL Accord Race DP/FP Combo
  • Factory Exhaust
IMW Accord
  • Factory K20C4 Engine and 10 Speed Automatic Transmission
  • Type-R FK8 Turbocharger
  • Factory Accord Inlet
  • KTuner
  • PRL Accord HVI High Volume Intake System
  • PRL Accord FMIC
  • PRL Accord Street DP/FP Combo
  • Factory Exhaust
RedStar Civic Type-R FK8
  • Built K20C1 by RedStar (Carillo Rods, JE 86mm Pistons, Ferrea Valves, Springs & Retainers
  • Factory 6-Speed
  • PRL Type-R P600 Drop In Turbo Upgrade
  • Factory Type-R Inlet Pipe
  • PRL Type-R HVI High Volume Intake System
  • PRL Type-R Intercooler w/ Upgraded Charge Pipes
  • Meth Injection
  • PRL Type-R Race Downpipe/FP Combo
  • Ultimate Racing Exhaust

Over the past few weeks we have been working with KTuner and Hondata, testing and experimenting with the Accord 2.0T platform so we can fully understand its potential, capabilities and limitations for higher-power applications.

Initially we began testing our shop Accord with Hondata. Our car was able to make a best of 423 horsepower and 371 ft/lbs torque at 28 PSI, backed by repetitive numbers. The factory MAP and TC Pressure sensors left us stranded at 28 PSI (we were also beginning to clip the limits of the factory MAF table's range of 10,000hz (which Hondata now plans on releasing a public software update to allow MAF scale table reindexing). During testing datalogs showed signs of limited available ignition advance due to what was theorized to be knock control intervention or a torque limit in the ECU or TCM at the higher power output.


P600.png

For our next round of testing we drove out to Innovative MotorWorks in Carlisle, PA to collaborate with Derek Robinson and KTuner in an effort to push this setup even further. The goal was to have back-to-back testing with the factory FK8 turbo swap vs our P600 for a very close "apples-to-apples" comparison. KTuner was kind enough to enable 4Bar MAP sensor support just before heading out, allowing us to toss in a set of Hondata 4Bar MAP sensors before making the trip. KTuner already allowed for reindexing of the MAF scale table's frequency range, standard. Once bolted to the dyno, the PRL Accord was instantly able to make more power, and achieve higher boost pressure targets. Derek and KTuner were able to adjust some knock control behavior related to the amount and rate of pulled ignition timing at a given knock event. These changes allowed us to add a bit more overall ignition timing before knock control ultimately limited us once more (which we believe to be false knock, given the power increases that were being made). Our car made a best of 466 horsepower and 434 ft/lbs torque.

Due to the nature of the DynaPack's increased load capability during a power curve test, torque needed to be limited in the midrange, as some transmission slip was detected when more than 420ft/lbs was made at earlier engine speeds (possibly when available transmission line pressure is lower). The boost curve was tuned to target 25 PSI at 3900 RPM increasing to peak boost of 33 PSI at 5400 RPM to redline. Also to note, power carried all the way to/past redline, indicating the need to rev the accords higher, which is another limitation of the current automatic transmission control's shift logic. Manual transmission Accords won't have this problem, of course.


FK8Accord.png

Derek then bolted down his personal FK8 turbo-equipped Accord to the DynaPack to see what it could do. This car made a best of 399 horsepower and 404 ft/lbs torque at ~27 PSI (tapering down to around 24 PSI), which was actually the highest power he’s put down with an FK8 turbo-equipped Accord to date on this machine. Typically, similar setups are fuel system-limited by ethanol blended fuels before this power level.

P600vsFK8Accord.png

P600vsFK8Accord_2.png

P600 Vs FK8 Turbocharger (Accord)

While wildly popular (and for good reason), ethanol blended fuels do tax fuel systems harder to achieve the same power level as gasoline fuel. Both of these Accords were tested using ethanol-free VP 110-octane gasoline, which was poured in with a range "7-10 miles" until an empty tank. We elected to use VP 110 race gas due to the fact it would allow us to extend the factory fuel system range further than ethanol fueling, while maintaining similar knock resistance. VP MS100 (unleaded non-oxygenated) fuel would have been used like we’ve done in the past, however it was unavailable at the time of testing.

A few things to note:

  • Both KTuner (currently) and Hondata (in the near future) allow MAF table re-indexing to extend to the usable range of the sensor (14,000Hz~)
  • 4Bar MAP sensor support is needed to make the most of this turbocharger upgrade for this platform, which currently KTuner is the only option offering this support
  • The 10-speed automatic Accord platform could really benefit from the ability to rev higher before a forced automatic upshift, and having access to other transmission control parameters.
  • Further adjustment of knock control range and sensitivity could be of great worth at elevated power levels and/or for aftermarket engine-internal use (to account for the differing noise that accompanies things like forged pistons and stiff valvetrain).

Keep in mind that this 466 horsepower was produced with the “underdog” 2.0L turbo engine (inferior cylinder head/camshafts, power-robbing balance shafts, etc), and through an automatic transmission, only revving to 6100 RPM (to avoid an upshift during the DynaPack's "autoplot" test).

Type-R Testing

93oct(1).png

RedStar Motoring installed our P600 on Pepo’s personal FK8 Civic Type-R to see how it responds at higher boost levels. He made a best of 575 horsepower and 506 ft/lbs torque at 34 PSI using VP104 fuel with methanol injection and 556 horsepower and 487 ft/lbs torque without meth. This current power is with a steady 34 PSI boost curve holding flat until redline, and we believe that the P600 has no problem reaching its 600 horsepower expectations with just a bit more boost. Hopefully we can see what kind of ¼ mile time this setup puts down at the track next week!

93oct(1).png

Pepo made a best of 535 horsepower and 482 ft/lbs torque using pump gas with methanol injection, and 472 horsepower and 417 ft/lbs torque without meth.

BaselinevsVP104.png

For the fun of it, we graphed a factory turbocharger dyno pull from Kinetic’s original testing to see how it compared to Red Star’s big power P600 dyno pull. To our surprise, turbocharger spool differences between the two appear to be negligible, if any!

We also want to thank all parties involved. These platforms and our products could not do what they do without you.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
PRL Motorsports

PRL Motorsports

Premium Performance Products
Elite Sponsor
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
1,466
Reaction score
3,990
Location
Export, PA
Website
prlmotorsports.com
Car(s)
2017 Civic Si, 2016 Civic EX-T, 2018 Type R
Country flag

Learn2turn

Senior Member
First Name
Christopher
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
714
Reaction score
360
Location
Rio Rancho NM
Car(s)
'79 Toyota Longbed PU, '95 (Drift Toy) Miata, '05 Tuned Gran Prix White S2000, '19 Championship White C-Type R
Country flag
Excellent work guys!! Merry Christmas 🎅🤶
 
OP
OP
PRL Motorsports

PRL Motorsports

Premium Performance Products
Elite Sponsor
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
1,466
Reaction score
3,990
Location
Export, PA
Website
prlmotorsports.com
Car(s)
2017 Civic Si, 2016 Civic EX-T, 2018 Type R
Country flag
P600_SOLD_OUT.jpg


We thank everyone for their support and trust in our Honda 2.0T P600 Turbocharger Upgrade; we are truly flattered. Our first batch of pre-orders with an expected ship date of May 14th are now completely sold out. We recommend reaching out to one of our stocking Dealers, such as MAPerformance, Options Auto Salon, Vivid Racing or Two Step Performance for any chance to receive a first batch P600.

Any order placed after this morning will be scheduled into the second batch of turbochargers with a tentative expected ship date of June 25th.
 
OP
OP
PRL Motorsports

PRL Motorsports

Premium Performance Products
Elite Sponsor
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
1,466
Reaction score
3,990
Location
Export, PA
Website
prlmotorsports.com
Car(s)
2017 Civic Si, 2016 Civic EX-T, 2018 Type R
Country flag
Our team managed to put together a small batch of P600 turbochargers for early pre-order fulfillment. Tomorrow we will be chronically shipping 40+ turbos after final inspection. All other pre-orders are still on target to ship on the original expected ship date(s). Thanks again to everyone for their continued support and patience!

148798725_4221491624546677_36581844995965639_o.jpg

148575898_4221491797879993_9065454836561450657_o.jpg
 
Advertisement

 
Advertisement
Top