Premium gas gives 2-3 more horsepower in turbo models (confirmed by Honda rep)

[planedoc]

It also won't get you higher mpg on premium so all things being equal, I don't see the justification to pay 25-30c per gallon extra for premium gas. This engine is not one of those that is designed to work best on premium fuel.

So regular gas at $2 per gallon and premium at 2.30ish, you have to see a 15% mpg improvement to justify using premium gas and there is zero evidence to support that.

You just need to try it in yours to find out. That's all I'm saying. Since I did have an engine that premium did improve the mileage enough to pay for itself in. If after trying it, your mileage does stay the same, then you'll know, and can be happy using regular.

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[NorthernEX-T]

It also won't get you higher mpg on premium so all things being equal, I don't see the justification to pay 25-30c per gallon extra for premium gas. This engine is not one of those that is designed to work best on premium fuel.

So regular gas at $2 per gallon and premium at 2.30ish, you have to see a 15% mpg improvement to justify using premium gas and there is zero evidence to support that.

Adminz need to delete this guy.

 

[planedoc]

Adminz need to delete this guy.

Oh he's alright, nothing like SteveGG. That guy drove me nuts!

 

[Manual]

You get 40.8-41 MPG out of a car that is rated 42 MPG on Highway?(under ideal driving conditions in the lab, mind you)

Where exactly do you drive?

I am curious to hear from anyone else who gets 41 mpg on the Honda Civic.

First 5 tanks average 42.3 (hand calculated)

/on the 6mt sedan 1.5t combo,.... Honda under-rated the EPA highway based off of what I'm seeing.

 

[NorthernEX-T]

Oh he's alright, nothing like SteveGG. That guy drove me nuts!

More bs with this guy I think. Your so calm and collected @planedoc Merry Christmas!

 

[ArnoldLayne]

Adminz need to delete this guy.

Yeah delete all the guys who don't sing kumbaya with you. That way you can go on peddling falsehoods...

 

[ArnoldLayne]

You just need to try it in yours to find out. That's all I'm saying. Since I did have an engine that premium did improve the mileage enough to pay for itself in. If after trying it, your mileage does stay the same, then you'll know, and can be happy using regular.

I should have a basis for trying premium fuel on a car the manufacturer clearly says regular gas will do and mentions no where that using premium fuel would improve performance or fuel efficiency. There has to be a basis for trying premium fuel and so far I don't meaningfully see any from available data.

Maybe in one of the upcoming fill ups, I'll try premium once for shits and giggles and see what happens (I don't expect any different outcome)

 

[Hondata]

Here is your basis from Honda:

http://news.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=9236-en:

In Civic Hatchback Sport and Sport Touring models that are designed to benefit from premium unleaded fuel, output jumps to 180 horsepower at 5,500 (6MT) or 6,000 (CVT) rpm. Torque output crests at 162 lb.-ft. between 1,700 and 5,500 rpm when equipped with the CVT. For Sport models equipped with a 6-speed manual transmission, the peak torque rating increases to 177 lb.-ft.​

Here is your basis from Hondata:

The ECU code and data relating to performance is the same as the in the lower horsepower turbo Civics.​

We suggest you take your car to a dyno and generate a reliable repeatable baseline on 87, then repeat once you have higher octane. As an engineer I am sure you appreciate the value of data over opinions. While you going through this process, first measure the knock control and ignition levels on 87, then repeat for the higher octane while doing your WOT dyno pulls.

 

[ArnoldLayne]

Here is your basis from Honda:

http://news.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=9236-en:

In Civic Hatchback Sport and Sport Touring models that are designed to benefit from premium unleaded fuel, output jumps to 180 horsepower at 5,500 (6MT) or 6,000 (CVT) rpm. Torque output crests at 162 lb.-ft. between 1,700 and 5,500 rpm when equipped with the CVT. For Sport models equipped with a 6-speed manual transmission, the peak torque rating increases to 177 lb.-ft.​

I see on the Civic Sport and Sport Touring models, Honda recommends 91 octane fuel. On the other hatchback models, 87 is the recommended fuel.

So this is basis from Honda...how? (unless you drive those specific two models Honda recommends premium fuel).

Pretty much all the Sedan and Coupe models on the Civic recommend 87 octane fuel. So I am still waiting on why 91 octane would serve better on these engines when the manufacturer recommends 87.

I'd heed to the manufacturer's recommendation to use 91 octane fuel if I were driving one of those two hatchbacks.

So how exactly is this relevant to the other sedan and coupe models?

I don't feel the need to take it to a dyne to test it on 87 and 91 octane fuels and I trust Honda already did that for me in their engineering lab before they recommended 87 octane fuel for my specific car. What defies logic is the claim that 91 is somehow better on models when Honda recommends 87.


Fuel Economy and Emissions Ratings

Ratings 2017 Civic Hatchback
(LX, EX, EX-L Navi) 2017 Civic Hatchback
(Sport, Sport Touring)
EPA Fuel Economy Ratings1 (city / highway/ combined) 30/39/33 (6MT LX only)
31/40/34 (CVT) 30/39/33 (6MT, Sport only)
30/36/32 (CVT)
Recommended fuel Regular unleaded (87 octane) Premium unleaded (91 octane)
CARB emissions ratings LEV3-ULEV125 or LEV3-SULEV30 (depending on model and/or state) ←

 

[_dc_]

I see on the Civic Sport and Sport Touring models, Honda recommends 91 octane fuel. On the other hatchback models, 87 is the recommended fuel.

So this is basis from Honda...how? (unless you drive those specific two models Honda recommends premium fuel).

Pretty much all the Sedan and Coupe models on the Civic recommend 87 octane fuel. So I am still waiting on why 91 octane would serve better on these engines when the manufacturer recommends 87.

I'd heed to the manufacturer's recommendation to use 91 octane fuel if I were driving one of those two hatchbacks.

So how exactly is this relevant to the other sedan and coupe models?

I don't feel the need to take it to a dyne to test it on 87 and 91 octane fuels and I trust Honda already did that for me in their engineering lab before they recommended 87 octane fuel for my specific car. What defies logic is the claim that 91 is somehow better on models when Honda recommends 87.


Fuel Economy and Emissions Ratings

Ratings 2017 Civic Hatchback
(LX, EX, EX-L Navi) 2017 Civic Hatchback
(Sport, Sport Touring)
EPA Fuel Economy Ratings1 (city / highway/ combined) 30/39/33 (6MT LX only)
31/40/34 (CVT) 30/39/33 (6MT, Sport only)
30/36/32 (CVT)
Recommended fuel Regular unleaded (87 octane) Premium unleaded (91 octane)
CARB emissions ratings LEV3-ULEV125 or LEV3-SULEV30 (depending on model and/or state) ←

Because from Hondata's testing, TESTING, not OPINION, the ECU code is the same for both the hatchback and other 1.5L turbo engines. What's good for the hatchback turbo Civic is good for ALL turbo Civics.

This is the part you conveniently omitted:

Here is your basis from Hondata:
The ECU code and data relating to performance is the same as the in the lower horsepower turbo Civics.

 

[ArnoldLayne]

Because from Hondata's testing, TESTING, not OPINION, the ECU code is the same for both the hatchback and other 1.5L turbo engines. What's good for the hatchback turbo Civic is good for ALL turbo Civics.

This is the part you conveniently omitted:

So let me get this. According to your logic

What's good for the hatchback turbo Civic is good for ALL turbo Civics.

And yet Honda specifically makes it a point to specify 91 octane fuel recommended on just two of their models and 87 for every other model they make?

I can see quite a few holes in that logic and I'll let you absorb that.

Testing on WHAT? Just throwing around words like 'TESTING' without any meaningful data on what the testing criteria was and what model it was performed on does not say anything.

And no disrespect to Hondata or what they do but I trust the engineers at Honda more than I trust Hondata when they specify 87 octane fuel as the recommended fuel on most of their models barring those two hatchback sport models.

I'd heed to what the manufacturer recommends for fuel. I've driven cars where the manufacturer recommends 91 octane fuel and I heed to their recommendation and that does not seem to be the case here at all.

And there is no advantage to using a premium fuel when the manufacturer says 87 will do.

 

[_dc_]

Testing on WHAT?

http://www.civicx.com/threads/premi...confirmed-by-honda-rep.828/page-9#post-130197

Did you even read this thread? Do you know who/what Hondata is?

 

[planedoc]

I should have a basis for trying premium fuel on a car the manufacturer clearly says regular gas will do and mentions no where that using premium fuel would improve performance or fuel efficiency. There has to be a basis for trying premium fuel and so far I don't meaningfully see any from available data.

Maybe in one of the upcoming fill ups, I'll try premium once for shits and giggles and see what happens (I don't expect any different outcome)

Then don't try it. I am simply relaying my experience with a completely different car, from a different company. It's a free country, do as you please. I don't care if you put diesel in it really pal.... or jet fuel... have a ball....

 

[17siturb0]

The only way a car benefits from higher octane is if the car manufacturers tunes it to be able to do so. Almost all factors come down to the factory tune. Whether it be bolt ons or octane performance gains. Although the higher the octane the cleaner and better it will combust.

 

[planedoc]

The only way a car benefits from higher octane is if the car manufacturers tunes it to be able to do so. Almost all factors come down to the factory tune. Whether it be bolt ons or octane performance gains. Although the higher the octane the cleaner and better it will combust.

Nope, higher octane doesn't burn cleaner. It just has more resistance to detonation. Whether it is top tier or not determines the amount of detergent in the fuel. Not the octane. Top Tier rated fuels, regardless of octane, contain 5 times the amount of detergent required by federal law

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