Please tell me why???

Dereck

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I posted yesterday asking about the JB4 Tuner...It was deleted....It says......Your thread JB4 TUNER. was deleted. Reason: Banned product ...
Why should that be?
Is there something i'm missing??
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arpypat

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I posted yesterday asking about the JB4 Tuner...It was deleted....It says......Your thread JB4 TUNER. was deleted. Reason: Banned product ...
Why should that be?
Is there something i'm missing??
Apparently, it's a garbage product for this gen Civic and the owner is a complete a-hole and got banbed from the forum too. See thread:
https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/anyone-running-the-jb4.41675/page-4
You're better off getting an ECU reflash via Ktuner or Hondata.
 

BoostedDreams

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Not sure about the si, but the people that run them on the CTR like it a lot. There’s no invasive flashing involved as it’s a piggy back system and is undetectable once removed. If you’re concerned about keeping your warranty, then JB4 is the safer option. Personally, i would go with Hondata for CTR, but Ktuner for the si
 

gtman

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I mentioned this in the thread that got deleted but KTuner and Hondata offer better tunes with excellent safety margin (base tunes). A piggyback works but it's far behind an actual ecu tune in terms of what it can do. It's the main reason 99% of tuned CivicX owners don't use a piggyback.

Also, I noticed that you double posted the original JB4 thread and this new one as well in different forums. Just curious why you'd do that.
 
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Dereck

Dereck

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I mentioned this in the thread that got deleted but KTuner and Hondata offer better tunes with excellent safety margin (base tunes). A piggyback works but it's far behind an actual ecu tune in terms of what it can do. It's the main reason 99% of tuned CivicX owners don't use a piggyback.

Also, I noticed that you double posted the original JB4 thread and this new one as well in different forums. Just curious why you'd do that.
What do you mean i double posted it?? In different forums...
 


MaxPower

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What do you mean i double posted it?? In different forums...
That means you posted the thread twice: here in the Si forum, and also here in the Engine/Exhaust/Transmission/Tuning forum. It's not a capital offense or anything, just frowned upon because it clutters up the forum unnecessarily.

EDIT: just wanted to add that I have no idea why your post was deleted. I don't see anything wrong with a discussion about the JB4. Generally, civicx folks seem to hate the JB4; Ktuner/Hondata are obviously superior tuning solutions. However, a piggyback might have some merit for certain users. I don't see the point in stifling discussion.
 
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gtman

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What do you mean i double posted it?? In different forums...
More or less what Max said. Here's my thing as a car forum admin of 20 years...

When you post a duplicate topic in two different forums, it not only clutters the board but also dilutes the quality of the discussion. Having the discussion in one single topic generally will get you the answers you need and it's easier to follow for members (compared to duplicate threads in different forums).
 

amirza786

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That means you posted the thread twice: here in the Si forum, and also here in the Engine/Exhaust/Transmission/Tuning forum. It's not a capital offense or anything, just frowned upon because it clutters up the forum unnecessarily.

EDIT: just wanted to add that I have no idea why your post was deleted. I don't see anything wrong with a discussion about the JB4. Generally, civicx folks seem to hate the JB4; Ktuner/Hondata are obviously superior tuning solutions. However, a piggyback might have some merit for certain users. I don't see the point in stifling discussion.
The reason why is like an oil viscosity discussion, this has been debated endlessly. Just speaking for myself, it is never a good idea to wire in a device that tricks the ECU when a tune directly to the ECU is the most efficient and the safest way of tuning a car. I think you will find this thinking in most car forums and among most car enthusiasts. Now should a discussion on this be banned? I think that is a little extreme, but if the consensus of most members is that this device is junk, than all you are doing is creating a thread that turns into a fight.

To your last point, piggy backing a device may have merit if you have a 1990's and older auto that can't be tuned any other way due to using EPROMs etc. On a modern auto, why would you want to piggyback a device between the ECU and the car's electronics when you can safely tune the ECU? That is the question
 

MaxPower

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The reason why is like an oil viscosity discussion, this has been debated endlessly. Just speaking for myself, it is never a good idea to wire in a device that tricks the ECU when a tune directly to the ECU is the most efficient and the safest way of tuning a car. I think you will find this thinking in most car forums and among most car enthusiasts. Now should a discussion on this be banned? I think that is a little extreme, but if the consensus of most members is that this device is junk, than all you are doing is creating a thread that turns into a fight.

To your last point, piggy backing a device may have merit if you have a 1990's and older auto that can't be tuned any other way due to using EPROMs etc. On a modern auto, why would you want to piggyback a device between the ECU and the car's electronics when you can safely tune the ECU? That is the question
To be clear: I understand and agree with the premise that an ECU tune is universally preferable to a piggyback. I'd never purchase a JB4 myself. However, I enjoy playing devil's advocate, so I'll point out that piggybacks are generally accepted and considered safe among certain auto enthusiast forums, and for certain modern turbo engines. They're discussed & debated ad nauseum, like ECU tunes are here. For example, check out golfmk7.com, or vwvortex. Here's a JB4 discussion with over 10,000 posts.

So I'm not sure why piggybacks seem to be a verboten discussion topic here on civicx. If the prevailing sentiment in the forum is that piggybacks are unsafe/sub-optimal, that's fine - but then I'd argue they should be discussed here. Better to warn/inform new owners who are completely unfamiliar with any sort of tuning options. Or former VW owners.

I've seen some folks express interest in a piggyback out of concern for their warranty. Let me preface this by saying that I have no idea if the following is accurate, but the argument goes like this: an ECU tune is detectable by the dealer - even if the car has been flashed back to stock. That is, if they're looking closely enough. On the other hand, a piggyback can't be directly detected, because nothing in the ECU has actually been altered. You might say the piggyback can be detected indirectly, because there's no other reasonable explanation for the wild swings in boost, AFR, etcetera, that are recorded by the ECU. But they can't prove that a piggyback was in use. Sans proof, the dealer would be more inclined to cover a repair under warranty.

Again, I don't know how much truth there is in that line of reasoning, but it seems to be what the pro-piggybackers believe.

tl;dr - hate them or love them, I see no good reason to limit discussion on piggybacks.
 

amirza786

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To be clear: I understand and agree with the premise that an ECU tune is universally preferable to a piggyback. I'd never purchase a JB4 myself. However, I enjoy playing devil's advocate, so I'll point out that piggybacks are generally accepted and considered safe among certain auto enthusiast forums, and for certain modern turbo engines. They're discussed & debated ad nauseum, like ECU tunes are here. For example, check out golfmk7.com, or vwvortex. Here's a JB4 discussion with over 10,000 posts.

So I'm not sure why piggybacks seem to be a verboten discussion topic here on civicx. If the prevailing sentiment in the forum is that piggybacks are unsafe/sub-optimal, that's fine - but then I'd argue they should be discussed here. Better to warn/inform new owners who are completely unfamiliar with any sort of tuning options. Or former VW owners.

I've seen some folks express interest in a piggyback out of concern for their warranty. Let me preface this by saying that I have no idea if the following is accurate, but the argument goes like this: an ECU tune is detectable by the dealer - even if the car has been flashed back to stock. That is, if they're looking closely enough. On the other hand, a piggyback can't be directly detected, because nothing in the ECU has actually been altered. You might say the piggyback can be detected indirectly, because there's no other reasonable explanation for the wild swings in boost, AFR, etcetera, that are recorded by the ECU. But they can't prove that a piggyback was in use. Sans proof, the dealer would be more inclined to cover a repair under warranty.

Again, I don't know how much truth there is in that line of reasoning, but it seems to be what the pro-piggybackers believe.

tl;dr - hate them or love them, I see no good reason to limit discussion on piggybacks.
I agree with you in that discussion about them should not be banned/deleted. Those who want to discuss the merits and demerits should be allowed to. Those who don't want to discuss should just avoid the post. I personally am not bothered if someone uses a piggyback device.

I am part of several forums I participate in, and each car community has it's own unique culture and quirks. I'm guessing Honda enthusiasts have very strong opinions on JB4 LOL
 


jonnyfast

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I also made a JB4 post a while back that got deleted for the same reason.

Personally, since I have no experience with tuning a car, I value learning and understanding the risks/rewards of different options. I’m okay with learning of a bias in a community, but would love to still discuss!
 

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I strongly considered the JB4 before I bought Ktuner. The JB4 piggyback does things that a tune doesn't, and a tune does things that a piggyback can't.

Two of the things that the JB4 does that I wish Ktuner did, is wait until your engine warms up before it "kicks in", and "drops out" if your car throws " a code".
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