1.5T Phearable for CVT

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If you've read myx's posts/threads, you would know why he's asking lol



So I'll start this with a bit of background - I just got into cars last year when I purchased my current civic. I always loved cars since the day I saw F&F Tokyo Drift. I also absolutely loved the CTR when it came out, but it was impractical for me to buy. I drive a bajillion miles a day for my commute, such that in 13 months of ownership I've racked up over 40k miles. Anyways, I got my sport touring CVT, said I'd only put the Type R wing on, and be done with it. Welllllll.... Yeah we all know how that goes. Now I'm way down the rabbit hole.

I haven't had the chance to learn to drive manual yet, but I've driven more than a few times in parking lots and neighborhoods. I give the above info because I would like to compare this to learning to drive manual, I think anyways. Basically, I have found the right timing to let off the gas, paddle shift, and quickly but very smoothly easy back into it and hammer down to scoot on without any lurches or weird grabs from the CVT! I don't have it down 100%, as I still get them sometimes if I'm really pushing it. It's different from tune to tune as well obviously depending on the throttle settings, but it's relatively the same area.

I think the best way to describe it is juust before you let off the gas completely is when you want to shift. If you let all the way off, it backs off and you kind of idle (what is this actually called when you're driving and you let off the gas, is there a name for it??) which doesn't shift as smoothly. Then you definitely don't want to stomp on it. I would say maybe half a second of steady slow increase in pressure then almost 1sec, maybe at 1sec, you can stomp on it and it just flies. Also, shifting out of first is best between 2500 and 3500 rpms, so this is really not great for digs in my experience. But if you can be driving in sport, downshift to S^3 doing around 40, you can pretty much hammer down the pedal to about 5200 - 5300 and then do the shifting I mentioned where you're not 100% off the gas when you press the button. It's really just timing the shift I guess, but it took me way too long I feel like to find the optimal shifting. I also try not to beat on the car, especially in sport with the paddles, and then definitely given the mileage I put on and plan to put on, so I don't go out and do any real dedicated testing driving the crap out of the car.

What would you say you've noticed in terms of the above information? This goes for anyone else too, I'm curious how people time their shifts and such with the CVT.
That's insane lol I thought I was the only one that actually used the paddles, like you mentioned I also like doing pulls putting it in S^3 from a 40 roll and just letting her eat it's a blast although when I'm at WOT and going into S^4 I like to just stay on it cause it stays in boost even if it's switching "gear" I have noticed from experimenting that letting the throttle off before switching gear you loose the boost, also I love using the paddles when carving some back roads makes me feel more connected with the car
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That's insane lol I thought I was the only one that actually used the paddles, like you mentioned I also like doing pulls putting it in S^3 from a 40 roll and just letting her eat it's a blast although when I'm at WOT and going into S^4 I like to just stay on it cause it stays in boost even if it's switching "gear" I have noticed from experimenting that letting the throttle off before switching gear you loose the boost, also I love using the paddles when carving some back roads makes me feel more connected with the car
I used the paddles when on some real twistes/uphills in the back county earlier this month and it made it so much fun switching into S and having it be in "manual." Really missing out if you don't use em!

Oh and I use em all the time to engine brake to use my regular brakes less.
 

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I used the paddles when on some real twistes/uphills in the back county earlier this month and it made it so much fun switching into S and having it be in "manual." Really missing out if you don't use em!

Oh and I use em all the time to engine brake to use my regular brakes less.
Very true haha that's cool though that other people use em, honestly I use them 100% of the time I'm driving makes the drive more engaging for me at least
 

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Holy crap I read this trying to find info on the Phearable but it's funny how some of us use the CVT paddles the same way! I've developed the habit when I had my 9th Gen Accord, it felt better because I had a Ktuner and I messed with my Vtec engagement and disengagement points. But onto the topic at hand because I'm on a TSP stage 1 and I find that aggressively tuned 21 basemaps are more fun. I just want to know how does it feel in the lower rpm range.
 

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This is VERY useful information and very descriptive. Thank you for this post. Pressing the gas pedal all the way down to the floor at first never seems to be the fastest way to accelerate. It goes against all we've learned from driving a a 'normal' automatic. That first initial push of the gas pedal is the difference from the acceleration seeming like it is delayed to taking off like a bat out of hell. The timing has to be just right and you only know it once you've have experienced it. The same applies with taking off from a dead stop.

Again, thanks for trying to explain it. I find it difficult too speak on. Someone has to have that 'aha' moment when they feel it at work.
Ye Olde Myxal two-step!!!!
 
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hondabandit

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I noticed this too. Paddles or no paddles, flooring the paddle makes the car freeze instead of going. Sometimes I can get the engine rpm to shoot up fast, but I still haven't gotten it consistent enough. With all that said, according to my dragy 0 60 times, Just flooring the pedal from dead stop still gets the car moving pretty quickly. It just doesn't feel too fast.
This is VERY useful information and very descriptive. Thank you for this post. Pressing the gas pedal all the way down to the floor at first never seems to be the fastest way to accelerate. It goes against all we've learned from driving a a 'normal' automatic. That first initial push of the gas pedal is the difference from the acceleration seeming like it is delayed to taking off like a bat out of hell. The timing has to be just right and you only know it once you've have experienced it. The same applies with taking off from a dead stop.

Again, thanks for trying to explain it. I find it difficult too speak on. Someone has to have that 'aha' moment when they feel it at work.
 

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on a TSP stage 1 and I find that aggressively tuned 21 basemaps are more fun. I just want to know how does it feel in the lower rpm range.
Unfortunately, so far there are no really solid comparisons of the TSP low end to the Phearable low end. All I'm hearing is how "smooth" it is.

As one of the first here to install the TSP 1 non-Si, I was also the first one to post extensively about the shortcomings of the TSP low end. It is WAY too soft compared to an aggressively tweaked Ktuner 21.

Unfortunately, from what I've heard and seen so far, the CVT version of the Phearable tune seems similarly setup to the TSP 1 down low. But, it does look to have a bit more oomph up top.

There is hope though for us non-Si low end lovers on the horizon. Ktuner should be releasing a new software build at some point that will allow us to adjust locked tunes throttle response. I also asked JR if he could open up part throttle turbo response. That should/would make a difference.
 
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I used the paddles when on some real twistes/uphills in the back county earlier this month and it made it so much fun switching into S and having it be in "manual." Really missing out if you don't use em!

Oh and I use em all the time to engine brake to use my regular brakes less.
Yessir this is why I have half my pads left after 40k miles! Lots of highway driving but still, that's a looong time for factory pads. Rotors look great haha!

Once I figured out that S keeps it in "gear" is when it was all over. Every morning there's a nice little S curve and you bet your behind I drop into S and use the paddles to blast through it.

That's insane lol I thought I was the only one that actually used the paddles, like you mentioned I also like doing pulls putting it in S^3 from a 40 roll and just letting her eat it's a blast although when I'm at WOT and going into S^4 I like to just stay on it cause it stays in boost even if it's switching "gear" I have noticed from experimenting that letting the throttle off before switching gear you loose the boost, also I love using the paddles when carving some back roads makes me feel more connected with the car
I'm glad to see someone else using the paddles to their potential. People are like oh isn't that bad for the transmission? Gee, I dunno, Honda DID design the car with them.... Lol.

I had some pretty bad buyer's remorse once I actually got more into car culture and started building the thing, as I really should have got a manual for more spirited driving and to feel more connected with the car. Now that I've figured out the paddles I think I actually like it more than I would a stick though... You can forget about driving whenever you want and just go, but then if you want to drive fun it's a quick drop into S and play with the paddles. I think it pulls ridiculously hard when you do this and catch it in the powerband, it's nuts! I love putting people back in their seat with it.

The one downside for me is I've literally developed a problem now. With the intake, downpipe, exhaust, and RMM, I can't help but just row through a few "gears" in S every single day. Not necessarily flooring it, although this ends up happening most times, but it's just so nice to shift through a few gears. The sound is straight up intoxicating for me.

These paddles man... I underestimated them for sure. You can have a great sounding exhaust on the CVT and still make it sound like a standard when you want, which was my one gripe after doing the catback - just that long exhaust note that doesn't really change once you get to the optimal RPM. Now I can be one of those "guys with civics at 3am" the younguns meme about these days. :rofl:

This is VERY useful information and very descriptive. Thank you for this post. Pressing the gas pedal all the way down to the floor at first never seems to be the fastest way to accelerate. It goes against all we've learned from driving a a 'normal' automatic. That first initial push of the gas pedal is the difference from the acceleration seeming like it is delayed to taking off like a bat out of hell. The timing has to be just right and you only know it once you've have experienced it. The same applies with taking off from a dead stop.

Again, thanks for trying to explain it. I find it difficult too speak on. Someone has to have that 'aha' moment when they feel it at work.
I've been reading your posts for quite a while on different tips and methods for driving the CVT, and I appreciate what you've put out there for the community. As someone else stated above, you shared a while back the Myxal Two Step and it was a fantastic read. I always have thought the CVT behaves a bit odd, but it is an extremely well designed piece of equipment once you get to know it!

I like how you explain that it is a difference of a delay to taking off like a bat out of hell. I started getting interested because it seemed like depending on the day, the car would pull harder sometimes. Depending on the rate of pressure increase to the pedal (how fast you put your foot down if you will, this is getting hard to describe haha) you can feel sluggish or it really shoots off like a rocket! It's key to have that first little bit of pedal press not be slamming it to the floor.

Honestly, I'd love to create a short video graphic to help explain this, but it's been about 10 years since I took an exploratory class in the computer animation shop, so I'm definitely out of my wheelhouse there.
 

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I've been reading your posts for quite a while on different tips and methods for driving the CVT, and I appreciate what you've put out there for the community. As someone else stated above, you shared a while back the Myxal Two Step and it was a fantastic read. I always have thought the CVT behaves a bit odd, but it is an extremely well designed piece of equipment once you get to know it!

I like how you explain that it is a difference of a delay to taking off like a bat out of hell. I started getting interested because it seemed like depending on the day, the car would pull harder sometimes. Depending on the rate of pressure increase to the pedal (how fast you put your foot down if you will, this is getting hard to describe haha) you can feel sluggish or it really shoots off like a rocket! It's key to have that first little bit of pedal press not be slamming it to the floor.

Honestly, I'd love to create a short video graphic to help explain this, but it's been about 10 years since I took an exploratory class in the computer animation shop, so I'm definitely out of my wheelhouse there.
Thanks for the kind words. To me, the CVT is THE PERFECT TRANSMISSION. FWD transmissions can only handle so much horsepower/torque. The CVT being week is strong enough to just about cross the point where the tires will slip and break loose. Unfortunately we don't have anyone that can tune the CVT TCU (Transmission Control Unit) to control this.

Look at this pdf ----> CVT - Tranmission Tuning Approach
Look at Figure #10, Letter 'D'. The CVT is just about perfect in every area with the exception to taking off from a dead stop. If we could reduce the take off time like what they have been trying to do at the 'D' section, the car would be an absolute beast. Even when they tuned it in the link I provided, the torque was too excessive and the tires just spun. You just have to dial it in. I'm a bit obsessed with focusing on the 'D' section. I've been trying to do everything I can to reduce the inertia of taking off from a dead stop. From larger downpipe, to reducing intake pressure ratio (Larger intake, less bends/turns, big airfilter, big maf sensor), short intake length, forced air into intake) to changing the gear ratio from installing different sized tire diameters. It's getting better. Quicker even..................


Now back to the Phearable show. I just want to purchase it and test but can't at the moment. So...just left to reading the results from the folks on the forums.
 
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disgraced.fk8

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Unfortunately, so far there are no really solid comparisons of the TSP low end to the Phearable low end. All I'm hearing is how "smooth" it is.

As one of the first here to install the TSP 1 non-Si, I was also the first one to post extensively about the shortcomings of the TSP low end. It is WAY too soft compared to an aggressively tweaked Ktuner 21.

Unfortunately, from what I've heard and seen so far, the CVT version of the Phearable tune seems similarly setup to the TSP 1 down low. But, it does look to have a bit more oomph up top.

There is hope though for us non-Si low end lovers on the horizon. Ktuner should be releasing a new software build at some point that will allow us to adjust locked tunes throttle response. I also asked JR if he could open up part throttle turbo response. That should/would make a difference.
I think I would agree it's a bit less punchy. However, John Vega did come out and say the torque is limited below 4k rpm for the CVT, so I'm sure that is playing into it, because I think low and mid range are both better than the Ktuner tunes. It's not quite as jumpy, but I'm really not sure that's good for the CVT.

I guess I would say this is the highest low end torque I'm comfortable with. I've accepted that the car is not meant to be drag raced from a stop, and I'll never brake launch a car unless it's a track car with a built trans. Using the Ktuner starter 21 with tweaks or even the stage 2 tune from Ktuner has more low end snappiness, but it's really just a matter of pressing the throttle harder.

I remember reading about your experience with TSP and that's how you described it - you have to put your foot down more to get the same result. Given that I can achieve the same acceleration, just with slightly more pressure on the pedal, I wouldn't say the low end is lacking, it's just about getting used to the response rate of the pedal.
 


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disgraced.fk8

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Thanks for the kind words. To me, the CVT is THE PERFECT TRANSMISSION. FWD transmissions can only handle so much horsepower/torque. The CVT being week is strong enough to just about cross the point where the tires will slip and break loose. Unfortunately we don't have anyone that can tune the CVT TCU (Transmission Control Unit) to control this.

Look at this pdf ----> CVT - Tranmission Tuning Approach
Look at Figure #10, Letter 'D'. The CVT is just about perfect in every area with the exception to taking off from a dead stop. If we could reduce the take off time like what they have been trying to do at the 'D' section, the car would be an absolute beast. Even when they tuned it in the link I provided, the torque was too excessive and the tires just spun. You just have to dial it in. I'm a bit obsessed with focusing on the 'D' section. I've been trying to do everything I can to reduce the inertia of taking off from a dead stop. From larger downpipe, to reducing intake pressure ratio (Larger intake, less bends/turns, big airfilter, big maf sensor), short intake length, forced air into intake) to changing the gear ratio from installing different sized tire diameters. It's getting better. Quicker even..................


Now back to the Phearable show. I just want to purchase it and test but can't at the moment. So...just left to reading the results from the folks on the forums.
Oh my... thank you for sharing this!!! :bow::bow:I grew up a few towns over from Worcester as well! I'll be diving into this when I have the time. Lots of good info from the skim I did.

I agree man this trans is actually friggen perfect with the paddles. Without them, it's still good, but you lose the ability to shift into S and then control your RPMs with the paddles. Also, it will automatically downshift when you slow down... it's literally foolproof. Anyone that knocks the Honda CVT needs to take one for a nice spirited drive, especially with the paddles.

And to anyone that still thinks the paddles don't do anything, there is DEFINITELY a learning curve. Took me a year and 40k miles. If you ask me, I'd say that when running a tune on a car with paddles it is required to get to know them and take the time to get the feel of it, just like you would with a manual.
 

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I remember reading about your experience with TSP and that's how you described it - you have to put your foot down more to get the same result. Given that I can achieve the same acceleration, just with slightly more pressure on the pedal, I wouldn't say the low end is lacking, it's just about getting used to the response rate of the pedal.
This is true. But I think if we get the opportunity to adjust overall throttle response AND adjust part throttle turbo responsiveness, we then might get a perfect balance of high, mid, and low feel.

I've bugged TSP and JR a couple times about opening those two settings on the locked tunes.

I understand why John and Derek are cautious with the CVT. I just think a couple small tweaks that let users liven up low end response a bit would be welcomed by a lot of us.

But, there's also no doubt TSP and Phearable are two fantastic tunes right out of the box. We're kinda blessed to have them for our CVT's.
 

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So apart from smoothness can any cvt phearable user tell AFRs at WOT & jump in kcon after WOT?
 
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So apart from smoothness can any cvt phearable user tell AFRs at WOT & jump in kcon after WOT?
I have the non-si, so k control rises automatically above 5300 rpm. Goes back down quick though so I don't see any issues so far!

Haven't seen anything greater than +/- 3% and +/- 9% just as with other tunes. Seems to be running great.
 

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it backs off and you kind of idle (what is this actually called when you're driving and you let off the gas, is there a name for it??)
The term you're looking for is probably "engine braking". When the throttle is not being used, the engine is still rotating while not combusting which causes engine speed (and thus vehicle speed) to gradually decrease. You can intensify the rate of deceleration by shifting down into a lower gear.
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