Overheating & What You Can Do To Stop It

17RGuy

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Brainstorming, why is this not a viable solution, or is it?

Lots of effort to change radiators, what about a fluid that does decent job of transfer (maybe not as good as 50/50 glycol & water?) but won’t boil over/turn to steam and expand with same characteristics rated to 375 degrees?

Not trying ho change path of current alternate radiator discussion and cost thereof but I’m not seeing too many minuses.

Thread on this here specifically for this product tried to say poor heat transfer, runs hotter, not convinced.

Anyone ever try this or know facts vs. “This one time at cooling camp...”

https://www.evanscoolant.com/how-it-works/
A bit of snake oil on that website. The best setup for a track specific car is straight distilled water (especially so you aren’t the asshole who leaves coolant on track and is terrible for track crews to clean up.)
Coolant is not going to magically make up for insufficient radiator capacity, air flow, etc.
A few guys on here run different mixtures of distilled water, Honda coolant, and specific water wetters or additives.
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RepyT

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A bit of snake oil on that website. The best setup for a track specific car is straight distilled water (especially so you aren’t the asshole who leaves coolant on track and is terrible for track crews to clean up.)
Coolant is not going to magically make up for insufficient radiator capacity, air flow, etc.
A few guys on here run different mixtures of distilled water, Honda coolant, and specific water wetters or additives.
Thanks, I suspected that but am opinion fishing. It’s odd stuff and sometimes tech advances can help overcome certain design shortfalls.
 

GraphiteAZ

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I just want to clarify that this is not true. The Tremec transmissions used in the Mustang GT350 & GT350Rs are a huge upgrade to the Mustang GTs Getrag transmissions...which are garbage. The GT350/GT350R receive a completely different transmission than Mustang GT cars.

The shift feel of the Tremec is better than the CTRs and is one of the best out there. I don't usually correct people, but I love my GT350R and it has been a solid car on track for me and is an absolute joy to drive!

Gt350s just trade the GT's excellent motor for an excellent transmission and a ticking time bomb in the voodoo.
 

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What about a giant radiator and some additional pumps to support an water to air Intercooler. Maybe two of them. I know the m3 has like 11.
 
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17RGuy

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I just want to clarify that this is not true. The Tremec transmissions used in the Mustang GT350 & GT350Rs are a huge upgrade to the Mustang GTs Getrag transmissions...which are garbage. The GT350/GT350R receive a completely different transmission than Mustang GT cars.

The shift feel of the Tremec is better than the CTRs and is one of the best out there. I don't usually correct people, but I love my GT350R and it has been a solid car on track for me and is an absolute joy to drive!
I knew I wasn’t completely wrong on my statement. I forgot these 350s (early model years of current generation) do have transmission issues... no trans coolers leading to quite a few failures. Just had to throw some more shade on those crowd killers ?.
 

17RGuy

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What about a giant radiator and some additional pumps to support an water to air Intercooler. Maybe two of them.
You have to remove ac for anything larger than the c&r race radiator.
At that point of removing ac, may as well go with a v setup.
IATs are not really a problem needing a water to air intercooler. It is coolant capacity and air flow being the biggest issues on this platform.
 

GraphiteAZ

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You have to remove ac for anything larger than the c&r race radiator.
At that point of removing ac, may as well go with a v setup.
IATs are not really a problem needing a water to air intercooler. It is coolant capacity and air flow being the biggest issues on this platform.

I remember, I believe Stephen Papadakis saying that he always uses Nascar radiators in any build he does as they always have more than enough cooling capacity.

I believe we may be at the end of cooling capacity with the C&R where radiator size has diminishing returns with the air flow and power level this car has. From there it may be a shift in efficiency of the engine. I'm not an engineer, but in certain conditions our air flow and cooling capacity seem maxed out.

Then it becomes a larger exhaust housing, giving a little more lag, a large downpipe/front pipe, and a tune that keeps the car near oem WHP.

An air to water intercooler won't mean much on a road course beyond just taking one more thing out of being in front of the radiator. However, you'd still need a heat exchanger for it.
 

17RGuy

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I remember, I believe Stephen Papadakis saying that he always uses Nascar radiators in any build he does as they always have more than enough cooling capacity.

I believe we may be at the end of cooling capacity with the C&R where radiator size has diminishing returns with the air flow and power level this car has. From there it may be a shift in efficiency of the engine. I'm not an engineer, but in certain conditions our air flow and cooling capacity seem maxed out.

Then it becomes a larger exhaust housing, giving a little more lag, a large downpipe/front pipe, and a tune that keeps the car near oem WHP.

An air to water intercooler won't mean much on a road course beyond just taking one more thing out of being in front of the radiator. However, you'd still need a heat exchanger for it.
Very much agree with your comments. Turbo efficiency has been mentioned before, and would be a great potential advancement if a more efficient turbo could be offered which should reduce heat significantly. This is why my only “power modifications” are c&r fmic and PRL stage 1 air filter/tube.
 

Gansan

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I think there might be a misconception going on here. Taken as a component, "turbo efficiency" would normally mean given a certain pressure and volume of exhaust gases driving the turbine, how efficiently the compressor pumps intake air to build boost pressure and volume.

If one is thinking how to have less heat generated, then we're actually talking about the efficiency of the engine itself. It is ultimately burning fuel and generating all the heat. The turbo heats up because it's got thousand degree exhaust *from the engine* running through it, not because of its inefficiencies.

A more efficient turbo would actually supply more boost pressure to the engine and allow for more fuel to be injected which will increase the heat that's generated.
 


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Lust

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I remember, I believe Stephen Papadakis saying that he always uses Nascar radiators in any build he does as they always have more than enough cooling capacity.

I believe we may be at the end of cooling capacity with the C&R where radiator size has diminishing returns with the air flow and power level this car has. From there it may be a shift in efficiency of the engine. I'm not an engineer, but in certain conditions our air flow and cooling capacity seem maxed out.

Then it becomes a larger exhaust housing, giving a little more lag, a large downpipe/front pipe, and a tune that keeps the car near oem WHP.

An air to water intercooler won't mean much on a road course beyond just taking one more thing out of being in front of the radiator. However, you'd still need a heat exchanger for it.
The radiators he's referring to are C&R radiators. You can see it in his Mk5 Supra video.
 

elmerzasty

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If one is thinking how to have less heat generated, then we're actually talking about the efficiency of the engine itself. It is ultimately burning fuel and generating all the heat. The turbo heats up because it's got thousand degree exhaust *from the engine* running through it, not because of its inefficiencies.

A more efficient turbo would actually supply more boost pressure to the engine and allow for more fuel to be injected which will increase the heat that's generated.
Even assuming that the IC always cools to ambient temp under WOT, a more efficient turbo would be able to make the same power with lower boost, and lower boost would equal less heat generated by the turbo itself, which is water and oil cooled and thus puts a lot of strain on the cooling system.
 

NinjaDog

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About to go down the cooling journey for track work. What should my first purchase be - pwr race rad or hks oil cooler?
 

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As we all know, the FK8 struggles when driven hard on track. It seems like everyone has the same story of "I overheated today and the ambient temps were 75F+" or "car cut power and I had to pull into the pits" or something along those lines. There are several things that can put the car into limp mode and those being, hot coolant temps, hot oil temps, or fuel starving. Unfortunately Honda did not adequately design the coolers on our car to handle heavy track use. In comparison, the FK8 radiator is half of the size of other hot hatches. Another thing to note is that the intregreated head design and outdated/inefficient turbo do no favors for cooling.

Related Threads:

C&R Radiator
C&R Oil Cooler
C&R Intercooler

Common Misconceptions:

Most people that try to address overheating will slap on a larger intercooler thinking that it will help. In most cases this will actually make the car more likely to overheat. Let me explain. By increasing the size of your intercooler, you restrict the amount of airflow that travels through the intercooler and into the radiator. The radiator can't do its job without having the appropriate amount of airflow. The job of the intercooler is to cool the charge air and not to cool the water. By consistently making more power due to lower intake air temps (IAT), you increase the thermal load. It can get to a certain point, especially on track, where those benefits actually become useless. Essentially what has now happened is you lowered IATs, great. Coolant temps now rise as a result and the car cuts your power anyways. At this point the car is in double jeopardy. You lost power that you wanted to gain through a larger intercooler and your coolant temps are also suffering because of it. If you feel like you need to upgrade your intercooler, stick with a tube and fin design. C&R makes the best intercooler in this category and I have a thread on that as well. You’ll want to avoid a bar and plate intercooler if your car sees serious track duty. Reason being is that they restrict too much airflow and are much heavier compared to tube and fin units. Once a bar and plate unit gets heat soaked, it becomes very hard to shed this heat. On track where the car consistently sees WOT, it’s more beneficial to have a tube and fin intercooler that will consistently shed that heat .

Another thing to avoid would be inefficient base tunes. By increasing the power through tuning, you increase the thermal load on the car exponentially. The car already struggles with its current setup stock and this is a common mistake people make. From experience, KTuner runs the coolest out of all the base tunes available. I HIGHLY recommend against ANY Hondata base tune. For reference, we had two owners running Hondata basetunes on their car here at Laguna Seca. Both cars overheated quite easily with a decent driver. Another owner and I advised them to revert to the stock tune. The temp gauge didn't budge the rest of the day and their times didn't suffer much at all. I'm not picking on Hondata but this proves how inefficient their base tunes are especially for track work.

Some owners make the mistake of switching oil viscosity to something excessively thick thinking it will help reduce temps. In fact, thicker oil INCREASES heat. The engine now has to work harder because the thicker oil creates more friction. In extreme cases you can lose a bit of power. These engines are built to very fine tolerances and perform very well with modern synthetic oils. A thinner oil can travel faster and dissipate heat easier than thicker oil. 0w-20 to 5w-30 should be enough for most people depending on driver and car setup. It is important to monitor your oil pressures to determine which weight is suitable for you. The rule of thumb is 10 psi for every 1,000 rpm. At high load for the FK8, you should see 55-65 psi. If your pressures are low, there is an issue with your setup and/or you need to move to a thicker oil. For serious track use it is very important to use an oil that will not sheer under high load or high temp. What can end up happening is a low grade 5w-30 oil sheering down to 0w-20 under high temp without you even knowing it. I’ve used Motul 300v 0w-20 on track and on the street with excellent results. I’m not guessing on this either. I sent my oil for analysis over at Blackstone and even with track use they recommend up to a 10,000 mile oil change interval.

Solutions:

The first thing we want to address is increasing the thermal capacity of your radiator and oil cooler. The stock radiator is so small it's laughable. Well why don't we just stuff the largest radiator possible? Unfortunately if the radiator core is too thick, it will decrease cooling efficiency. Finding the right core size to cool the car and also be efficient is extremely tricky. Most options on the market have been tried without any success. This includes: 2020 OEM, Koyorad, MASIV, CSF, and Spoon. Luckily for us there's one option, C&R/PWR. I've picked their brain's on almost everything cooling and have come to find that they can provide a radiator sufficient for serious track work. I won't harp on it too much on this thread but initial testing seems extremely promising from other owners and myself included. Essentially the C&R can shed heat like no other and is truly unique compared to everything else on the market currently. The coolant mixture can also be played around with depending on your climate. I live in California and can get away with the majority of my coolant being water with water wetter and some Honda coolant mixed in.

To help reduce the strain on the radiator, an oil cooler is necessary. The radiator design on our car is tasked with cooling not only the water but also the oil. By adding an auxiliary oil cooler, we can help reduce both ECT and OilT. The best designs currently available are ones mounted behind the driver side fog light. This way you can cut holes in the grill to allow air to pass through the oil cooler and the oil cooler only. There are some options that mount in the front of the radiator or require you to delete the brake duct. I HIGHLY recommend to stay away from these options. USR, GReddy, HKS, and C&R are all great options. Choose one that will suit your driving needs.

Radiator and oil cooler would be considered bare minimum and should be the first things you look into when tracking your car.

Now that we have a larger radiator, we want maximize the amount of air coming in. The more air that comes into contact with the radiator the better. When looking at the front bumper design, the only way to increase air into the radiator would be a larger grill. There are several options out there and even the 2020 models took note of this. If you can properly duct the air coming into the intercooler/radiator even better. Keep in mind, by increasing the opening, you will unfortunately increase drag/lift.

With more air coming into contact with the radiator you'll want to extract that heat as quickly as possible. The stock hood and even some vented hoods are not great at extracting heat and the air inside the engine bay becomes lazy. Poor airflow behind the radiator increase engine bay temps all across the board. You'l see higher IATs, ECTs, OilTs, etc. This is where a properly vented hood comes into play. My recommendation would be to have a vent right above the turbo. This will help the air escape the hottest parts, the radiator and turbo, as quickly as possible. Varis, Js, and Trackspec all have good options for this.

The icing on the cake will be isolating the heat sources in the car with thermal barriers. This includes: reflective tape, thermal wrap, thermal coatings, etc. A large source of heat will come from the factory downpipe/catalytic converter. The best solution here would be to run a catless downpipe with titanium wrap or an inconel shield. A good example would be the FK8 TCR where the downpipe has an inconel clam shell around it. I understand that not everyone wants to live that catless life, in which case I recommend a thermal coated catted downpipe like the RV6 Performance. Fair warning, it is not recommended to titanium wrap your cat. Wrapping the cat can lead to overheating and premature failure. To improve the hot air exiting the exhaust, a larger front pipe can help. This piece sits right below the oil pan and it is highly beneficial to titanium wrap this piece to minimize heat soaking into the oil pan. Thermal shielding on the intake parts can be beneficial too. If the intercooler doesn't need to work as hard, you wont have as much hot air exiting the intercooler as a result.

For those desperate enough, you can delete the AC condenser. This will allow a significant amount of air to flow through the radiator and also save weight. Not suitable IMO for a daily driver but definitely an option for a dedicated track car

My Personal Recommendations:

This is in order of importance.

Radiator: C&R street or track depending on your specific needs
Oil Cooler: C&R, HKS, GReddy, USR
Grills: Modified OEM, EVS, Js Racing, etc
Vented hoods: Varis, Js Racing, Trackspec hood vents
Catless Downpipes: RV6 ceramic coated, Dream Automotive with hard lagging, or PRL
Thermal barriers: DEI, Heatshield Products, Turbosource. You'll want to use reflective tapes, inconel shields, titanium wraps, etc where applicable.

There are some brute force ways of cooling the car like Ethanol, Meth injection, and upgraded turbo. I won't go into these options only because the average user probably doesn't want to dive that deep into the rabbit hole.

This is my basic recipe for solving the overheating problem. There's definitely multiple ways to solve it but I feel this is the most streamlined way of doing it. I'd love for this thread to be a place to discuss advanced ideas and theories to help further reduce temps. If you've done exactly everything above please share your experience with us.

I'll continue to update this post as more information becomes available or if I simply forgot to talk about something.
Thanks Lust for your recommendations.
If like I was confirmed from others and a Hinda tech, we can swap out our bumpers to 2020 own to avail the larger grille. Case in point, I was going replace front bumper per an insurance claim thus the new 2020 bumpers to swap in on my ‘18 fk8

However like you mentioned fk8 could use an oil cooler I had played with idea before the new 2020 bumper came out, but please confirm with me if you will:
Will the 2020 grille fit to either bumper or do I need to get whole new 2020 bumper with grille - (Assuming like you touched eith a bigger grill opening for more air, which creates more drag which iron mistaken would explain why the bumper layout or bottom splitter is slightly different to compensate for any additional drag)
Then to avail any venting fit oil cooler, will that driver side vented panel fit on do we need while 2020 bumper?
Or is there not a slit opening on 2020 driver side to allow air in there? Will that suffice enough air for oil cooler?

As far as bigger down pipe, is it the rv6 performance but is there a catted version for those of us in Calif ?
Then assuming we the need to titanium wrap oil pan just not downpipe , correct?

As for oil, did I make a mistake on switching to amsoil but I forget which grade it was I think it was 5w-20 xl?

Meanwhile I’m a week or so awaiting on C&R radiator-street version

Thanks for your advice.
Forrest
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