OFFICIAL Phearable stage 1.5 vs TSP stage 1 comparison

[jakdotdot]

I can run around using the stock intercooler on a warm (> 80F) day and do some punchy, WOT driving around town and keep k.cont stuck at .49. I’d be interested if someone who has both files did back to back pulls with one and the other to see if one holds k.cont better than the other on the same car, driven the same at effectively the same ambient temps.

From what I have personally seen over the last several weeks, TSP by far. It would consistently stay at .49 in day to day driving and wouldn't go up much after a quick first through third gear pull. *Map 3 sport mode

For Phearable's I've never even seen a .49. It usually sits in the low .5x and will go up to .6x to .7x after a single first to third pull. *Map 3

Obviously , ymmv if you have access to 93.

PRL Cai with injen IC

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[charleswrivers]

From what I have personally seen over the last several weeks, TSP by far. It would consistently stay at .49 in day to day driving and wouldn't go up much after a quick first through third gear pull. *Map 3 sport mode

For Phearable's I've never even seen a .49. It usually sits in the low .5x and will go up to .6x to .7x after a single first to third pull. *Map 3

Obviously , ymmv if you have access to 93.

PRL Cai with injen IC

Interesting. It does has a larger delta than TSP which is intriguing... I’d assume through a mix of running leaner (I’ve heard mention of comparisons showing this)and maybe with a smidge more timing. In the case of timing... that higher k.cont multiplied by the knock retard number is going to pull back the timing. Might have a slug more power initially... but afterwards k.cont is so high... it may be gone. I’ve done sparse data logging but it took either the third back-to-back 1-3 gear pull to get k.cont to come off .49 on a low/mid 80F day when I was fooling around awhile back. I was still using my V2 and this was awhile ago... but it settled in the upper .5x realm. Wild I could manage that on a stock ICer and you’re having it move so quickly on an aftermarket one.

I did a little experiment a few weeks back and mixed down to 91 octane while on the 23# basemap and during pure interstate driving. On the interstate I couldn’t manage to hold .49 at ~80 MPH. I’d creep around .52-.55. With 93 I couldn’t get it off of .49 driving (legally) hard on the street. I’m very glad all I have is 93 around me.

I appreciate you sharing.

 

[10thgenSIcoupeBLK]

Ok guys but which one pulls better ? Which one has more usable power tsp has all the power down low like a surge of power but dies off quick, I’m prl race tsp tuned, and I run a mixture of e85 in my tank. Now on a cold morning with the e85 thing pulls. But I’m not reving high cause there is. I point I usually by habit shift at 5200 rpms, and slam that pedal at 3400. So which tune is better ? I don’t mind torque coming in higher, to save the internals, I’m not worried about my clutch as I’ve been on tsp map 3 for 6 months and not a single slip up. But I’ve never done a burn out, I’ve never even used launch control. Not once. I only slam that pedal over 3k rpms

 

[DmK]

Ok guys but which one pulls better ? Which one has more usable power tsp has all the power down low like a surge of power but dies off quick, I’m prl race tsp tuned, and I run a mixture of e85 in my tank. Now on a cold morning with the e85 thing pulls. But I’m not reving high cause there is. I point I usually by habit shift at 5200 rpms, and slam that pedal at 3400. So which tune is better ? I don’t mind torque coming in higher, to save the internals, I’m not worried about my clutch as I’ve been on tsp map 3 for 6 months and not a single slip up. But I’ve never done a burn out, I’ve never even used launch control. Not once. I only slam that pedal over 3k rpms

To be honest easiest way is just to buy tune and tested by yourself. 100$ is not the end of the world, plus you will have an option to switch tunes when you getting bored with the way car drives...

 

[charleswrivers]

Ok guys but which one pulls better ? Which one has more usable power tsp has all the power down low like a surge of power but dies off quick, I’m prl race tsp tuned, and I run a mixture of e85 in my tank. Now on a cold morning with the e85 thing pulls. But I’m not reving high cause there is. I point I usually by habit shift at 5200 rpms, and slam that pedal at 3400. So which tune is better ? I don’t mind torque coming in higher, to save the internals, I’m not worried about my clutch as I’ve been on tsp map 3 for 6 months and not a single slip up. But I’ve never done a burn out, I’ve never even used launch control. Not once. I only slam that pedal over 3k rpms

I get it... though I don’t feel like TSP is dying off up top and there certainly incentive to let the car pull towards redline in a lower gear vice chasing peak engine torque by short shifting into higher gears. I do launch the car occasionally and no lift shift and my clutch is also fine after nearly 3 years of hard street use... all but a couple months being on some flavor of reflash.

Subjectively folks are calling it smoother and objectively it has a higher power delta than TSP. If k.cont can’t hold at .49 on a single 1-3 pull... on a car with an upgraded intercooler, its telling that it may well be at the bleeding edge on pump gas... and subsequent pulls are going to be increasingly down on power. An additional value of 2 from k.cont x knock retard would likely knock out any potential gain from more timing advance. I think it’s around 8 in the high load section and higher at lower loads (I’d have to look back for the tables) so going from .49 to .69 is going to give .2 x 8 is going to give 1.6 and I think it rounds to the nearest 0.5 or truncates

I’ve been running TSP for 2 years and went with it early. I don’t care for a smoother experience. I actually prefer the more rapid power delivery of the basemaps in some ways even over TSP. The potentially higher peak power is very enticing for Phearable though. I’d be interested in how k.cont is reacting for others in 1-3 pulls... especially with folks with stock intercoolers. There are folks that doesn’t have k.cont hold at .49 on TSP either so every car is a little different. It’s all in our driving style and loops we drive too. Most of my drive is 45 mph streets or less with some stop and go and curves. I’d favor responsiveness and consistent power delivery over delayed/smooth power that diminishes with use.

I’d be interested if anyone else, especially stock intercooler folks can share how their k.cont is reacting to the tune vs the other. The thread subjectively does make the tune out to be very good.

 

[gtman]

Ok guys but which one pulls better ? Which one has more usable power tsp has all the power down low like a surge of power but dies off quick

These type comments always confuse me. Mind you, I'm on the non-Si version of the TSP 1 but the basic tune design is the same.

Back when the TSP 1 first came out, most of the guys were coming from the KTuner Starter tunes. Those tunes, when set up aggressively, had terrific off the line and low rpm punch and a solid midrange. The problem was they fizzle out up top.

Along comes TSP and everyone said how much smoother the tune was down low. Smoother being a keyword for less lively. But the tune took off like a bat out of hell after 4500-5000 rpm.

Now peple are saying the opposite about TSP. Color me confused. For the record, my TSP tune feels soft down low and potent up top.

 

[charleswrivers]

Now peple are saying the opposite about TSP. Color me confused. For the record, my TSP tune feels soft down low and potent up top.

Same. The TSP tune pulls pretty happily to redline but feels like there is a ramp added to the turbo’s spool compared to the most aggressive basemap setting. I’ll acknowledge it was be a little twitchy on a cold start at low speed but I’ve always thought it was more of a rev hang thing. Enabling cruise cures any of my low speed woes w/o softening throttle response.

I don’t really get the purpose of short shifting even without still-rising power curve. The power curve is pretty flat up past 5000 RPMs... but short shifting 3rd to 4th gives up a 33% gearing torque advantage based on the ratio difference. 2nd to 3rd is 53%. Even if engine torque well lower up top... you’re still making the most power and doing the most work holding your gears and letting the little engine spin it’s little heart out. Or... you can just have your damn CVT do it’s magic trick I suppose. ?

I absolutely believe that Phearable tune has more top end on the Si. It got the larger delta on the dyno. And TSP has to be at least somewhat more conservative. Between a known .5# lower boost target, though I don’t know if one has a taper vs another... and with fueling and timing, they must have a more tweaked top. Given my stock ICer car has to be thrashed to get k.cont to come off of .49 down in hell-hot GA, I guess there’s some room to go a touch leaner or advance timing. Once k.cont starts moving though... (shrug) there goes the timing. That’s what I’m really interested in seeing as the difference between the two.

 

[10thgenSIcoupeBLK]

I run a little bit of e85 with premium and when I do. My k count is usually pinned at0.49, especially in really cold weather. I prefer to do pulls in 50 degree weather 70 or over and I don’t bother

 

[skottharrison]

Civic SI here.
Just finished the 30 minute "Re-learn" of the ECU after the Phearable 1.5 tune...
My initial response was the car feels more like a Honda of past, shifting feels ten times better and more natural, like how a manual car should feel. The power delivery is thrilling and welcome.

Sadly, I can't comment on the TSP tune, and I'm positive that there are many followers and believers in the TSP Tune for good reasons.

I can't comment on which tune is BETTER, but for those who want to take their Civic to the [next] level of enjoyment, I put my stamp of approval on the Phearable 1.5 tune. John has a fine attention to detail and to how Honda's should feel, and this tune will not disappoint.

John, thanks for putting in the hard work and hours...

Cheers,

 

[alxgravel]

Interesting. It does has a larger delta than TSP which is intriguing... I’d assume through a mix of running leaner (I’ve heard mention of comparisons showing this)and maybe with a smidge more timing. In the case of timing... that higher k.cont multiplied by the knock retard number is going to pull back the timing. Might have a slug more power initially... but afterwards k.cont is so high... it may be gone. I’ve done sparse data logging but it took either the third back-to-back 1-3 gear pull to get k.cont to come off .49 on a low/mid 80F day when I was fooling around awhile back. I was still using my V2 and this was awhile ago... but it settled in the upper .5x realm. Wild I could manage that on a stock ICer and you’re having it move so quickly on an aftermarket one.

I did a little experiment a few weeks back and mixed down to 91 octane while on the 23# basemap and during pure interstate driving. On the interstate I couldn’t manage to hold .49 at ~80 MPH. I’d creep around .52-.55. With 93 I couldn’t get it off of .49 driving (legally) hard on the street. I’m very glad all I have is 93 around me.

I appreciate you sharing.

Same here!

 

[phearable]

Civic SI here.
Just finished the 30 minute "Re-learn" of the ECU after the Phearable 1.5 tune...
My initial response was the car feels more like a Honda of past, shifting feels ten times better and more natural, like how a manual car should feel. The power delivery is thrilling and welcome.

Sadly, I can't comment on the TSP tune, and I'm positive that there are many followers and believers in the TSP Tune for good reasons.

I can't comment on which tune is BETTER, but for those who want to take their Civic to the [next] level of enjoyment, I put my stamp of approval on the Phearable 1.5 tune. John has a fine attention to detail and to how Honda's should feel, and this tune will not disappoint.

John, thanks for putting in the hard work and hours...

Cheers,

Skott, I am glad to hear your enjoying the phearable stage 1.5 tune!
Thanks for providing your feedback on the forum!

 

[MrLETTUCE]

I want to give Phearable a shot as soon as I get my kTuner unit back.
Anyone have any recommendations for what downpipe to use with God mode? I know crackles and stuff are childish but I like that sorta thing lol. I already have the MAP street exhaust and wondering how much louder a downpipe would make it. Don't want it too loud.

 

[phearable]

I want to give Phearable a shot as soon as I get my kTuner unit back.
Anyone have any recommendations for what downpipe to use with God mode? I know crackles and stuff are childish but I like that sorta thing lol. I already have the MAP street exhaust and wondering how much louder a downpipe would make it. Don't want it too loud.

A catless race downpipe is required for GOD mode.
We recommend the PRL v2 race downpipe which we sell on our website.

 

[10thgenSIcoupeBLK]

Ok guys so phearable sent me my tune took me an hour to upload it to my car since my lap top is old and I can’t use my Mac book, had to do it twice lol since ktuner has that stupid thing where you have to turn off the car wait....... then turn it back on wait...... and press okay, anyways here is my honest opinion on phearable vs tsp

so I uploaded it at about 5:45 pm needed gas to I headed to shell put in a little bit of e85 and upon driving I realized that smoothness everyone mentions, it does feel different from tsp, the power band is a smoother delivery and it takes the power up nicely until high rpms.....

Phearable prl race maf
Better mpg, now I can’t really say if it feels faster because it rained earlier today lol, and 1st 2nd 3rd and even 4th we’re not getting the best traction, vdc was off. But I did notice some slight torque steer from this tune that tsp didn’t have for me, but from what I gathered from the slight traction I may have gotten lmao, is that my butt dyno is saying it’s a littttttle bit faster.... can’t say for sure but it kinda seems that way, I’ll have a better thought on this tomorrow when it’s dry on the roads.

tsp prl race maf
Great tune, I averaged about 33 city and highway mixed in. Now I believe that if you wanna rip up your local reservoir tsp is perfect for it. You don’t need to rip it to red line at all, you can start boosting at 3k rpms and have a good pull by 5, the torque seems to be all in one place. Which is perfect for those back road cruises. Tsp does seem a little “ jerky” at times, where as phearable seems to be significantly smoother on shifts, so with that all being said

I really enjoy both tunes. If I could have map 2 be tsp map3 and map 3 be phearable map 3 and then map one would be stock equivalent tune, then I’d be very happy with that set
Up, ( I don’t know how to do it or if I even can ) but if you like doing hard pulls on the highway, phearable all day. It just seems if you’re into racing then phearable would be a better choice cause it utilizes the power band a lot better,

but if you’re a solo rider and just wanna demolish some back roads. Tsp, personally right
Now I’m all about phearable lol, but mind you all of this is just my opinion, don’t take anything I said too Literal it’s just what I’ve gotten from it alL.

if you’re thinking about buying the phearable JUST DO IT. The power band is perfect

 

[phearable]

Ok guys so phearable sent me my tune took me an hour to upload it to my car since my lap top is old and I can’t use my Mac book, had to do it twice lol since ktuner has that stupid thing where you have to turn off the car wait....... then turn it back on wait...... and press okay, anyways here is my honest opinion on phearable vs tsp

so I uploaded it at about 5:45 pm needed gas to I headed to shell put in a little bit of e85 and upon driving I realized that smoothness everyone mentions, it does feel different from tsp, the power band is a smoother delivery and it takes the power up nicely until high rpms.....

Phearable prl race maf
Better mpg, now I can’t really say if it feels faster because it rained earlier today lol, and 1st 2nd 3rd and even 4th we’re not getting the best traction, vdc was off. But I did notice some slight torque steer from this tune that tsp didn’t have for me, but from what I gathered from the slight traction I may have gotten lmao, is that my butt dyno is saying it’s a littttttle bit faster.... can’t say for sure but it kinda seems that way, I’ll have a better thought on this tomorrow when it’s dry on the roads.

tsp prl race maf
Great tune, I averaged about 33 city and highway mixed in. Now I believe that if you wanna rip up your local reservoir tsp is perfect for it. You don’t need to rip it to red line at all, you can start boosting at 3k rpms and have a good pull by 5, the torque seems to be all in one place. Which is perfect for those back road cruises. Tsp does seem a little “ jerky” at times, where as phearable seems to be significantly smoother on shifts, so with that all being said

I really enjoy both tunes. If I could have map 2 be tsp map3 and map 3 be phearable map 3 and then map one would be stock equivalent tune, then I’d be very happy with that set
Up, ( I don’t know how to do it or if I even can ) but if you like doing hard pulls on the highway, phearable all day. It just seems if you’re into racing then phearable would be a better choice cause it utilizes the power band a lot better,

but if you’re a solo rider and just wanna demolish some back roads. Tsp, personally right
Now I’m all about phearable lol, but mind you all of this is just my opinion, don’t take anything I said too Literal it’s just what I’ve gotten from it alL.

if you’re thinking about buying the phearable JUST DO IT. The power band is perfect

Thanks for posting your review/comparison!

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