OFFICIAL Phearable stage 1.5 vs TSP stage 1 comparison

[charleswrivers]

So....what do we attribute the faster feeling too? More ignition advance? Higher boost? A combo of the two?

Looking at the two datalogs, I am not seeing anything that jumps out at me. I'm a newbie! So I think I am missing the point.

I’m interested too. If Phearable has 1/2 pound higher target vs 24.5 for TSP... and TSP is enriched further for more timing... you’d figure it’d be too close to call. I don’t know whether there’s some boost taper on one vs the other though... and whether it affects the top end on one vs the other. I don’t notice a taper on my TSP. Their dynos look very, very similar.

New tune sounds interesting but I’m leaning towards a “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it” until there’s a back-to-back dyno in the same car to show some substantial advantage. Comparing dynos of different cars looks too close to call. Basemaps did seem to give a quicker spool that I did like. If this new tune is even more smooth... then smooth = slower... and be even further than the snappiness of the basemap I did like. I’m a couple weeks shy of using TSP Stage 1 for two full years... with the 24.5# map being my map 1 so my car starting on it by default. I’ve not encountered any issues with jerking and roughness but, at the point, 4/5 of the cars life has been on this tune so it’s practically all I’ve known except for a little stock break-in and about 6 months of basemaps. The pessimist in me things that there isn’t enough room for timing in pump gas left or CFM regardless of extra pressure for that tiny turbo to move for either one to be substantially different. It is interesting it’s subjectively reviewed better though... and I won’t discount it might well be so.

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[gtman]

Basemaps did seem to give a quicker spool that I did like. If this new tune is even more smooth... then smooth = slower... and be even further than the snappiness of the basemap I did like.

This is the one thing that has me perplexed.

The KTuner Starter maps with early spool enabled and aggressive part throttle and turbo response settings were incredible in city driving. Beyond snappy. Sadly though the top end totally fizzled out.

Along comes TSP's Stage 1 and everyone was singing it's praises. "Smoother than the KTuner maps, linear throttle, ballsy top end". Yet the one complaint I heard and I also agreed with was we missed the KTuner low end snappiness.

And now it's Phearable. Everyone is saying it has more top end power but is softer than TSP down low. I can't imagine anything much softer than the TSP at light throttle. Is this tune's low end stock-like? Depending on if you do mostly city or highway that may not be a positive IMHO.

 

[Gotch]

Low end power is there, you just have to wait for it... it’s a weird sensation, I’d describe it best as it feels like lag. Once woken up it pulls like mad, even as low as 2000rpm.

This doesn’t happen if revs are over 3k

 

[xile6]

Low end power is there, you just have to wait for it... it’s a weird sensation, I’d describe it best as it feels like lag. Once woken up it pulls like mad, even as low as 2000rpm.

This doesn’t happen if revs are over 3k

See thats the thing is the wait/lag.

I wish there was a tune that could have a street/freeway setting.
Alot of times on the streets and want some quick power down low.

 

[charleswrivers]

This is the one thing that has me perplexed.

The KTuner Starter maps with early spool enabled and aggressive part throttle and turbo response settings were incredible in city driving. Beyond snappy. Sadly though the top end totally fizzled out.

Along comes TSP's Stage 1 and everyone was singing it's praises. "Smoother than the KTuner maps, linear throttle, ballsy top end". Yet the one complaint I heard and I also agreed with was we missed the KTuner low end snappiness.

And now it's Phearable. Everyone is saying it has more top end power but is softer than TSP down low. I can't imagine anything much softer than the TSP at light throttle. Is this tune's low end stock-like? Depending on if you do mostly city or highway that may not be a positive IMHO.

Yeah. I’ve never seen a dyno of a TSP Stage 1 map 3 to a custom tune for an otherwise stock-ish car to know how much headroom is left/how conservative TSP Stage 1 hot-map is. Whether it’s overly rich for safety and that’s hurting power... it has well less timing or that claimed extra 1/2 pound of boost... that’s the only things given my limited knowledge that could make a difference. They’re locked tunes so we don’t get to see the magic and compare. It’s a shame... it’d be neat to see. They both throw out a 91/93 octane requirement so you know they’re hot and 87 would probably pull so much timing it run poorly.

I absolutely believe the slightly power delivery with each can be felt... in just kind of in that it’s-too-good-to-be-true camp that this thing could have substantially more power to where it’d be that noticeable on the old butt-dyno at the top. A linear climb could give the impression of more power on top due to less power down low... but the curves just look awful similar. I don’t see 1/2 pound of extra inefficient boost or an extra degree of timing being enough and a degree was supposed to yield something like 10 whp on the Ktuner ethanol enable... as it added a value of 5 and gained about 50 whp over the 23# basemap. I will say... my bit of data logging way back when did seem to hold a .49 consistently even with a little thrashing, so maybe there was a little room for a smidge of timing, especially in cooler weather.

We’ve had modded basemaps with over 23# and I don’t remember anyone getting more than a couple of degrees above stock with that boost before k.con took off and negated the added value. Odd too the targets were the same if TSP claims 24.5 and Phearable claims 25#. I don’t really get it. I may give this one a try eventually. At this point, the TSP feels like a pretty sure thing but I’m so used to what it is... I figure I’d notice any difference. I’d just need them to make an inverted map so 3 is 1. I do not want to have to swap to map 3 every single time on startup and am not going to leave my V2 plugged in. Without it it’d be a no-sell. Having full boost w/o having to use sport mode to shift to the other boost table is honestly the main advantage I see. I dislike having a lower boost target with sport mode disabled... and would be my only real criticism of my TSP tune. If this thing has better fuel efficiency... I’d say, again, it’s because it’s leaner or it adds additional timing... but at low load/RPMs for cruising.

We shall see. I’ll get to 7/31/20... give a 2 year update on the tuned reliability thread and see. I’ve pondered trading out next year but it does pretty much all I want to and I’d rather try and convince the boss to let me get car #5 or unload the present Z for another or let the old truck go... but I know I’ll miss either if they go.

 

[Gotch]

@charleswrivers , see my post in this thread on 2nd gear wheel spin. That’s not subjective, it is evidence of more power, at least at midrange. The PS As 3+ I bought are wider than the original AS Goodyear’s.

I personally believe that TSP runs too rich (shown on my data logs) and that is where the majority of the “extra” power is coming from.

Until I can run some back to back longer logs, that is all I’m going on.

Thanks for your information, I’m confused also.

 

[gtman]

I absolutely believe the slightly power delivery with each can be felt... in just kind of in that it’s-too-good-to-be-true camp that this thing could have substantially more power to where it’d be that noticeable on the old butt-dyno at the top. A linear climb could give the impression of more power on top due to less power down low... but the curves just look awful similar.

This is something I wanted to touch on without going too off topic here. Nothing scientific just some observations and questions for those with more tuning knowledge than me.

My first tune was with the Flashpro. I liked it because the top end felt really potent. The problem was the low end felt almost as anemic as the stock tune.

I switched to KTuner and after enabling early spool and going aggressive on throttle, turbo and ramp settings, I was amazed how jumpy the low end felt. Only to be disappointed by the top end.

With TSP, the tune feels like a better version of the Flashpro tune with that potent top end but at least the low end felt a bit better than Hondata. Still though, in around town driving and making quick low speed moves, nothing beats the KTuner setup.

So here's the questions. Is it the soft low end that makes the TSP and Phearable tunes feel so much more potent up top? And conversely, is all that front loaded low end snappiness of the KTuner tunes what makes it's top end feel so gutless?

A tune combining the low end of KTuner with the Phearable top end would be awesome but is it even possible? In other words, do you have to sacrifice power and response in one area to get it in the other?

 

[MaxPower]

Here is John's (creator of Phearable Tune) response to joining the forum.

Thanks for posting the response. But I have to ask: is Phearable a one-man operation? If so, I can understand this answer. Gotta keep working on the products and improving them. But if they have any sort of marketing team, this response seems awfully short-sighted. There are a ton of potential customers on civicx, and direct input from the tuner would go a long way towards securing future customers/sales. Just strikes me as odd.

 

[Sport-injected]

UPDATE:

I've been driving with this tune for a few weeks now and I'm still very impressed. I have been doing a lot of highway driving and this tune definitely pulls stronger than any other OTS map on the market. My fuel economy has been better than when I was running TSP. This car pulls hard on a cool night, still hard to believe its a 1.5L. On my weekend trip up to the Belleville area I had a G37S trying to run me down and i kept pulling away. Very satisfying.

This tune just keeps pulling hard up until redline. I had to pass a semi truck and a minivan on a dotted yellow line road, downshifted from 5th to 3rd and man it felt really healthy. Def hard to believe only 1.5 liters. Yes and gas mileage is def better.

 

[Gotch]

Thanks for posting the response. But I have to ask: is Phearable a one-man operation? If so, I can understand this answer. Gotta keep working on the products and improving them. But if they have any sort of marketing team, this response seems awfully short-sighted. There are a ton of potential customers on civicx, and direct input from the tuner would go a long way towards securing future customers/sales. Just strikes me as odd.

I was asked as well to promote this tune via social media....Let the tune speak for itself....

John Vega has intentionality asked for others to confirm this tune. I really wish for some more background on how this tune was developed.

That being said, it is a remarkable tune.

 

[gtman]

So take this for what it's worth coming from a guy with some marketing experience and nearly 20 years running a car forum...

Word of mouth is terrific, no question. But car guys and particularly car guys who join a forum are generally detail oriented. They want as much info as possible. Which is why having guys like Derek and JR and Doug posting here has been such a great thing for those of us interested in tuning.

If Phearable is indeed a one man operation, then it's totally understandable that he hasn't joined here. On the other hand, joining and spending 15-20 minutes on the forum daily could mean a ton of potential customers beyond what word of mouth can do.

 

[xile6]

Well i ordered it.
Ill see how it turns out.

 

[DHM85]

Well i ordered it.
Ill see how it turns out.

Same mindset on that as I'm getting mine in about 2 weeks. Heard enough, I like that I can maintain a stock feel in the low end while getting better MPG, I like that (in theory) with all that power and torque in the top it should be more gentle on stock clutch and I like that I get high boost on the top end without it feeling lethargic on higher RPM. Sounds more my style for my old ass.

 

[jandr272]

On the other hand, joining and spending 15-20 minutes on the forum daily could mean a ton of potential customers beyond what word of mouth can do.

I think you make very valid points, and it may just boil down to personality. I always find a discussion board for each of my hobbies. I know a lot of folks who just don’t like them.

Small business owners don’t always make the most profitable decision... and having that control might be why they became a small business owner.

 

[Friction]

Here is an overlay. Stock lines are very close until the top end where phearable's inexplicably drops out (Very deceptive practice to use that plot IMO) Looks like pulled timing for knock possibly due to heat soak? And the power/torque tuned is very close with phearable showing more gains in the 3400-4500 rpm range.

In conclusion the "softer mid range with more top end pull" is unfounded as these dynos seem to be comparable since the stock lines (minus the top end drop off) are almost identical. Therefore the phearable actually has a tad more midrange and the same topend.

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