OEM BBK: Acura RL 4 piston brake calipers

Hondanickx

Senior Member
First Name
Nick
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Threads
61
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
780
Location
Belgium
Vehicle(s)
1998 civic hatch , 2018 civic sedan 1.5T
Build Thread
Link
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
In your other post you mentioned the knuckle holes are 140mm so I guess that is correct.

The FK8 disc specs you said are correct and it makes sense.

I have a friend with a FK7 who wants a BBK and I also need one for the CRV. So I guess we will get one set from Ksystem.pro and see if it fits the CRV. If it does not, he will keep it for the civic. If it fits, we will get one more! No other solution I guess!

I will look if I can find the piston sizes from the Brembo/renault calipers to compare to CRV!
The renault Clio/megane calipers are 36/40mm .
Stock single piston calipers are 57mm . (SI , And regular civic)
CRV 1.5T eu spec front calipers Seals are the same seals as the US spec 2016 crv 5door EX cvt.
Which shows up on centric parts as 45.5mm and 45.5mm .crv calipers

57mm single piston = 2551mm²
4 piston 36/40mm = 1018+1256= 2274mm²
2 piston 45.5mm= 1625x2= 3251mm²

CRV vs Renault caliper = 3250 -> 2274 = -43% in piston area
Which means your disc needs to be 43% larger to have the same brake force.

Better off looking for calipers which use larger pistons.Crv piston area is huge.
None of the calipers that are made for the Civic will work for your crv because the brake bias will be off too much.Or you need to change the abs unit which controls the brake proportion/bias.

edit : The Lexus Ls430 monoblock or Acura RL calipers are much better suited for your crv they use 43mm pistons and are 11.9% smaller in surface area then crv calipers.Which means you need to use brake disc of 358mm to have the same brake force in the front.
Maybe there are some 4piston calipers out there that have 4 x 45mm pistons...
Sponsored

 
Last edited:

Anger

Senior Member
First Name
Nick
Joined
Sep 24, 2018
Threads
4
Messages
380
Reaction score
227
Location
Greece
Vehicle(s)
FK7,RW2,RD1,RD5,RE5,RU1,FK1,FN2,EP3
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
wow, thanks! Well I already know that the CRV brakes performance is epic, I want to change them only for looks. Maybe we should only be looking into how we can get the CRV calipers of the civic! I am not sure however that the pistons are THAT big...Also according to Brembo my CRV (MY2019) has Akebono front calipers, not Nissin! I will look more into this! Will also try to find the pistons dimensions of the D2 Racing calipers, which have been going around a lot.

Even if they are, are you sure that only 2 out of the 4 pistons should be calculated for overall surface area?
For example you say "4 piston 36/40mm = 1018+1256= 2274mm² " but that should be 2274x2=4548mm.
On the TAROX webpage (https://www.tarox.com/en/product_cat/competition-calipers/) they calculate the overall area x4 or x6 and not x2....For example caliper model B320-6 comes with a total surface of 3633mm both sides which is close to 3251mm of OEM! Plus, this caliper is stated for 50mm discs while Hondas have 47.2mm, which I think fits.

To add to the already useful information above, here are the specs for the Spoon 6pot calipers for the FK7:

Spoon Sports 6 pistons 36/34/27mm = 1018+908+572= 2498 mm² x2 = 4996mm with 312x25mm discs
 
Last edited:

Hondanickx

Senior Member
First Name
Nick
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Threads
61
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
780
Location
Belgium
Vehicle(s)
1998 civic hatch , 2018 civic sedan 1.5T
Build Thread
Link
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
wow, thanks! Well I already know that the CRV brakes performance is epic, I want to change them only for looks. Maybe we should only be looking into how we can get the CRV calipers of the civic! I am not sure however that the pistons are THAT big...Also according to Brembo my CRV (MY2019) has Akebono front calipers, not Nissin! I will look more into this! Will also try to find the pistons dimensions of the D2 Racing calipers, which have been going around a lot.

Even if they are, are you sure that only 2 out of the 4 pistons should be calculated for overall surface area?
For example you say "4 piston 36/40mm = 1018+1256= 2274mm² " but that should be 2274x2=4548mm.
On the TAROX webpage (https://www.tarox.com/en/product_cat/competition-calipers/) they calculate the overall area x4 or x6 and not x2....For example caliper model B320-6 comes with a total surface of 3633mm both sides which is close to 3251mm of OEM! Plus, this caliper is stated for 50mm discs while Hondas have 47.2mm, which I think fits.

To add to the already useful information above, here are the specs for the Spoon 6pot calipers for the FK7:

Spoon Sports 6 pistons 36/34/27mm = 1018+908+572= 2498 mm² x2 = 4996mm with 312x25mm discs
Well most of the lastest generation double piston calipers from honda are that big yes.In europe there's a Accord station wagon with k24 engine that has the same calipers and they also used a 320mm disc but i think that was 32mm thick.
And before that it was the Accord type R (CH1) that used double piston calipers which are 38mm and 42.8mm. (I have the accord type r calipers here for rebuilding .)

On the calculation i also thought i needed to do it X2 before but that wouldn't make sence if you compare it to Spoon,27won,and all other calipers .They would have double the surface area of a stock single 57mm piston. For example the stock civic single piston is 57mm which is 2551mm².
Compare that with spoon 2498mm² which is slightly smaller .They make up for that with a bigger brake disc of 312mm. Same with 27won BBK which is 36/40mm and i think a 320mm disc.

Tarox also mentions it is for both sides ,and i saw on the website of Honed who sells a bbk for older civics with porsche calipers that they also calculate only 1 side.
honed porsche caliper calculation .

According to the honda parts cataloge the 2019 crv 1.5T uses 45018TNYE00 caliper.Which is a nissin caliper.Brembo doesn't list everything yet of the crv as far as i have found .Nissin caliper crv

You can search the brembo aftermarket catalogue on dimensions for finding brake disc.(Been very usefull to me) brembo search catalogue

For example Brembo part nr 09.9547.33 is a 360mmx30mm 2 piece disc with aluminium hub from mercedes with total height of 49.5mm .The hub bore 67mm and pcd 5*112mm is not right but can easliy be modified.
This high performance disc can be found on (for example) autodoc for 300€.
I also found some discs for aston martin of 330mm x28 which can be found for only 99euro !
 
Last edited:

Anger

Senior Member
First Name
Nick
Joined
Sep 24, 2018
Threads
4
Messages
380
Reaction score
227
Location
Greece
Vehicle(s)
FK7,RW2,RD1,RD5,RE5,RU1,FK1,FN2,EP3
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
Maybe best way to built a totally custom BBK is to use two piece discs because as you say if the bolt pattern does not fit, maybe a bell with the correct pattern can be used.

I think anything can be applied on any car correctly if:

a) a caliper can be used without using spacers (almost impossible for OEM wheels).
b) caliper brackets of excellent quality can be manufactured for the specific knuckle/caliper combo (difficult).
c) discs that do not differ significantly from OEM height are used as to maintain OEM overall track (distance between wheels).
d) discs that do not differ at all from OEM bore are used (Honda is 64.1mm). For instance I already use rings for my aftermarket wheels and I get vibrations over 200kmh/120mph. I would not like to use rings for brake discs. Does not sound safe.
e) pistons surface is not hugely different from OEM. I still have my doubts as to if pistons on one side only should be calculated or all 4 or 6 should be calculated.
f) pistons have seals. Not sealed pistons will surely end up stuck because of dirt.
g) pad surface is similar to OEM. If not, brake disc must be bigger to increase friction surface as well as reduce temperatures.


This is why I would not buy any BBK kit, new or retrofit much like the topic here unless I was absolutely certain about dimensions and fitment. The discs/rotors height is very important also, its not only about disc diameter. D2 racing has aftermarket solutions for almost any Honda and rather cheap as well. Yet they do not mention anywhere detailed specifications of their calipers (pistons size) and discs (disc height).
 

Hondanickx

Senior Member
First Name
Nick
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Threads
61
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
780
Location
Belgium
Vehicle(s)
1998 civic hatch , 2018 civic sedan 1.5T
Build Thread
Link
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
I would upgrade your discs with better ones that have more cooling capacity and upgrade brake Pads also.This along with high performance tires would give a great brake upgrade.

Vibration doesn't come from center rings if you have the right ones.Could also be tires or the car itself.
Maybe use aluminium ones ,they are more precies.
 


swanarg

TheSwanwar
First Name
Anwar
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Threads
19
Messages
210
Reaction score
182
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Vehicle(s)
2018 Honda Civic Hatchback Sport
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
Maybe best way to built a totally custom BBK is to use two piece discs because as you say if the bolt pattern does not fit, maybe a bell with the correct pattern can be used.

I think anything can be applied on any car correctly if:

a) a caliper can be used without using spacers (almost impossible for OEM wheels).
b) caliper brackets of excellent quality can be manufactured for the specific knuckle/caliper combo (difficult).
c) discs that do not differ significantly from OEM height are used as to maintain OEM overall track (distance between wheels).
d) discs that do not differ at all from OEM bore are used (Honda is 64.1mm). For instance I already use rings for my aftermarket wheels and I get vibrations over 200kmh/120mph. I would not like to use rings for brake discs. Does not sound safe.
e) pistons surface is not hugely different from OEM. I still have my doubts as to if pistons on one side only should be calculated or all 4 or 6 should be calculated.
f) pistons have seals. Not sealed pistons will surely end up stuck because of dirt.
g) pad surface is similar to OEM. If not, brake disc must be bigger to increase friction surface as well as reduce temperatures.


This is why I would not buy any BBK kit, new or retrofit much like the topic here unless I was absolutely certain about dimensions and fitment. The discs/rotors height is very important also, its not only about disc diameter. D2 racing has aftermarket solutions for almost any Honda and rather cheap as well. Yet they do not mention anywhere detailed specifications of their calipers (pistons size) and discs (disc height).
I was very cautious to upgrade my bbk but with the price I paid I was willing to try it out. I ended up spending about 600$ on everything. No vibrations no issues what so ever after about 30k miles. I get a squeal every now and then from the pads I’m running but Thets it. Brakes hard and feels balanced. I spoke with the guys at fast brakes about it in regards to bias etc, they know their stuff and assured me the difffernce on this kit was negligible. They’ve been doing Frankenstein BBks on track Honda’s for awhile. But with all mods it’s about what each person is looking for. Lots of interesting info goin on in this thread. Thanks for the contributions.
 

Anger

Senior Member
First Name
Nick
Joined
Sep 24, 2018
Threads
4
Messages
380
Reaction score
227
Location
Greece
Vehicle(s)
FK7,RW2,RD1,RD5,RE5,RU1,FK1,FN2,EP3
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
I would upgrade your discs with better ones that have more cooling capacity and upgrade brake Pads also.This along with high performance tires would give a great brake upgrade.

Vibration doesn't come from center rings if you have the right ones.Could also be tires or the car itself.
Maybe use aluminium ones ,they are more precies.
The car is relatively new so there are no aftermarket drilled discs yet in OEM dimensions. Brembo has "in development" their OEM replacement discs, but they are not drilled. EBC released drilled discs marketed for this model but they are 315mm instead of 320mm.

I used the provided Japan Racing rings but they are plastic. I think aluminum ones would be better

EDIT: That Swedish site looks interesting, they have a full used engine to get as a project :p
 
Last edited:

Hondanickx

Senior Member
First Name
Nick
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Threads
61
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
780
Location
Belgium
Vehicle(s)
1998 civic hatch , 2018 civic sedan 1.5T
Build Thread
Link
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
The car is relatively new so there are no aftermarket drilled discs yet in OEM dimensions. Brembo has "in development" their OEM replacement discs, but they are not drilled. EBC released drilled discs marketed for this model but they are 315mm instead of 320mm.

I used the provided Japan Racing rings but they are plastic. I think aluminum ones would be better

EDIT: That Swedish site looks interesting, they have a full used engine to get as a project :p
Yeah i noticed some sites saying they where 315mm and others 320mm .Maybe a different model in the uk ?
That swedish site has gotten me some very cheap parts before .Downside is i need to pay bank transfer cost .The japan racing line isn't the best in quality ,could be the wheels as wel.

At first i also wanted to install the BBK but since i mostly use the car for daily driving and fun car tracks i decided i just did a minor front brake upgrade.

Hence one of the reasons i'm going to swap in the dual piston caliper of the Accord type-r is they use the 98 integra type r brake pads which can be found everywhere and are much larger then the stock ATE ones .The staggered piston design off the ATR calipers also helps with the brake pads wearing more even.
I'm also going to use a 300x28mm disc from mercedes which has internal cooling pillars instead of plain straight vanes,and is made from high carbon steel.
And offcourse some great brake pads like pagid RS42.
So you don't need a lot of "fancy" upgrades to improve overal braking performance.
 
Last edited:

Hondanickx

Senior Member
First Name
Nick
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Threads
61
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
780
Location
Belgium
Vehicle(s)
1998 civic hatch , 2018 civic sedan 1.5T
Build Thread
Link
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
I think we need a sticky thread with all the information gathered into .:)
Last night i was reading about the Cadillac CTS-V calipers and how somebody else found out they are almost the same as Tesla Uses on their Model S .The bolt spacing is the same as honda's 140mm on both tesla and CTS-V.
Both use a 355mm rotor only tesla uses a 2part bolted caliper and CTS-V has a monoblock caliper.Both also have a different rotor offset .Tesla 70mm and CTS-V 49.5mm.The CTS-V also has a 6piston caliper that uses a 370mm rotor.
 

Jakupdoesnt

Member
First Name
Jacob
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Threads
2
Messages
17
Reaction score
13
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicle(s)
Civic Hatchback Sport
Country flag
Honda Civic 10th gen OEM BBK: Acura RL 4 piston brake calipers 7B7BB389-4F1B-46A0-A802-6C0AD52A0DF3
Honda Civic 10th gen OEM BBK: Acura RL 4 piston brake calipers E34DE587-42B4-4249-AF11-35107353897F

Ended up running into an issue. My wheels won’t go on anymore I have brake clearance issues (it won’t even go on it’s just rubbing completely). I’m running an 18x9.5 38 offset wheel. I have to run spacers in order for this to work. I’ve been looking at Enkei PF01S 18x9.5 38 or even 45 offset anyone know if those will make for brake clearance? I need about an inch spacers in order for this to fit onto my car.
 


hobby-man

Senior Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Threads
50
Messages
2,867
Reaction score
2,739
Location
GTA
Vehicle(s)
2021 WRX STi, 2018 Sport Touring Hatchback (sold)
Build Thread
Link
Country flag
7B7BB389-4F1B-46A0-A802-6C0AD52A0DF3.jpeg
E34DE587-42B4-4249-AF11-35107353897F.jpeg

Ended up running into an issue. My wheels won’t go on anymore I have brake clearance issues (it won’t even go on it’s just rubbing completely). I’m running an 18x9.5 38 offset wheel. I have to run spacers in order for this to work. I’ve been looking at Enkei PF01S 18x9.5 38 or even 45 offset anyone know if those will make for brake clearance? I need about an inch spacers in order for this to fit onto my car.
Why would another set of 18x9.5 +38 fit any differently than your current set? Unless the face is super convex?

I think your issue is wheel width. You either need something like a +20 offset by using spacers or an 8" or 8.5" wheel with ~ +35.
 

Hondanickx

Senior Member
First Name
Nick
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Threads
61
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
780
Location
Belgium
Vehicle(s)
1998 civic hatch , 2018 civic sedan 1.5T
Build Thread
Link
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
The face is too convex
The Face is indeed too convex .You'll run into clearance issues.
OP runs 17x8 et38 and clears the same calipers but has straighter spokes.
So you'll either need to look for a straight or concave face wheel.
 

Jakupdoesnt

Member
First Name
Jacob
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Threads
2
Messages
17
Reaction score
13
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicle(s)
Civic Hatchback Sport
Country flag
Honda Civic 10th gen OEM BBK: Acura RL 4 piston brake calipers 26951AC3-CC0D-471E-853E-A0E79B2DBA94

The PF01S look like a great option from the face of the wheel, I just think about running something different and not over 2K for wheels.
 

Hondanickx

Senior Member
First Name
Nick
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Threads
61
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
780
Location
Belgium
Vehicle(s)
1998 civic hatch , 2018 civic sedan 1.5T
Build Thread
Link
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
26951AC3-CC0D-471E-853E-A0E79B2DBA94.jpeg

The PF01S look like a great option from the face of the wheel, I just think about running something different and not over 2K for wheels.
Maybe it's a good idea to make a template ,so you could easly know if the brake setup fits inside whatever wheel you wanna buy.
 


 


Top