OE 2020+ cooling on track - more data

AdamD19DFK8

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Curious how a larger turbo with stainless steel housings running less boost would hold up at low power ~350hp. It is a shame this car can't keep up with cooling on stock power unless it's a fast track.

Need to get a CO2 sprayer or at least a water sprayer for the straight aways. Jackie Ding uses one on his A90, looks silly hitting your wipers to get it to spray but it helps.
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Curious how a larger turbo with stainless steel housings running less boost would hold up at low power ~350hp. It is a shame this car can't keep up with cooling on stock power unless it's a fast track.

Need to get a CO2 sprayer or at least a water sprayer for the straight aways. Jackie Ding uses one on his A90, looks silly hitting your wipers to get it to spray but it helps.
I’ve wondered about a water sprayer. There would seem to be ample room for one. I’d love to see one of the aftermarket companies come up with something that could be tied to one of the blank switches in the cabin. Ideally the blank under the cruise control on the wheel.
 

Josh May

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Has anyone tried the Mishimoto secondary race radiator? I wonder how much this would help with cooling.
 

spyder57

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Has anyone tried the Mishimoto secondary race radiator? I wonder how much this would help with cooling.
Iirc everyone that's tried it has stated it's completely and utterly useless. There's no airflow through the radiator in that location so the results are not surprising.
 

Josh May

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Good to know!! Thanks for the input
Iirc everyone that's tried it has stated it's completely and utterly useless. There's no airflow through the radiator in that location so the results are not surprising.
 


fatherpain

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Awesome, informative post @apexaddict, thank you.

A little disappointing to have confirmation the cooling issue wasn’t resolved on the 2020 model.. but not surprising.

The good news is a cooling solution does exist, albeit at a substantial cost. Guessing around $5k or so:

C&R/PWR race radiator
Vented hood
Open grill (2020’s update might be enough)
Acuity reverse hoses
Oil cooler TBD - recommend waiting to see what C&R comes up with.
DEI wrap on oil cooler lines
C&R Intercooler or equivalent
Heat shield, wrap or hard lagging on downpipe
 
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teders

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Awesome information @apexaddict, i love hearing from folks who actually track their 10th gens. It's very odd to me that the K20CA runs so much hotter than the L15B7. I attended 3 HPDE days this year that were smack dab in the middle of summer, two of which were VERY hot days, and the Si's ECT temp never budged past 205. One of those days i laid down my fastest time on Summit Main, a 1:29.5, and i think it was in the 90's that day.

Also, super interested in your thoughts on the ST43 pads. I'm having a set cut for me, after the HPS 5.0 and Powerstop Track Day pads couldn't stand up to consecutive laps. I've got HPS 5.0's in the rear and they are still ~50% life after probably 15 track days. Nice thing about FWD cars is that the rear pads last forever...
 

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Apexaddict, just had another thought about your oil and water temp numbers. Personally, I have had other cars run over 270 for oil temps with no harm done but never 230 for coolant temps. If it is the coolant temps that are the issue that cuts power or causes limp mode, then a bigger more efficient rad and potentially a vented hood might be the better way to go than an oil cooler. Also, wouldn't an oil cooler be more likely to void a warranty than a rad or hood? (just thinking about a pressure drop with the extra flow to the cooler)

BTW teders, you will be much happier with the ST43 pads.
 

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Did you end up changing out the OEM brake fluid to any race high temp brand? I plan to run my car at Mid Ohio next Friday. Got Hawk DTC-60 on order and other recommend changing out brake fluid for no boil. Any recommendation as well for wheel protectant or just try to void that? Thanks
 

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Did you end up changing out the OEM brake fluid to any race high temp brand? I plan to run my car at Mid Ohio next Friday. Got Hawk DTC-60 on order and other recommend changing out brake fluid for no boil. Any recommendation as well for wheel protectant or just try to void that? Thanks
I switched to Motul RBF 600 dot 4. No fade after a hard day of HPDE/TT. Completely burned through my pads, but never felt brake fade.
 


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I have a bit of a hard time trusting those LogR oil temperature numbers. If you’re hitting up to 275F for the oil temp, wouldn’t that be grounds for engine damage? I thought engine oil starts breaking down at around the 275F range.
 

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I have a source at Mobil 1 who says their oil (and I am sure many others) has no issue with temps of well over 300F. OTOH, not so sure that Honda or other engines are happy with oil temps that high. Certainly dino oil will cook at those temps.

Interesting point is that my LS6 engined Corvette routinely saw oil temps of 270 even with an oil cooler and had no issue over 8 seasons of track use and no drop in performance. Also Nissan puts the 370 into limp mode at oil temps of 280F

The issue is that the car does not actually have an oil temp sensor and the number is derived and not actually measured. I did notice that the OP also had very high (IMO) water temps hitting 230F. I am certainly not used to water temps that high and wonder what factors Honda uses to put the car in limp mode or alternatively cut power output. If it is derived oil temp then an oil cooler makes sense but if it is more dependent on water temps, a bigger rad and vented hood makes sense.
 

CivilciviC

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Awesome, informative post @apexaddict, thank you.

A little disappointing to have confirmation the cooling issue wasn’t resolved on the 2020 model.. but not surprising.

The good news is a cooling solution does exist, albeit at a substantial cost. Guessing around $5k or so:

C&R/PWR race radiator
Vented hood
Open grill (2020’s update might be enough)
Acuity reverse hoses
Oil cooler TBD - recommend waiting to see what C&R comes up with.
DEI wrap on oil cooler lines
C&R Intercooler or equivalent
Heat shield, wrap or hard lagging on downpipe
People need to stop thinking the radiator is the problem. It's not. The factory one is more than capable of doing the job.

The problem is there is zero air flow going to the radiator in the first place. A radiator entirely works on air movement. Putting a bigger radiator into a spot that does not flow will only make your wallet lighter and little more.

People need to also critically analyse what they buy. Just because a company makes it, does not mean it's going to work.

The problem with the oil cooler is that it is also drastically undersized. I came from the 370z world where overheating was a track day issue also. An oil cooler the size they sell for the civic does literally nothing on the 370. Granted, the 370 has two extra cylinders, but it does not have a turbo that hit's 1000F. But for an oil cooler to work on the 370, it was drastically bigger than the shitty little HKS unit. Anything the size of the HKS unit did nothing on that car and it had better front airflow than the CTR.

The issue is the front bumper is shit. Putting an oil cooler behind the fake side vents is not sufficient.
 

fatherpain

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I’ve had good experience with the PWR Race Radiator in the short time it’s been on the car in place of the Koyorad, which I’d venture to guess is the equivalent of the OEM 2020 version.

Ran Streets of Willow, which is a slower turn heavy track in 103F with very little opportunity to cool down on a straight. Was able to complete all sessions and temp gauge maxed out at around 65% with heater running.

This past Sunday, drove Big Willow with the upgraded C&R core for HKS oil cooler and was able to complete (3) 30 minute 15 lap sessions in 83F. The temp gauge never moved off what it normally reads when I’m daily driving. Didn’t run the heater.

Contrast that to the last Big Willow event I attended, temps were hovering at 70-75% in the similar 82F with heater on full blast. That was with a Koyorad and normal HKS oil cooler core. It was also before the J’s grill, vented hood and acuity reverse hoses were installed.

Will be returning to Streets of Willow again Oct 31. Hoping it will be hot again, to see what impact the C&R oil cooler has.

There is a chance the car will be tuned by then.

I’m extremely skeptical whether the car would have performed similarly with the OEM or Koyorad, even with the other cooling mods on the car.

That said, it won’t hurt to try the car as-is to see if cooling is even an issue before going all out with cooling mods.

I’m just OCD and don’t want any issues when I’m out there, even if it’s overkill for my current skill level. :)

Definitely agree more air flow helps. A more open grill paired with a vented hood helps get that heat out of the engine bay. Can see waves of heat escaping the hood even when just doing the daily drive and stopping at a red light.


People need to stop thinking the radiator is the problem. It's not. The factory one is more than capable of doing the job.

The problem is there is zero air flow going to the radiator in the first place. A radiator entirely works on air movement. Putting a bigger radiator into a spot that does not flow will only make your wallet lighter and little more.

People need to also critically analyse what they buy. Just because a company makes it, does not mean it's going to work.

The problem with the oil cooler is that it is also drastically undersized. I came from the 370z world where overheating was a track day issue also. An oil cooler the size they sell for the civic does literally nothing on the 370. Granted, the 370 has two extra cylinders, but it does not have a turbo that hit's 1000F. But for an oil cooler to work on the 370, it was drastically bigger than the shitty little HKS unit. Anything the size of the HKS unit did nothing on that car and it had better front airflow than the CTR.

The issue is the front bumper is shit. Putting an oil cooler behind the fake side vents is not sufficient.
 
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Dave B

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People need to stop thinking the radiator is the problem. It's not. The factory one is more than capable of doing the job.

The problem is there is zero air flow going to the radiator in the first place. A radiator entirely works on air movement. Putting a bigger radiator into a spot that does not flow will only make your wallet lighter and little more.

People need to also critically analyse what they buy. Just because a company makes it, does not mean it's going to work.

The problem with the oil cooler is that it is also drastically undersized. I came from the 370z world where overheating was a track day issue also. An oil cooler the size they sell for the civic does literally nothing on the 370. Granted, the 370 has two extra cylinders, but it does not have a turbo that hit's 1000F. But for an oil cooler to work on the 370, it was drastically bigger than the shitty little HKS unit. Anything the size of the HKS unit did nothing on that car and it had better front airflow than the CTR.

The issue is the front bumper is shit. Putting an oil cooler behind the fake side vents is not sufficient.
Agree completely that a bigger rad with no airflow is not going to work much better. OTOH, the addition of a vented hood is going to help even a regular radiator work somewhat better.

Unfortunately having cooling that is good enough to prevent limp mode may not be good enough to prevent loss of power as mentioned by the OP. I wish Honda would be more forth coming with information on this issue.
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