apexaddict
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- Joined
- Aug 14, 2017
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- 13
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- Location
- Nashville, TN
- Vehicle(s)
- 2020 Civic Type R
- Thread starter
- #1
Hi all,
Just wanted to report out some of my findings on the 2020+ OE cooling system and try to help give people a more definitive answer to the question of: do the changes made to the 2020+ cars solve the overheating issues of the early cars on track?
The short answer to this question is no. If you buy a 2020+ car, you would still be wanting to replace the radiator and especially add an oil cooler if you are wanting to do a lot of track days.
Some context: I was at the SCCA Time Trial Nationals this past weekend. It's 4 days of track time: one day of testing to set grid position, a day of 20 minute time attack sessions, a day of track sprint courses, and one final day of 3-lap time attack sessions. It's a lot of track time and frankly it's a great event. It takes place at NCM Motorsports Park, which is approx. 3.15 miles long and highly technical. Ambient temps were pleasant, hovering around the mid 60s in the morning and getting up to the mid 70s in the afternoon, and it was overcast of the weekend. Ideal weather, in other words.
Now, I had been at NCM for the first time in the CTR in August, and it was 85-90 degrees and quite humid. I did not run any sort of data and simply followed the OE temp gauge. At the time, all I was able to confirm was that the car was not going into limp mode at all, even during a 30-minute torture session (with the heat blasting). I figured this was good, since many folks have reported limp mode with the earlier cars, but I had no what the numbers actually were.
Now I do. Using the LogR app, I was able to track actual temps, and the numbers you get after even ONE lap are a little bit alarming. One caveat here is that I believe the oil temp that is being presented is not a real reading (since the 2020+ still doesn't have an oil temp sensor), but is rather extrapolated from a combination of... something. Oil pressure vs. coolant maybe, I don't know. Either way, if it's even remotely accurate, it's not promising.
This is the video of my class-winning lap on Sunday. You can watch the temps change on the LogR interface from the end of the warm-up to the end of the timed lap:
Coolant and oil temps start around 190 for both, with coolant going to around 215 and oil around 250 after ONE lap. That's it. All it takes is one hot lap to put the car into questionable temp territory. For the 20 minute sessions, I was seeing coolant temps touch 230 and oil temps above 275 before starting my cooldown lap.
For the record, the engine is completely stock and the car has very few mods:
- 18x9.5 Apex EC7s
- 265/35/18 Bridgestone RE71R
- ST43 front pads w/ Motul RBF600 fluid
- RV6 rear sway bar
- Alignment with camber pins pulled
The other thing to note here: the car increasingly pulls timing/boost to compensate for the increasing temps in a linear fashion. This is probably old news to some people. However, on my data, the car is roughly 3-5mph slower in every straightaway after the first lap, and 5-7mph slower in every straight on the second, and after that I stopped caring. Again, it is a one lap wonder; for competition purposes, you get one lap to put in a good time, and after that you won't get the time back until the car cools fully. And this is in 65-75F temps.
It's a bit of a bummer but if I plan to stick with the car further for TT, the cooling system will definitely be high on the list of upgrades - even for a 2020. I think if you want to just go to HPDEs and learn and don't care about times, you'd be fine to buy a 2020 and be cautious about cooldown laps, and also don't touch anything on the engine that won't cool it better. In fact, I'd be very surprised if a tune is even worth anything on track, since the increased temps from higher boost/leaner fuel trim is likely only going to exacerbate the heat issues, and you'll be down on power just as quickly - if not quicker - than a stock CTR.
That's it for now. Hopefully this will help answer the question for some folks. I did get a card from someone at C&R while I was there, so I may be calling them sooner rather than later.
Just wanted to report out some of my findings on the 2020+ OE cooling system and try to help give people a more definitive answer to the question of: do the changes made to the 2020+ cars solve the overheating issues of the early cars on track?
The short answer to this question is no. If you buy a 2020+ car, you would still be wanting to replace the radiator and especially add an oil cooler if you are wanting to do a lot of track days.
Some context: I was at the SCCA Time Trial Nationals this past weekend. It's 4 days of track time: one day of testing to set grid position, a day of 20 minute time attack sessions, a day of track sprint courses, and one final day of 3-lap time attack sessions. It's a lot of track time and frankly it's a great event. It takes place at NCM Motorsports Park, which is approx. 3.15 miles long and highly technical. Ambient temps were pleasant, hovering around the mid 60s in the morning and getting up to the mid 70s in the afternoon, and it was overcast of the weekend. Ideal weather, in other words.
Now, I had been at NCM for the first time in the CTR in August, and it was 85-90 degrees and quite humid. I did not run any sort of data and simply followed the OE temp gauge. At the time, all I was able to confirm was that the car was not going into limp mode at all, even during a 30-minute torture session (with the heat blasting). I figured this was good, since many folks have reported limp mode with the earlier cars, but I had no what the numbers actually were.
Now I do. Using the LogR app, I was able to track actual temps, and the numbers you get after even ONE lap are a little bit alarming. One caveat here is that I believe the oil temp that is being presented is not a real reading (since the 2020+ still doesn't have an oil temp sensor), but is rather extrapolated from a combination of... something. Oil pressure vs. coolant maybe, I don't know. Either way, if it's even remotely accurate, it's not promising.
This is the video of my class-winning lap on Sunday. You can watch the temps change on the LogR interface from the end of the warm-up to the end of the timed lap:
Coolant and oil temps start around 190 for both, with coolant going to around 215 and oil around 250 after ONE lap. That's it. All it takes is one hot lap to put the car into questionable temp territory. For the 20 minute sessions, I was seeing coolant temps touch 230 and oil temps above 275 before starting my cooldown lap.
For the record, the engine is completely stock and the car has very few mods:
- 18x9.5 Apex EC7s
- 265/35/18 Bridgestone RE71R
- ST43 front pads w/ Motul RBF600 fluid
- RV6 rear sway bar
- Alignment with camber pins pulled
The other thing to note here: the car increasingly pulls timing/boost to compensate for the increasing temps in a linear fashion. This is probably old news to some people. However, on my data, the car is roughly 3-5mph slower in every straightaway after the first lap, and 5-7mph slower in every straight on the second, and after that I stopped caring. Again, it is a one lap wonder; for competition purposes, you get one lap to put in a good time, and after that you won't get the time back until the car cools fully. And this is in 65-75F temps.
It's a bit of a bummer but if I plan to stick with the car further for TT, the cooling system will definitely be high on the list of upgrades - even for a 2020. I think if you want to just go to HPDEs and learn and don't care about times, you'd be fine to buy a 2020 and be cautious about cooldown laps, and also don't touch anything on the engine that won't cool it better. In fact, I'd be very surprised if a tune is even worth anything on track, since the increased temps from higher boost/leaner fuel trim is likely only going to exacerbate the heat issues, and you'll be down on power just as quickly - if not quicker - than a stock CTR.
That's it for now. Hopefully this will help answer the question for some folks. I did get a card from someone at C&R while I was there, so I may be calling them sooner rather than later.
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