Noob Questions/Recommendations re: Civic Si 2018 clutch

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Hi all -

I'm brand new to this forum (appreciate the approval), and I have some questions and concerns about my 2018 Civic Si, and I'm hoping for some recommendations for what I should/can do about it.

Background about me: my first car was a 99 Civic LX (manual) that was 10 years old at the time that I learned to drive right off the lot. I also leased a 2013 Civic Si for 3 years that I drove when I lived in Chicago (so obviously dealt with city traffic and highway miles when I worked out in the suburbs). I had no troubles with either transmission or clutch for that matter. I decided to purchase a 2018 Civic Si because I loved my 2013 one and didn't want to lease again due to uncertainty of where I would be living at the time (in grad school) and was concerned about mileage. Purchase date was right around Christmas in December of 2017. I have kept up with regular service maintenance, even sometimes getting some things slightly ahead of time if I know I'm going on a road trip and wanted to be preventative.

Fast forward to about 2 weeks ago, I decided to take my car in to get an oil change, cabin filter replacement, and the 18K package done. However, I will say, I was at 23,000 miles but not past the oil change date or mileage, etc. Also, about 80% + of those miles are highway miles due to a number of 8-hour road trips (visiting family, etc.). The other 20% is related to city driving (not Chicago anymore), some of which is traffic-related. I'm being so detailed because I knew something felt off, but hoped the maintenance package, filter replacement, and oil change would take care of it. I also was going on a 2 week road trip (yes, it's long, I can work on my dissertation from anywhere which is nice :) ), from PA to NC, then NC to IL, then IL back to PA. On my way to NC, I knew something was DEFINITELY wrong. Now, I said noob for a reason, I don't know all the terms/language that most/all of you do, but what I can say is:
1. I was continuously kicked out of my cruise control (which is paramount for me as I have had a few speeding tickets...I know, I know, but it's always me passing someone because they're being an idiot, I swear!);
2. I noticed issues with the engine revving much higher and faster once already in the appropriate gear. For example, if I was in 4th gear and only at about 2500rpms and stepped on the gas just as one normally would, it would shoot up to 4000-5000rpms and then quickly go back down. It did this in 4th, 5th, and 6th gear. I'm not sure if this would be what is considered slipping? But I could tell something was off. It felt like the entire ride was just one weird, jerky, up and down bumpy ride.
3. Side note, when I was at the dealership prior to my trip, the woman reviewing billing mentioned to me that we may need to start discussing transmission fluid around 30K. So, I made an appointment with a friend I knew since middle school at the Honda in Charlotte. I spoke with both him and his boss, and his boss test drove it with me. Of course, in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear, there wasn't much to show. It did happen once in 4th, but we couldn't go any faster. I discussed it with them both at length, and even though my friend mentioned to his boss to consider the clutch, the boss thought everything was probably fine and so we chose to do the transmission fluid early, thinking that might have something to do with it.
4. WRONG. I left NC and barely got past the VA state line when my car just felt like it was pulling me into a lower gear. Best part is I was going DOWNHILL - and semi trucks were passing me because I could not get it to go above 40mph, then 30mph, then 20mph, and I couldn't even make it to the next exit. I pulled over ON THE MOUNTAIN SIDE and asked my friend who just looked at my car my best option. He said to call Roadside Assistance and that it was the clutch and that all would be covered under warranty. Even the tow driver, who came an hour later, said the same thing. After another hour of driving (back into NC I might add), I got to the dealership and they immediately said there's no way it's the clutch, yada yada.
5. JOKES. He was like okay, just kidding, it's 100% the clutch. He said I had to pay $660 to open the transmission to see if it was faulty or worn. And to replace it, it would cost $3600. And it wouldn't be ready for days. In the end, I didn't have many options, allowed him to open it up, rented one of their rental cars, am currently sitting in Chicago with plans to drive the rental back to NC to pick up my car. I got them to lower it to $1800 total, but that's because there are no aftermarket parts to even use because it's so new, they claim they only cover if it's defective or if it's worn within 6 months, but in my opinion, how is it not defective if it's already worn in under 6 months?
6. Anyway, I know I wrote an effing novel and I apologize, but here's where I'm at now. They want $1800 for a clutch I am 98% positive I did not wear down suddenly, the warranty says it won't cover "normal wear and tear" but to me that isn't normal so shouldn't it be covered? Even if it isn't exactly within the 1 year because of when it was purchased, it is still under the 3 year. They're also saying I may have to pay $1000 for the tow, which is insane because to my knowledge, everyone told me it was covered! I could've called my insurance company for a free tow if I knew I'd have to pay. Plus it's close to $200 for the rental.

Any thoughts on this?? I've seen a few threads mentioning the "weak clutch" in the recent model year Si's. The guy also told me they redesign it like every year or two which is also why it isn't available aftermarket, but that also says to me, it's probably not as effective if they have to keep redesigning it or they're just waiting to screw you for your money because they know you'll have to come to them. My dad is considering lemon law and wants to sell it and go with another make all together (he worked on and off for Honda for years in sales and he is just pissed because he thinks it's shady and he never knew about their loophool). Anyway, I've seen some people mention going from Si to VW. I was debating on just leasing (from now on lol) a Jetta GLI 6-speed. Thoughts on any of the above??? I would REALLY appreciate any feedback!!


THANKS SO MUCH,
Melissa

Honda Civic 10th gen Noob Questions/Recommendations re: Civic Si 2018 clutch clutch 2.PNG


Honda Civic 10th gen Noob Questions/Recommendations re: Civic Si 2018 clutch clutch 1.PNG
 

caspar21

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my 18 si clutch started slipping early on but i am tuned. the initial tune was very mild so i consider the stock clutch very weak.
put an aftermarket clutch in for less money than honda charges and use the car forever.

for overall consideration. there are 2 serious show stopper weaknesses with the 1.5. the clutch and the rods. the si doesn't have the rod weakness due to harder factory rods. so if you aftermarket the clutch then the car will last forever.
all thats left to deal with are minor issues. all cars have those.
my thought:better the beast you know.
 

SDAlexander8

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Finally someone posted a damn pic of this worn clutch issue.

Question for OP: (please don’t get offended, I'm not trying to insult your driving. I’m trying to figure out what is causing this clutch wear issue people are having)

People has said that mashing the throttle in 5th and 6th gear on the highway to pass aggressively at a low rpm can strain the clutch. Do you do this? High boost at low speeds in Overdrive gears is bad apparently.

Also are you rev matching when downshifting?
 

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Wow! That’s one fried clutch.

I’m most interested in knowing how the engagement point was. Up high or down low in regards to the pedal travel. What was the freeplay, etc
 
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Neddih

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Hi all -

I'm brand new to this forum (appreciate the approval), and I have some questions and concerns about my 2018 Civic Si, and I'm hoping for some recommendations for what I should/can do about it.

Background about me: my first car was a 99 Civic LX (manual) that was 10 years old at the time that I learned to drive right off the lot. I also leased a 2013 Civic Si for 3 years that I drove when I lived in Chicago (so obviously dealt with city traffic and highway miles when I worked out in the suburbs). I had no troubles with either transmission or clutch for that matter. I decided to purchase a 2018 Civic Si because I loved my 2013 one and didn't want to lease again due to uncertainty of where I would be living at the time (in grad school) and was concerned about mileage. Purchase date was right around Christmas in December of 2017. I have kept up with regular service maintenance, even sometimes getting some things slightly ahead of time if I know I'm going on a road trip and wanted to be preventative.

Fast forward to about 2 weeks ago, I decided to take my car in to get an oil change, cabin filter replacement, and the 18K package done. However, I will say, I was at 23,000 miles but not past the oil change date or mileage, etc. Also, about 80% + of those miles are highway miles due to a number of 8-hour road trips (visiting family, etc.). The other 20% is related to city driving (not Chicago anymore), some of which is traffic-related. I'm being so detailed because I knew something felt off, but hoped the maintenance package, filter replacement, and oil change would take care of it. I also was going on a 2 week road trip (yes, it's long, I can work on my dissertation from anywhere which is nice :) ), from PA to NC, then NC to IL, then IL back to PA. On my way to NC, I knew something was DEFINITELY wrong. Now, I said noob for a reason, I don't know all the terms/language that most/all of you do, but what I can say is:
1. I was continuously kicked out of my cruise control (which is paramount for me as I have had a few speeding tickets...I know, I know, but it's always me passing someone because they're being an idiot, I swear!);
2. I noticed issues with the engine revving much higher and faster once already in the appropriate gear. For example, if I was in 4th gear and only at about 2500rpms and stepped on the gas just as one normally would, it would shoot up to 4000-5000rpms and then quickly go back down. It did this in 4th, 5th, and 6th gear. I'm not sure if this would be what is considered slipping? But I could tell something was off. It felt like the entire ride was just one weird, jerky, up and down bumpy ride.
3. Side note, when I was at the dealership prior to my trip, the woman reviewing billing mentioned to me that we may need to start discussing transmission fluid around 30K. So, I made an appointment with a friend I knew since middle school at the Honda in Charlotte. I spoke with both him and his boss, and his boss test drove it with me. Of course, in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear, there wasn't much to show. It did happen once in 4th, but we couldn't go any faster. I discussed it with them both at length, and even though my friend mentioned to his boss to consider the clutch, the boss thought everything was probably fine and so we chose to do the transmission fluid early, thinking that might have something to do with it.
4. WRONG. I left NC and barely got past the VA state line when my car just felt like it was pulling me into a lower gear. Best part is I was going DOWNHILL - and semi trucks were passing me because I could not get it to go above 40mph, then 30mph, then 20mph, and I couldn't even make it to the next exit. I pulled over ON THE MOUNTAIN SIDE and asked my friend who just looked at my car my best option. He said to call Roadside Assistance and that it was the clutch and that all would be covered under warranty. Even the tow driver, who came an hour later, said the same thing. After another hour of driving (back into NC I might add), I got to the dealership and they immediately said there's no way it's the clutch, yada yada.
5. JOKES. He was like okay, just kidding, it's 100% the clutch. He said I had to pay $660 to open the transmission to see if it was faulty or worn. And to replace it, it would cost $3600. And it wouldn't be ready for days. In the end, I didn't have many options, allowed him to open it up, rented one of their rental cars, am currently sitting in Chicago with plans to drive the rental back to NC to pick up my car. I got them to lower it to $1800 total, but that's because there are no aftermarket parts to even use because it's so new, they claim they only cover if it's defective or if it's worn within 6 months, but in my opinion, how is it not defective if it's already worn in under 6 months?
6. Anyway, I know I wrote an effing novel and I apologize, but here's where I'm at now. They want $1800 for a clutch I am 98% positive I did not wear down suddenly, the warranty says it won't cover "normal wear and tear" but to me that isn't normal so shouldn't it be covered? Even if it isn't exactly within the 1 year because of when it was purchased, it is still under the 3 year. They're also saying I may have to pay $1000 for the tow, which is insane because to my knowledge, everyone told me it was covered! I could've called my insurance company for a free tow if I knew I'd have to pay. Plus it's close to $200 for the rental.

Any thoughts on this?? I've seen a few threads mentioning the "weak clutch" in the recent model year Si's. The guy also told me they redesign it like every year or two which is also why it isn't available aftermarket, but that also says to me, it's probably not as effective if they have to keep redesigning it or they're just waiting to screw you for your money because they know you'll have to come to them. My dad is considering lemon law and wants to sell it and go with another make all together (he worked on and off for Honda for years in sales and he is just pissed because he thinks it's shady and he never knew about their loophool). Anyway, I've seen some people mention going from Si to VW. I was debating on just leasing (from now on lol) a Jetta GLI 6-speed. Thoughts on any of the above??? I would REALLY appreciate any feedback!!


THANKS SO MUCH,
Melissa

clutch 2.PNG


clutch 1.PNG
Considering this sounds like this isn't your first manual car, did you by any chance let some foolish and or terrible driver friends of yours drive your new SI around?

Not exactly normal wear and tear, but its also going to be hard to argue that you didnt abuse the crap out of the clutch lol
 

DRuby

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Sounds like the dealer's service dept. is a den of thieves.

This whole thing, tow, diagnosis (opening the trans) and replacement should be warranty unless they can prove you did something wrong.

If I get the details, a dealer's folks checked the car and said the clutch, et. al., was fine. Then it went bad quickly, particularly AFTER they changed the trans fluid. Could they have done something wrong? Over-filled it into the clutch causing it to slip until the excess leaked out or burned away. Clutches don't like oil on the surface.

Move this to the regional office asap. Maybe your dad still has contacts, see what that could do. Even if not, tell the "service" dept. that's what you're going to do.

Also, before selling, check your state's lemon law. If you don't have the vehicle, you might lose rights under the law. A friendly lawyer to write letters to the dealer might send the signal that you're serious and not about to cave.
 
OP
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Finally someone posted a damn pic of this worn clutch issue.

Question for OP: (please don’t get offended, I'm not trying to insult your driving. I’m trying to figure out what is causing this clutch wear issue people are having)

People has said that mashing the throttle in 5th and 6th gear on the highway to pass aggressively at a low rpm can strain the clutch. Do you do this? High boost at low speeds in Overdrive gears is bad apparently.

Also are you rev matching when downshifting?
No worries about the insult! Perfectly reasonable question. I do not do that, no. If I pass ppl, it’s just in that gear unless I need to shift up of course.
 
OP
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Seems like you burnt it on your driving style
Totally understand where you’d get that, I guess I just don’t understand how that’s possible if I didn’t wear out my 99 LX or my 13 Si....I drive the same now as I did then. And both were just fine. And from what I explained to one of the dealers mechanics, he said that’s pretty much what this car is built for (obviously not to excess), but just that if you’re driving an Si, you aren’t usually super careful and easy going but tend to like to have fun with it. It’s not like I race it. I feel like I drive pretty normally. And considering all the highway miles, and being on cruise control, I’m no where near riding the clutch so idk. I’m just thinking out loud because I’m not sure what exactly happened honestly.
 
OP
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Considering this sounds like this isn't your first manual car, did you by any chance let some foolish and or terrible driver friends of yours drive your new SI around?

Not exactly normal wear and tear, but its also going to be hard to argue that you didnt abuse the crap out of the clutch lol
Ha, I agree. No, I did not! I don’t let anyone touch my car except mechanics (who’s to say no one took a spin in it lol but definitely not where it would be that affected). I also forgot to mention that I had noticed this happened less than a handful of times when I first got it in the beginning, and that’s obviously on me because I didn’t realize what was happening, and it stopped so I thought it was just some weird freak thing. I’m curious if it’s maybe a combination of a faulty part that I then wore out with not super easy driving but definitely not overdoing it...
 


OP
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Sounds like the dealer's service dept. is a den of thieves.

This whole thing, tow, diagnosis (opening the trans) and replacement should be warranty unless they can prove you did something wrong.

If I get the details, a dealer's folks checked the car and said the clutch, et. al., was fine. Then it went bad quickly, particularly AFTER they changed the trans fluid. Could they have done something wrong? Over-filled it into the clutch causing it to slip until the excess leaked out or burned away. Clutches don't like oil on the surface.

Move this to the regional office asap. Maybe your dad still has contacts, see what that could do. Even if not, tell the "service" dept. that's what you're going to do.

Also, before selling, check your state's lemon law. If you don't have the vehicle, you might lose rights under the law. A friendly lawyer to write letters to the dealer might send the signal that you're serious and not about to cave.
That’s great and helpful feedback, thanks so much! I’m definitely going to do all of that. I was also curious about the fact it went to two dealerships just before it got super bad (especially since they randomly brought it up then it got worse). My dad already opened a claim, I’m picking up the car tomorrow, and I’ll be putting together a defense. I just want to make sure the tow is for sure covered and obviously I’d like the clutch to be covered, but even if I have to pay for the disc (which is 1200, and I believe is actually specified in the warranty as not usually being covered), then I’d be happy with that and getting the rest taken care of.
 

SDAlexander8

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No worries about the insult! Perfectly reasonable question. I do not do that, no. If I pass ppl, it’s just in that gear unless I need to shift up of course.
Are you putting the clutch pedal to the floor for each shift, and are you putting it in gear completely before letting it up again?
 

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I am most definitely interested in why the tendance to do preventative maintenance. From my experience all of it is completely unnecessary and a money trap the dealerships or stealerships offer. Yes you must change your oil but that is it. Since 1992 I have driven every single automobile I have ever owned with 100 original fluid. Again I religiously change oil and air filter. I will NEVER spend money to change the cabin air filter ... Ever. An 18,000 mile Check up maintenance schedule is ??? Wha? I do not understand. After paying all that money for some sort of security insurance ... You would have more than enough money to pay for a real issue? Did this come from upbringing? No way would I flush ANYTHING at 30 k miles? Is it just me ... ???
 

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So I've had something a little similar but not exactly. I was having issues getting the stick into first occasionally and second grinding quite a bit and not allowing me into second.

Brought it to dealer and they said sounds like synchros but we will check it out. Had about 28k on it and they ask if I changed my tranny fluid which I hadn't. He says well we recommend every 15k which seems crazy cuz I put way more miles on my 2002 RSX type S fluid with no issues. So I go ahead n change fluid and mechanic says it seems fine now.

I drive it for a few days n it seems great with no issues. After that I notice that when I go into 2 downshifting to go around a turn I can tell its engaged n rpms are up until I hit the gas and it pops out of gear. This keeps happening over n over n i cant seem to get it in gear.

Bring it back and they approve a new tranny. Alright that's crazy i need a new tranny after 28k.

Get it back again and it feels great again. Now two weeks after the tranny went in I'm accelerating modestly around a car on the hwy so I downshift from 6th to 4th and rev match like I usually do and rpms are around 3500ish and I'm not flooring it and I notice the rpms rise up quick. I'm like shit not the clutch. So I try it again about the same rmp n it does it again. I had the Ktuner 19-23 tune for the past 15k miles by the way and returned to stock since new tranny went in.

Now I'm babying the shit out of it wondering wtf is up with this weak ass clutch. Most of my driving is on the highway and I also put the car in cruise control a lot. I put over 100k on my RSX clutch before it went n I had every bolt on done on that thing and beat the snot out of it without any issues. Plus it was my first car I bought that was stick back in 2002.

Now I'm in need of a clutch and there's no good options except supposedly Eman which I cant seem to get in contact with for his type R retro fit. Seems like others cant get Eman either cuz hes to busy. Now I might be stuck waiting on ACT to release their upgraded clutch and flywheel combo.

I know what your experiencing and I feel like its probably just the weak ass clutch and not necessarily your driving that killed the clutch. So many people seem to be having this issue.

Sorry I know it's long but I'm a bit annoyed with this car and feel Honda should address the clutch in some way. Almost wanna trade it in and get a Golf R lol.
 

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Totally understand where you’d get that, I guess I just don’t understand how that’s possible if I didn’t wear out my 99 LX or my 13 Si....I drive the same now as I did then. And both were just fine. And from what I explained to one of the dealers mechanics, he said that’s pretty much what this car is built for (obviously not to excess), but just that if you’re driving an Si, you aren’t usually super careful and easy going but tend to like to have fun with it. It’s not like I race it. I feel like I drive pretty normally. And considering all the highway miles, and being on cruise control, I’m no where near riding the clutch so idk. I’m just thinking out loud because I’m not sure what exactly happened honestly.
The reason why you didn't wear our the clutches on those cars is because they don't make the same torque at such a low rpm as the new si does. punching it like you said on 5th and 6th on the new si is a no no especially cause the clucthes on this cars are weak. My clutch is still alive even after all the abuse I have put her through and I'm even tuned etc. It's cause I never punched the gas on 5th or 6th and if I do punch it, it was also on 3rd gear over 3k rpm. What I recommend you doing is just buying a after market clutch like a stage 2 and have another shop install it. It's going to be cheaper and better because 3600 for a stock clutch is a no no eventually it will happen again.
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