New camo'd Civic Sedan?! This is a 6MT 1.5T prototype we drove today

[dick w]

More than simulated

I think his point was that PS on a CVT are kinda senseless since there's no S.

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[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

I think his point was that PS on a CVT are kinda senseless since there's no S.

Yeah pretty much. I wasn't trying to sound like a jackoff or anything, just genuinely wonder what is desired. It seems like 'drive modes' would be appropriate. Something like the WRX CVT apparently has where it just holds the engine at peak power.

I don't know that the CVT is realistically capable of taking much more power, but I still wonder how you'd go about dyno tuning it...

 

[Sirrom]

Any updates on this? I think I saw somewhere that the driving reactions or whatever will be Feb 22nd, but I'm getting impatient. I'm going to get the Civic in a manual regardless, but I'd like to have the 1.5T if it works well in the 6MT rather than the base LX. I really want alloy wheels, push button start, sunroof, better audio system, etc. along with the manual.

 

[Buccal_Up]

damn i would've waited for a manual.. oh well

 

[Shralper]

Compare and contrast the 1972 pre-CAFE CVCC Civic and the 2016 Civic--by any measure of automotive goodness you want. And compare, say, the power and torque of a Veyron SS with your mythic 1960's muscle car. (Heck, compare the 1.5T Civic to your mythic '60s muscle car.) There has been a steady march of both regulation and technology to meet that regulation over that time. It wasn't just regs issued in '75, billion$ of investment later, regs met in 2016.

Will new technology be required? Sure. Might the days of gasoline be numbered? Maybe, but I'm betting the last kid to buy a new gasoline car hasn't been born yet. Are today's gasoline automobiles still very inefficient thermally? Yup. Are the automakers going to have to invest? Yup. Are they going to build that investment into the prices they charge? Yup.

The automakers are going to cry a river about any regulations. Always have. Always will. Think of it as lobbying to avoid investment. It's just how the system works.

Your premise that car manufacturers would have not continually improved their vehicles without CAFE and other federal regs forcing them to do it is simply ludicrous.

I won't waste a bunch of time explaining how free markets and competition worked to dramatically improve automobiles, long before any federal regs existed. But it's worth mentioning the fact that when the OPEC oil embargo hit in 1974, fuel efficient Japanese car sales took off like a rocket overnight. Toyota had months-long waiting lists (before that, Japanese cars were mocked and ridiculed by most Americans). All the American car builders worked like crazy to start building smaller, fuel efficient cars to compete and meet the demand. It didn't take the CAFE to force them to do it.

 

[dick w]

Your premise that car manufacturers would have not continually improved their vehicles without CAFE and other federal regs forcing them to do it is simply ludicrous.

And where, exactly, did I presume that?

It is clear, that the priorities they would have addressed would have been different. If they are going to continue to voluntarily improve emissions and fuel economy without the requirement to do so, then why is it such an imposition on them to be required to?

 

[Shralper]

You might be overlooking something important, and that is the quality of the driving experience. You may be assuming that today's driving experience is better in every way but I can assure you it's not. I for one can not stand the Honda Sensing nonsense and if I'm unable to turn it off I probably won't buy the car.... But that's not where it ends. Increasingly cars are coming equipped with an automatic stop-start feature that will turn your engine off when you come to a stop then turn it on again when you hit the gas. I for one will never drive a car with this "feature", and the fact that I now need to actively avoid this makes car shopping a much more limited activity for me. There will come a point where the joy of driving will have been extinguished due to features like this that exist for no reason other than to meet CAFE regulations, even to the extent of causing more actual waste (example for stop/start you'll be wearing out battery & ignition system,creating higher emissions on restart,etc) than savings. Let's encourage all driving enthusiasts to not only slow but hopefully reverse this tide of idiocy that is overtaking the automobile industry.

Amen, brutha. And the whole new stop-start gimmick just proves that there's nowhere else to go with gas engines, especially with the first-ever CO2 restrictions just implemented. I sat in a friend's Porsche Cayman the other day and he informed me about this 'feature'. Ugh.

Speaking of Porsche, anyone remember this story? I sure do.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/02/obama-will-take-away-your-porsche/

Porsche nearly had to pull out of America. It could still happen (the last I read, VW buying them out is the only thing that might save them).

 

[Shralper]

And where, exactly, did I presume that?

It is clear, that the priorities they would have addressed would have been different. If they are going to continue to voluntarily improve emissions and fuel economy without the requirement to do so, then why is it such an imposition on them to be required to?

You presume it in everything you wrote.

 

[dick w]

And the whole new stop-start gimmick just proves that there's nowhere else to go with gas engines, especially with the first-ever CO2 restrictions just implemented. I sat in a friend's Porsche Cayman the other day and he informed me about this 'feature'. Ugh.

Yup. Start-Stop proves there's nowhere else to go on fuel economy with a car that puts out 385 hp, does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds, and has a top speed of 183 mph. Sad what regulation has done to this car. Just sad.

I'm done wasting time with you. You want to feel victimized. Knock yourself out.

 

[Shralper]

And where, exactly, did I presume that?

It is clear, that the priorities they would have addressed would have been different. If they are going to continue to voluntarily improve emissions and fuel economy without the requirement to do so, then why is it such an imposition on them to be required to?

Because they have been given an impossible task. There isn't some infinite amount of energy that can be extracted from a gallon of gas. They've already tapped it all out. There's nowhere else to go but electrics and every engineer knows it. Problem is, EVs are too expensive and not practical for most buyers. That's not likely to change anytime soon either, if ever. In the meantime, these new reqs must still be met. Car mfrs aren't sure what they are going to do. Ultimately, it's car enthusiasts who will suffer.

 

[Shralper]

Yup. Start-Stop proves there's nowhere else to go on fuel economy with a car that puts out 385 hp, does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds, and has a top speed of 183 mph. Sad what regulation has done to this car. Just sad.

I'm done wasting time with you. You want to feel victimized. Knock yourself out.

Likewise.

 

[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

Fortunately, for the air we breathe, the majority of drivers just want reliable transportation and care more about features and luxuries than about how fun it is to drive.
With any luck, they won't ever ban classics, street rods, etc and we will be able to hang on to our fun cars for a long time.

 

[optikalillusi0n]

New thread for this argument!! LOL, I keep thinking there are updates about the manual tranny civic! Ha

 

[Sirrom]

New thread for this argument!! LOL, I keep thinking there are updates about the manual tranny civic! Ha

Agreed. Can we keep this on topic about the 1.5T 6MT? I have my fingers crossed so hard that it comes out this summer so I can get it.

 

[nathanzachary]

Agreed. Can we keep this on topic about the 1.5T 6MT? I have my fingers crossed so hard that it comes out this summer so I can get it.

Man, that would be excellent if they were offered this summer! Given the hoopla about the 2.0 NA engines and the scare with the stop-sales, I have decided that I may as well wait to purchase my new Civic. I had an LX built (because it was the only one offered in a 6MT), but I'll forego that one if we can get a 1.5T 6MT at some point soon. I was thinking that it would be in September or October, but heck, I will take summer of 2016. Let's hope!

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