Need more torque...........

ExVTEC

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So I drove my GF WRX today after not having driven it for a month or so and it's more fun than my tuned CTR. She is bone stock but will push me into the seat. My R does it in 3rd gear at jail speeds but I can't do that often. A 15 minute ride in her car and I was having a blast. And it's part and full throttle. When I drive my R I don't even think it makes any boost at part throttle in 1st and 2nd gear. So weird. Is it just the character of the engine, no torque down low? Me jetta 1.8 pushed me harder into the seat with a JB4. I'm not criticizing the tune I just wonder if it's just the character of the car. Just a little bummed.
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ManfromRI

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Do you have a tune???

1st gear is useless to judge torque anyways. I have the k-tuned "low end torque reduced" tune installed and I feel plenty of torque from 2nd-5th above 3000rpms.. Maybe your clutch is slipping????
 

remc86007

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The CTR makes significantly more torque at every rpm than the WRX. The only thing that could prevent you from feeling the torque (outside of a bad tune or a mechanical problem) is the CTR's ability to spin the tires easily through first and second gear. In first gear the WRX is going to throw you back in the seat more than the CTR ever could because of the AWD, but by the time you get to second gear, the CTR should be putting down more horsepower to the ground than the WRX.
 
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ExVTEC

ExVTEC

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I don't abuse my car with launches or anything like that. It just seems that even with my tune her car is more responsive at mild and part throttle inputs. My car is ok in 1st and 2nd then 3rd suddenly the car wakes up.
 

boosted180sx

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I don't abuse my car with launches or anything like that. It just seems that even with my tune her car is more responsive at mild and part throttle inputs. My car is ok in 1st and 2nd then 3rd suddenly the car wakes up.
then you need to adjust your torque tables to fit your idea of mild and part throttle inputs.
 


turboR

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I have owned 4 different Evos (all tuned), a Subaru WRX, STI and Legacy GTL, and some muscle cars...now the CTR. What you are experiencing is AWD vs FWD mostly and the fact that the boost on the CTR is wayyyy more smooth than the outdated WRX platform. To me the CTR is a way more enjoyable driving experience overall, minus the loss of traction in the low gears. I have owned her for over a year now, and the stock tune is so good that I have yet do even do Hondata, although I plan to maybe next year, but it is not even necessary to enjoy this car. No stock Evo or WRX/STI even came close to how smooth the CTR is in stock form.
 

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Increase your throttle pedal response.
 

tinyman392

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So I drove my GF WRX today after not having driven it for a month or so and it's more fun than my tuned CTR. She is bone stock but will push me into the seat. My R does it in 3rd gear at jail speeds but I can't do that often. A 15 minute ride in her car and I was having a blast. And it's part and full throttle. When I drive my R I don't even think it makes any boost at part throttle in 1st and 2nd gear. So weird. Is it just the character of the engine, no torque down low? Me jetta 1.8 pushed me harder into the seat with a JB4. I'm not criticizing the tune I just wonder if it's just the character of the car. Just a little bummed.
Let's talk about torque and how much torque the wheels can handle. The maximum torque that a set of wheels can handle will be related to the frictional coefficient between the rubber with the road and the weight over the driven wheels. I'm going to assume a few things that may not be true, but let's say that both cars are on the same compound tire and have the same sized contact patch. I'm also going to assume that the torque handled by the wheels scales linearly with the weight over the axle (I don't believe this is true, but I may be wrong), it's just to make the point.

The Type R has about a 60/40 (front/rear) split, however, under acceleration the weight transfer actually sends some of the weight to the rear of the car. Let's say it's about 50/50 under hard acceleration (it may be better or worse than this in reality). So only 50% of the cars weight is over the front wheels (driven wheels). So the total torque the driven wheels can handle is going to be (3100 * 0.5)f ~= 1550f (where f is some constant, since the tire compound and and contact patch is the same size, they'll cancel out).

With the WRX, the weight split doesn't matter as the entire weight of the vehicle is over the driven wheels. So the total torque that the wheels can handle is 3400f. That is, the driven wheels in the WRX can handle is more than 2x that of the CTR because it's heavier but drives all the wheels. This is the reason why the CTR will spin first and second gear if you go full throttle. The CTR technically produces more torque than the WRX across the rev range and even more so if you account for drivetrain losses through an AWD system. But because the WRX can put down all of its torque at start all at once, it pushes to you to the back of your seat immediately and without hesitation. If the CTR attempts this, it'll spin/skip its tires, no bueno.

In 1st and 2nd gear I can hit 15-ish pounds of boost with the Type R, but you have to do it correctly, and that boost doesn't come on until you've hit about 3000-3500 RPM, but you have to do it right*. That is, you need to roll into the throttle smoothly to build the boost. You'll be pushed into your seat around 3000-3500 RPM as the car begins to simply rocket you with power after. When you shift into 2nd, smoothly apply the throttle again to get the boost to go back up and around 3000-3500 RPM (if you're above that already, then wait for the lag to pass) it'll push you to the back of your seat again before powering its way through. But notice how that response isn't immediate, which is kind of what takes that fun-on-command personality out of it that an AWD car can offer.

In short, vehicles that have low end torque, or instant torque (AWD and/or electric vehicles) will be more fun to drive on public roads because everything comes on immediately while a vehicle that is more power driven needs to be revved out almost completely. The latter type of vehicle only becomes fun when you're reaching speeds that would send you to jail (slight overstatement). The CTR tries to cut the two and create a compromise. You don't need to rev the thing out to get the engine to play ball, but you do have to do it a little, and finesse it properly in the process. There's a certain dance you have to learn to get the car to become playful, otherwise if you try to floor it for max speed all the time, it just becomes a powerhouse and you never really feel the torque, you just feel the power (which is odd and dangerous as you get to speeds without realizing it).

*it may be possible to get the pushed-into-the-back-of-your-seat feeling almost immediately if you figure out how to do a hard launch and perfect it. I haven't attempted to learn this and don't really plan to.

Edit: with a tune the response of the car (mainly the numbers I give of 3000-3500 RPM) may have changed. But with the stock tune, I've found that if I give it as much gas as humanly possible for the car to handle, it's fast as heck, but I never really feel the torque and just get the power. It's a really weird feeling. However, if I dance the dance and be slow with it, I can feel the torque kick.
 

AdamD19DFK8

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What tune? With hondata you can set first and second gear to full power and increase throttle response by increasing torque targets down low. This works well in tandem with their traction control software. In second you can't really give it full throttle until it's up in the mid 5k range because there's too much tourque in the low end and the wheels will just spin.

Looking at longitudal G force I've gotten to right around .72 g's of acceleration in second gear. Quite a step up from the stock Max acceleration of .52

I can't even go above half throttle with other cars on the road because I'd be in their backseat in no time. Open road 20-100 just flies by.
From a data log I timed how fast I could get from 85-140 and my car did it in 10 seconds flat. I forget how long it took stock but I have a video of it. Nowhere near as quick that's for sure.
 
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SHAYN3R

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Downgrade to an Si, lots of low end torque when tuned lol.
 

tinyman392

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My jetta was running jb4 map 2 93 oct, full torque was available at about 1600 rpm, LOL that :D
An Si makes peak torque pretty early on. Upgrade the turbo on it and you'll have low-end torque for days; makes it an immensely fun car on the streets.
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