Navi on Non-Navi model, Is it possible?

[CivicMichael]

I know the excellent navigation app Navigon wants to be able to support Carplay, but they haven't been granted access to this yet. That's what I used to use in my old non-navi Civic when I'd go down to Buffalo. Hopefully one day it will be possible to use 3rd party nav apps with Carplay. In the mean time, I know it's possible to get Google Maps to download/cache map data so you can tell it to cache the area in Canada that you often travel to. It seems Apple Maps can do this too but it may not be as robust and I've never tried it myself. Here's an article that shows how to use various nav apps without a data connection: http://mashable.com/2015/09/16/offline-maps/#v13xQkMRTiqw

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[ikevinc]

Honda is still running Navi from a SD card. Heres the diagram of the radio.

Very interesting. I wonder if that means that if we were to open up a non-navi unit... would we find an empty spot for an SD card? Where did the diagram you post come from?

Honda leaves their code the same for all units. it will search for a file or function but if its not their it will skip it. SU was removed from the system folder.

It makes sense, I guess the question is, what hardware/software/settings need to be provided to activate it, and if it's realistic to do so. If not, I'd be happy just to install a 3rd party nav APK, or even google maps directly on the unit as an app.
Apple Carplay + Apple Maps gets the job done, but it would be nice to not have to plug in the phone to use nav.

SU was removed from the system folder. The reason why we cant install apps or apk is because honda disable the permissions. The system folder is locked down with no writing or even deleting.

If I may ask, how do you know this? Were you able to get a complete file/folder listing from the device somehow? I'd love to get that far with my system.

I know in a thread on xda-developers there are some forum posts revealing a lot of info about the 2016 Pilot system, however, it seems that some people haven't noticed that the 2016 Honda Pilot unit is not the same as the 2016 Honda Civic unit despite a very similar looking front panel and software UI. The 2016 Civic android unit is made by Mitsubishi Electric (http://hondapartsnetwork.com/assemb...le-Transmission-Navigation-System-Gps-Antenna), and the 2016 Pilot android unit is made by Clarion (http://hondapartsnetwork.com/assemb...avigation-6-Speed-Automatic-Navigation-System). There are also some differences in the UI as the Pilot unit DOES have a "Developer Mode" enable option in the Developer Diag hidden menu, but they still can't install APKs. One guy opened the unit up and inside the 2016 pilot unit there is a hidden usb port that gave him access with the Android Developer Kit + Nvidia Tegra drivers, he still couldn't install anything. The Civic also comes with that APK Installer app which is missing on the Pilot unit, instead the Pilot's app installer expects some sort of encrypted/encoded HAP file for apps.

And of course, IF there is no way to install an APK on the Civic unit, why did they leave that APK Installer listed in plain view? If there was no way, then I would imagine even APKs from Honda can't be installed, at that point why not remove that icon? or at least bury it in a hidden menu? Maybe if Honda ever releases some update or something that uses the APK Installer, maybe then it can be reverse engineered to find a way in.

 

[Anekin007]

Very interesting. I wonder if that means that if we were to open up a non-navi unit... would we find an empty spot for an SD card? Where did the diagram you post come from?


It makes sense, I guess the question is, what hardware/software/settings need to be provided to activate it, and if it's realistic to do so. If not, I'd be happy just to install a 3rd party nav APK, or even google maps directly on the unit as an app.
Apple Carplay + Apple Maps gets the job done, but it would be nice to not have to plug in the phone to use nav.


If I may ask, how do you know this? Were you able to get a complete file/folder listing from the device somehow? I'd love to get that far with my system.

I know in a thread on xda-developers there are some forum posts revealing a lot of info about the 2016 Pilot system, however, it seems that some people haven't noticed that the 2016 Honda Pilot unit is not the same as the 2016 Honda Civic unit despite a very similar looking front panel and software UI. The 2016 Civic android unit is made by Mitsubishi Electric (http://hondapartsnetwork.com/assemb...le-Transmission-Navigation-System-Gps-Antenna), and the 2016 Pilot android unit is made by Clarion (http://hondapartsnetwork.com/assemb...avigation-6-Speed-Automatic-Navigation-System). There are also some differences in the UI as the Pilot unit DOES have a "Developer Mode" enable option in the Developer Diag hidden menu, but they still can't install APKs. One guy opened the unit up and inside the 2016 pilot unit there is a hidden usb port that gave him access with the Android Developer Kit + Nvidia Tegra drivers, he still couldn't install anything. The Civic also comes with that APK Installer app which is missing on the Pilot unit, instead the Pilot's app installer expects some sort of encrypted/encoded HAP file for apps.

And of course, IF there is no way to install an APK on the Civic unit, why did they leave that APK Installer listed in plain view? If there was no way, then I would imagine even APKs from Honda can't be installed, at that point why not remove that icon? or at least bury it in a hidden menu? Maybe if Honda ever releases some update or something that uses the APK Installer, maybe then it can be reverse engineered to find a way in.

The diagram is from honda service express. The 16 Pilot isnt much different from the 16 Civic. Updated UI and different hardware but still on android 4.2.2. I actually do have the 16 Pilot and most of the main Honda's files and android are the same. I dont believe theres a secret usb or even running a tegra chip since theres no reference to nvidia or terga in the dumpstate. The dumpstate just shows its running a ARM chip but the Civic does show a Terga chip.

With the Pilot I have access with ADB and I pulled the file system. I use it as a reference for the Civic until i can find a way to turn on ADB. I also have the Civic dumpstate and ADB is located at /bin, its the same location as on the pilot. Pretty much most of the same files are located in a same folders. The apk installer is the same as on the civic which uses the packageinstaller.apk. developer pretty much denied permission to install any packages which makes it difficult to root. Rooting requires pushing software or files to certain folders. I am able to push files into a very few folders but installing packages just comes back permission denied. Its not as easy as working on a phone/tablet since so much is blocked. Without adb access theres no much people can do on the civic.

 

[somarilnos]

As a 'workaround', there are some apps you can get on your phone that download map data. While it's not as optimal as having GPS directions on your touchscreen, you can always mount the phone on a windshield bracket, run one of those apps, and stream audio via Bluetooth for the navigation.

 

[t3hub3rk1tten]

With the Pilot I have access with ADB and I pulled the file system. I use it as a reference for the Civic until i can find a way to turn on ADB. I also have the Civic dumpstate and ADB is located at /bin, its the same location as on the pilot. Pretty much most of the same files are located in a same folders. The apk installer is the same as on the civic which uses the packageinstaller.apk. developer pretty much denied permission to install any packages which makes it difficult to root. Rooting requires pushing software or files to certain folders. I am able to push files into a very few folders but installing packages just comes back permission denied. Its not as easy as working on a phone/tablet since so much is blocked. Without adb access theres no much people can do on the civic.

Could you send me a copy of the Pilot's files? I'd like to dig around in some of the custom apks.

 

[Anekin007]

Could you send me a copy of the Pilot's files? I'd like to dig around in some of the custom apks.

Heres all the apk from the app folder. its under the OS system's folder. Theres apks like air conditioner or hdmi app that shouldnt have been in there but honda just threw it in there for some reason. running those non working apk just came back failed from the android settings menu.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_oKpK0tjrpqeG5ORUdxZVBPcU0

 

[jk147]

Google maps allows you to download the map in offline mode, meaning you can save an area of the map onto your phone directly. My old Nexus 5 (no sim) comes with built in GPS so I just use android auto on it and it works without mobile data. I have to leave the phone on the dash for this to work and it is a bit slow to pick up the satellites. But it works with android auto map / view.

May not be the perfect solution but a good stop gap to consider.

 

[TinoMills]

Google maps allows you to download the map in offline mode, meaning you can save an area of the map onto your phone directly. My old Nexus 5 (no sim) comes with built in GPS so I just use android auto on it and it works without mobile data. I have to leave the phone on the dash for this to work and it is a bit slow to pick up the satellites. But it works with android auto map / view.

May not be the perfect solution but a good stop gap to consider.

That's exactly what do with TomTom as my iphone does not have service either, I just use it for voip and gps lol. TomTom wont play the directions through the cars speakers unless its set to bluetooth and then i cant play usb simultaneously. Guess im just going to have to wait.

 

[jk147]

That's exactly what do with TomTom as my iphone does not have service either, I just use it for voip and gps lol. TomTom wont play the directions through the cars speakers unless its set to bluetooth and then i cant play usb simultaneously. Guess im just going to have to wait.

I mean with my Nexus you can use Android auto with it, meaning it will show directions and maps on the infotainment screen since it is integrated.

 

[ikevinc]

I wonder if it's possible to physically swap in a unit with navi...
Without Nav:
39101-TBC-A41
http://hondapartsnetwork.com/assemb...ntinuously-Variable-Transmission-Audio-Unit-2
With Navi:
39101-TBC-A61
http://hondapartsnetwork.com/assemb...le-Transmission-Navigation-System-Gps-Antenna

Looks like the re-manufactured navi version is only $342 for some reason... I wonder what the possibility is that it could be swapped, what the procedure would be.

The touchscreen part is just connected with an LVDS cable (video signal), so the android system really lives in the headunit itself.

 

[TinoMills]

I'd hate to be that guy that wastes $342 on something and then they allow free apk installs a week later. Lol

 

[lightthief]

I'd hate to be that guy that wastes $342 on something and then they allow free apk installs a week later. Lol

They aren't.

 

[t3hub3rk1tten]

I'd hate to be that guy that wastes $342 on something and then they allow free apk installs a week later. Lol

I would be more worried about it not working to swap in the different head unit.

 

[tomzero]

Heres all the apk from the app folder. its under the OS system's folder. Theres apks like air conditioner or hdmi app that shouldnt have been in there but honda just threw it in there for some reason. running those non working apk just came back failed from the android settings menu.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_oKpK0tjrpqeG5ORUdxZVBPcU0

Hi Guys!
I came from xda-dev thread, thank you for sharing this.
Now we can decompile these apks, maybe we will find something.

 

[HonoluluBoy]

I just got Android Auto to work and the google maps worked like a dream! I too have the EX-T version without the standard navigation, but I'm not worried and now I have google maps on my dashboard!

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