Navi on Non-Navi model, Is it possible?

TinoMills

Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Threads
9
Messages
39
Reaction score
11
Location
Buffalo, NY
Vehicle(s)
2016 Civic EX
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
Hey all first post here. Just got the car and love it. I was scrolling through the settings and see some options for Nav but I only have an EX model. I guess im aware of the lack of .apk support atm but is there anyway to get GPS out of this car without using cellular data as I travel to Canada alot. I have TomTom on my Iphone but I hate that the directions wont come through the speakers when a usb is connected. Its either USB for music or Bluetooth for nav data.
Sponsored

 

ikevinc

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2016
Threads
0
Messages
34
Reaction score
19
Location
Miami
Vehicle(s)
2016 Civic EX-L
I've been lurking these forums and xda-developers trying to figure out the same thing, I have an EX-L no navigation, but I'd really like to install a navigation .apk directly on the car. Until we can install .apk we won't have alot of options. CarPlay is locked down by Apple, developers have to be invited into the program, and they don't seem to be inviting any other navigation vendors to compete with Apple Maps.
If you want to pickup an Android phone and use Google Maps, then this might be a solution, there is a way of downloading whole areas for offline use to avoid data use:
https://support.google.com/gmm/answer/6291838?hl=en
 

MisterEnigma

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Threads
2
Messages
98
Reaction score
41
Location
New York
Vehicle(s)
2016 Civic EX-T
As of now, I don't believe there is since no one has figure out how to install custom apk. Also, someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the EX model do not have the GPS built in (shark fin).
 

ikevinc

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2016
Threads
0
Messages
34
Reaction score
19
Location
Miami
Vehicle(s)
2016 Civic EX-L
@MisterEnigma If you take a look at the exterior fin-type antenna line in the exterior features section of the PDF in the link (http://automobiles.honda.com/images...016-civic-sedan-specifications-highlights.pdf), it shows that EX does not have the fin antenna, and the EX-T and EX-L do have the fin antenna. It seems to go hand in-hand with the HD Radio and SiriusXM tuner. I suspect that it also gives you the internal GPS that goes unused without the navigation .apk installed. I wanted to get the EX-L with Nav, but they didn't have it in the color I wanted (agean blue).

However, even on the 2.0 EX trim, if the android system were to be hacked wide open, you could probably connect a bluetooth GPS reciever to allow certain navigation apps to run. So all hope is not lost for 2.0 EX owners... but it does add an additional complication.
 

bhorn

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Threads
10
Messages
642
Reaction score
441
Location
Mobile, AL
Vehicle(s)
'16 Civic EX HS Sedan
Country flag
The shark fin is only for the sat radio receiver. The EX does have a GPS antennae, which you can verify by swiping down on the display and seeing the GPS lock status. Also from the diagnostic menu you can see the satellite locking status. The GPS is used to augment CarPlay/Android Auto maps.
 


OP
OP
TinoMills

TinoMills

Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Threads
9
Messages
39
Reaction score
11
Location
Buffalo, NY
Vehicle(s)
2016 Civic EX
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
It has to have some sort of GPS reciever, it has a compass so why not? But that PDF has to be outdated or something because I have, Voice recognition and Song by voice (SBV) I'll look through the settings and check where i seen that GPS setting.
 
OP
OP
TinoMills

TinoMills

Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Threads
9
Messages
39
Reaction score
11
Location
Buffalo, NY
Vehicle(s)
2016 Civic EX
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
I actually retract that statement; apparently I don't have a compass (I just checked) which is weird because the PDF says I should. But I do see a little GPS satellite looking thing in the top of the infotainment center between the time and the Audio and Source "buttons". And in the system settings I see a setting for guidance volume and it has the option for navigation voice guidance volume.
 

ikevinc

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2016
Threads
0
Messages
34
Reaction score
19
Location
Miami
Vehicle(s)
2016 Civic EX-L
To make things more interesting, I was playing with things in the secret menu. The one you get to by holding brightness+audio+menu for a couple of seconds, then tap the bottom option, then hold menu button again for 10 sec. (this is documented in another thread).
While having a usb flash drive plugged in, I used some option in one of the sub menus for for a dump, it took about 5 minutes to finish.

That generated a few files on the flash drive in a folder with a number, the files are called "ExceptionAmetrine_dumpstate.dat" "ExceptionAmetrine_logcat.dat" and "ExceptionH16M.dat" they are all text files with a dump of a ton of system information, about 10MB of text total, that's a lot of text to sift through. I'm an IT person by profession, and a windows programmer by hobby, so I can understand some of what is going on in there, but it's still an overwhelming amount of detail.

I would post the files, but i'm not sure how much of it is personal data that I might not want on the internet, my VIN number is definitely in there. However, I can tell you that despite having an EX-L without navigation, there is a TON of references to the navigation apk, in fact it seems as if it's actually a running process! Even on a non-nav car!

In the "ExceptionH16M.dat" file, there is a reference to "GarminUnlock*.csv" not found:
2016-04-19 18:33:25.210 32541 32737 E DiagApService: NavigationModuleManager.getNewUnitId(2242):GarminUnlock*.csv not found
2016-04-19 18:33:28.230 32541 32699 E DiagApService: DiagException.<init>(21):
2016-04-19 18:33:28.230 32541 32699 E DiagApService: TaskMapUnLockGetLockStatus.run(63):catch DiagException

In there are a few references to a map unlock procedure of some sort, looking for some unlock file.

In the "ExceptionAmetrine_logcat.dat" file there is the following:
2016-04-19 18:41:53.880 1210 2036 I NavigationApService: NavigationApService$22.getVinNumber(2602):CALL: OUT:vinNumber = 19XFC____________[MY VIN WAS THERE]
Seems like the navigation service checks your VIN number for some reason.

In the "ExceptionAmetrine_dumpstate.dat" file there are countless lines such as:

2016-04-19 18:42:30.560 1210 1210 I NavigationApService: NavigationApService$3.onNmeaReceived(645):CALL: IN:timestamp = 1461105751063, nmea = $GPRMC[DETAILS OMITTED BECAUSE IT IS MY CAR'S EXACT GPS COORDINATES]
Looks like the navigation service is receiving position data.

There were other references to an internal database of some sort, complete with SQL SELECT statements. Seems like settings of some sort are stored in a database.

Based on this evidence, at least for my car, I can say I'm confident that the garmin navigation apk is actually in the unit, but that some routine does not enable it because some criteria is not met. Maybe it's based on VIN number, or some internal settings, or some combination of criteria.
 

MuGeN PoWeR

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Threads
2
Messages
260
Reaction score
52
Location
Utah
Vehicle(s)
2016 Honda Civic EX
To make things more interesting, I was playing with things in the secret menu. The one you get to by holding brightness+audio+menu for a couple of seconds, then tap the bottom option, then hold menu button again for 10 sec. (this is documented in another thread).
While having a usb flash drive plugged in, I used some option in one of the sub menus for for a dump, it took about 5 minutes to finish.

That generated a few files on the flash drive in a folder with a number, the files are called "ExceptionAmetrine_dumpstate.dat" "ExceptionAmetrine_logcat.dat" and "ExceptionH16M.dat" they are all text files with a dump of a ton of system information, about 10MB of text total, that's a lot of text to sift through. I'm an IT person by profession, and a windows programmer by hobby, so I can understand some of what is going on in there, but it's still an overwhelming amount of detail.

I would post the files, but i'm not sure how much of it is personal data that I might not want on the internet, my VIN number is definitely in there. However, I can tell you that despite having an EX-L without navigation, there is a TON of references to the navigation apk, in fact it seems as if it's actually a running process! Even on a non-nav car!

In the "ExceptionH16M.dat" file, there is a reference to "GarminUnlock*.csv" not found:
2016-04-19 18:33:25.210 32541 32737 E DiagApService: NavigationModuleManager.getNewUnitId(2242):GarminUnlock*.csv not found
2016-04-19 18:33:28.230 32541 32699 E DiagApService: DiagException.<init>(21):
2016-04-19 18:33:28.230 32541 32699 E DiagApService: TaskMapUnLockGetLockStatus.run(63):catch DiagException

In there are a few references to a map unlock procedure of some sort, looking for some unlock file.

In the "ExceptionAmetrine_logcat.dat" file there is the following:
2016-04-19 18:41:53.880 1210 2036 I NavigationApService: NavigationApService$22.getVinNumber(2602):CALL: OUT:vinNumber = 19XFC____________[MY VIN WAS THERE]
Seems like the navigation service checks your VIN number for some reason.

In the "ExceptionAmetrine_dumpstate.dat" file there are countless lines such as:

2016-04-19 18:42:30.560 1210 1210 I NavigationApService: NavigationApService$3.onNmeaReceived(645):CALL: IN:timestamp = 1461105751063, nmea = $GPRMC[DETAILS OMITTED BECAUSE IT IS MY CAR'S EXACT GPS COORDINATES]
Looks like the navigation service is receiving position data.

There were other references to an internal database of some sort, complete with SQL SELECT statements. Seems like settings of some sort are stored in a database.

Based on this evidence, at least for my car, I can say I'm confident that the garmin navigation apk is actually in the unit, but that some routine does not enable it because some criteria is not met. Maybe it's based on VIN number, or some internal settings, or some combination of criteria.

that is really interesting. i will look into this once i get free from exams next week. i am also getting a CS degree.
 


t3hub3rk1tten

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2015
Threads
7
Messages
129
Reaction score
89
Location
Texas
Website
mwe.st
Vehicle(s)
Civic Touring MSM
I remember someone looking it up and the part number between Navi and non-Navi headunits are the same. So yes, there is a Garmin apk on EX and up because it's the same unit. And you can see the car is still getting GPS by just swiping down the notification bar.

The unlock .csv is interesting. But the calls to VIN make me think it's simply just checking the VIN for the right model codes as described here.

The log files do contain a lot of data. One interesting thing is that, during development, a su binary was actually installed. You can see some of the developer diag logs trying to call it (and failing).
 

dick w

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2015
Threads
11
Messages
1,985
Reaction score
877
Location
Kapaʻa, HI
Vehicle(s)
'16 Civic Sedan Touring, '18 CR-V Touring AWD
Country flag

ikevinc

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2016
Threads
0
Messages
34
Reaction score
19
Location
Miami
Vehicle(s)
2016 Civic EX-L
I have a feeling even if progress was made into gaining root access to the android system, activating the navigation app, and unlocking the garmin street map database might be two independant challenges. Some of garmin's other devices also have a map unlock feature: https://my.garmin.com/maps/unlockMaps.htm
I'm guessing that when honda activates the android units that support Navi, that they have to pay Garmin a license fee per unit.

As best as I can tell, from searching some car dealer inventories on the web, it seems you can't tell if a car has NAV straight from the VIN digits. The Touring always has nav, but it's optional on the EX-L. The Trim digit for EX-L and EX-L + Nav are the same. Unless there's something I missed, it doesn't seem the VIN alone can identify cars entitled to Nav. Maybe the VIN is used for something else in the nav system.

There are a lot of services that seem to be running, there must be a way in. In the process listing, several processes on mine are running as root, so the root user does exist.

As for installing a 3rd party navigation app like google maps (or installing any APK really), I attempted to install the YouTube APK from a flash drive, then pulled the dump files. The logs show that there is a "whitelist" service that shuts it down immediately. If there was a way to stop or uninstall the whitelist app, i would expect APKs might install.

You can see this whitelist app (along with the navigation app) listed by swiping down on the display, tap settings (this goes to android settings menu), then applications, then swipe right over to the screen listing ALL applications, and scroll down there. I tried to force stop the whitelist app without success.
 

Yeti

Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2016
Threads
4
Messages
45
Reaction score
19
Location
Toronto
Vehicle(s)
2016 Honda Civic EX
Country flag
Wow this is some good stuff and some progress.

I am new to the whole infotainment thing, has anyone been successful at rooting any other car manufacturer infotainment system running android?

I look forward to the day that someone cracks the CivicX.
 

Anekin007

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Threads
12
Messages
173
Reaction score
165
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
2016 Civic EX
Honda is still running Navi from a SD card. Heres the diagram of the radio.

Honda Civic 10th gen Navi on Non-Navi model, Is it possible? GJMyipK


Honda leaves their code the same for all units. it will search for a file or function but if its not their it will skip it. SU was removed from the system folder. The reason why we cant install apps or apk is because honda disable the permissions. The system folder is locked down with no writing or even deleting.
Sponsored

 


 


Top