My Type R Christmas Eve-Eve Test Drive (Long read)

[boosted180sx]

that's surprising how I have a totally different view of the Accord. I really wanted to drive the new Accord cause I was kind of hyped for it so when my friend who works at Honda told me they got one, i went to go drive it right away. The 6 MT reminds me of the 240sx shifter and in no way I felt it better than the S2000. The 10AT on the other hand felt great. The shifts are quick like you said but even on the 10spd I spun the front tires thru first and on the shift from first to second lol. So the traction issues are still there. The interior I agree is much better but that's to be expected since the CTR is based off of a civic. I really like the new accord overall and like you said, the accord is definitely a lot of car for the money but to call it a real sports sedan ... i don't know. It's definitely a sporty sedan though.

just out of curiosity, why are you so into the traction issues in first gear. How often are you really going to be doing WOT in first when you are going to be driving? I don't know why that is swaying your decision to purchase car so much.

In the end, if buying the accord will allow you to keep the S2000, that's what I would do. I don't think I would've bought a CTR if I had to sell my S2000 in order to get it.

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[S2k_Dude]

When I started my search for a new car, I was trying to simplify my life and see if I could get everything I wanted in one car. I'd owned the S2000 for 15 great years, but the S2000 was starting to need more in terms of upkeep and I was thinking it's time for something new.

The logical place to start would be a hot hatch. Between the Focus RS, Golf R, and Civic Type R, I thought I'd find one of those that would fit the bill. I first drove the Focus RS. It has great steering, good throttle response, great AWD traction and great brakes. However, in my book, the Focus RS fell short in comfort, interior and ride. Dealers were asking a lot of money, over $40k for the RS, but like the Type R, a deal could be found if you shopped around and negotiated. Also, with some owners needing engine replacements due to the block cracking, didn't sit well with me. Again, being a Honda guy, it would take a great car for me to switch brands.

Next up was the Golf R. For me, it drove much better than expected, the test drive was in the pouring rain and the car had loads of grip even on cold slick roads. Interior is top notch, comfortable seats, and infotainment system blows away the one in the Type R. Also, the Golf R has good exhaust note along with some inexpensive tuning options if I ever wanted to add 40-50 hp cheaply and not void the warranty. The Fender audio is also top notch and when the 2018 models arrive, the (Audi) virtual cockpit is very cool. Also, it has the latest driver assist features (like the Honda Sensing Suite). The Golf R is available with either a 6-spd manual or 7-spd DSG which is quick off the line and great if you get stuck in traffic. However, with all the top of the line features, the Golf R is also more expensive than the other two hot hatches, but it is nearly good enough for me to consider owning something other than a Honda.

Then there is the Civic Type R. Like many of you, I lusted after this car. Read everything about it, stopped by the dealerships to check it out. It was the one car I hadn't test driven until last week. When the one came available at CarMax in Jacksonville, FL and I happen to be driving right by there when we were visiting family for Christmas, it was an opportunity I couldn't pass up. I'd bet only a few of you guys got a chance to test drive your Civic Type R prior to purchasing it. As you've read, for me, the Type R was good, but not great. It just didn't check all the boxes for me, and only being FWD, it reminded me a lot of my earlier previous FWD cars when it came to handling. No matter how good a FWD car is, it will never have the sports car feel of a RWD or AWD system. Then there is the interior. Seats fit me well enough, a little snug but no lumbar adjustment. Also, the only thing "Touring" about the CTR is the LED lights. I know I've gotten spoiled with our CR-V Touring, it's got nearly every electronic safety and convenience feature one could ask for. Like the other two hot hatches, it would be a good daily driver and even better track car. If you can get one for MSRP, it's not a bad deal. Before the test drive I said I wouldn't pay over MSRP as a matter of principal, but after the test drive, I won't pay over MSRP because it's still a Civic, there is nothing expensive feeling or feature rich at all in the CTR. You're only paying for a 306 hp engine, FWD specific performance suspension, some aero, Brembo brakes and 20" wheels. Oh, and and a red H badge.

I got to thinking, and being the huge long time Honda fan that I am, I decided to give the 2018 Accord a chance. Again, FWD, but much more refinement. I first drove the 6-spd manual, then the 10-spd automatic. The Accord has lots of comfort and convenience features, and a price tag that makes it a bit of a performance bargain. Spending $7k less and still getting a car that fills most of my needs, with the exception of the occasional track day, spirited mountain run, or a weekend at The Tail of the Dragon, for which if I kept the S2000 would cover that function.

Sure I could keep the S2000 and add the CTR. As a matter of fact, doing so was one of my optional plans. I have enough space that I could garage both cars along with my Wife's CR-V. However, doing so wouldn't be simplifying my life down to two cars (one being the CR-V), something I had originally thought I could do.

Lastly, I have several friends who own Corvettes and I've not totally ruled out going that route either. A C7 Z51 Corvette is a beast, it squashes every performance number of any of the hot hatches or my S2000. It's a serious sports car. The drawback to the Corvette is the high up front cost, the higher cost of ownership, and it's not exactly a great daily driver. That V8 rumble along with auto-rev match is intoxicating. To me, the looks are as good or better than my S2000, no controversy like with the CTR. For you guys that have never driven a C7 Vette, you don't know what you're missing.

So there you have it, I've spent lots of time debating the pros and cons of each of the cars I'm looking at. None of the options are off the table just yet, they just change rank order as I go on test drives .

 

[S2k_Dude]

That tells me @S2k_Dude didn’t really want the car bad enough! Lol.. I jumped all over it when I found out the color I wanted was available for MSRP 700 miles away.. sounds like he was already on the fence about the CTR and now would definitely rather have the accord, or else he woulda done the same. And nothing wrong with the accord! I’m sure it’s a very nice car from what I’ve heard. Seen it, but haven’t never driven one. But it’s a completely diff car. I wanted a raw sports car. I wanted a car that didn’t have an Audi-like interior, or decked out with features, or a super smooth ride. Just depends on what each person wants

I wanted the CTR pretty bad, however, I am not in a hurry to make the purchase. I keep my cars too long to buy something I'm not totally happy with. I've owned a "raw sports car" for the last 15 years. I'd even go so far as to say the S2000 fits the exact definition of a raw sports car. The CTR is a hot hatch, not necessarily a raw sports car, at least not in my book. I'm sure I'm a bit older than you, everyone moves on eventually, the CTR is unique in it's own right but it's not a car for everyone.

This is getting a little (a lot) carried away. Sounds like you are picking the right car for you. But come on. TRUE sports sedan. NEGATIVE. I don't even know where to begin? Brakes wont be good enough. If it pulls more than .90 on the skid pad im shocked, and 0-60 in somewhere 5.1-5.4 (auto)... LSD no! Give me a break. NOT a true sports sedan. I realize we are on a Honda forum but lets keep it real. Sounds like you don't drive hard enough to get what the CTR is about. The Accord 2.0 sport is the right car for you.

Okay then, I'll say the 2018 Accord is Honda's Sports Sedan, possibly the best Accord they've made so far.

S2k_dude coming from rear wheel drive sports car. His expectations will be higher than most people who buy Civic Type R. I can definitely relate to that. It is sad that he cannot keep his S2000. I believe Civic Type R would be a perfect daily driver for him but he needs something to compensate front wheel drive experience for at least a weekend drive (S2000)
I drove front wheel drive cars for way longer than rear wheel drive cars. And all I can add to his decision - you are rarely punch it from the green light on your daily driver even if you expect somebody to race you (unless you are 25 or younger ). So don't let this front drive performance in the straight line influence the overall quality of the car. There is no other car on the market which is best bang for the buck if you get Type R at MRSP.

Your first sentence is right on point, I have some very specific expectations for what I want in a car, but I'm also trying to figure out what I'm going to want to drive for the next 10+ years. I could keep the S2000 and CTR, that's certianly a possibility. It's just that the S2000 is getting on in years, and I'm not crazy about maintaining all three cars. Since I am meticulous about my cars, it takes considerably more effort on my part to keep up 3 cars instead of 2. I'd have to say the Accord Sport 2.0T provides an even better bang for the buck than the CTR, if you look beyond just the engine and suspension, and being as much as $7,000 cheaper is significant, at least to me anyway.

 

[SW20MR2]

^^^
I am in similar "boat" so to speak I have 1991 MR2 Turbo which I maintain and enjoy but it is not practical to be a daily driver ( I do drive it any chance I get). But I am looking for 5 passenger (disappointing CTR is 4 passenger) to be a daily driver. I am in no rush at all and I am not going to pay any markup (even if that means I will miss out on CTR). I plan to keep MR2 though but will get rid of RAV4 "daily" (don't laugh). On the other hand I am different, I understand people who like and choose camrys and accords. For me personally, it is a car, just like RAV4. Big, powerful and gets you from point A to point B. I need a manual transmission to feel a connection with the car. I love to punch it on the turn and have a "spirited" driving experience. And Camrys, Accords and Altimas, no matter how good they are they just not going to deliver that...Just my opinion though.

 

[SpooRk]

I wanted the CTR pretty bad, however, I am not in a hurry to make the purchase. I keep my cars too long to buy something I'm not totally happy with. I've owned a "raw sports car" for the last 15 years. I'd even go so far as to say the S2000 fits the exact definition of a raw sports car. The CTR is a hot hatch, not necessarily a raw sports car, at least not in my book. I'm sure I'm a bit older than you, everyone moves on eventually, the CTR is unique in it's own right but it's not a car for everyone.

Completely agree. I wanted to say the accord was a grown-ups car but didn’t wanna be offensive. Plus it’s not completely true, cause some guys are in their 40s or older and still enjoy it. I’m 30 so who knows how long the CTR will appeal to my daily driving needs. It’s just something I really wanted. I’ve never owned anything like it before. I’ve owned an ap2 but that was not like this car. Obviously a big plus for rwd and convertible. But not practical. I’m not in a position financially to have two cars yet. The CTR I think is perfect for me in that way.

 

[boosted180sx]

No matter how good a FWD car is, it will never have the sports car feel of a RWD or AWD system.

that's exactly why i kept the S2000. for that feel.

 

[Mick the Quick]

i wouldnt be surprised if this was a demo track car for reviewers that honda provides

This type r was abused for sure
GL for 38k they will get a sucker

Well, to be fair, "suckers" paying $45K for a 2018 would jump on a used $38K 2017? Maybe?

 

[Mick the Quick]

Reading your posts, they remind me of what I was thinking about a month or two ago. I am a 70's child, so by now I *should* be driving something dignified and comfortable, and act my age and be anonymous. I knew that I had to get a 6MT . . . for me, no matter how awesome a car is, without manual I would get bored out of my mind after a few months. I wish I don't have this disease, as automatic cars would open up a wide range of choices.

So, in light of my need for a 6MT, I narrowed down the list to a CTR, Golf R, Golf GTI, Focus RS and Accord 2.0 Sport 6MT. RS is not really drivable as a daily on the roads where I live and it costs more, so that was out immediately. Since I was willing to pay the price differential from the R, GTI was out automatically.

There is no doubt that Golf R and Accord Sport are much more comfortable and refined than CTR. No doubt they are better equipped. I was leaning towards buying one of those.

But then I realized that I really was never crazy about cars I have owned such as 550i, Accord V6, 335xi, so on, even though they had a lot of horsepower and torque. They were just too refined . . . . boring. I wanted something raw and visceral. Something I would have an absolute blast driving. I usually take my wife's Accord for trips of decent distance, so long-distance comfort is not an issue, and it has Honda Sensing (which by the way is good but almost totally useless once the novelty wears off).

Any way, just like anything in life, it's all about trade-offs. You have to assign your own weight to each factor to arrive at a decision, and this weighting is different for everyone. Do you marry a ditzy cheerleader or a plain kindergarten teacher? You absolutely know which one you should (and others around you want you to) marry, but sometimes "your heart wants what your heart wants." Until you get a call from Gloria Allred's office.

My advice: go nuts, get a CTR and you will love it. I get excited every time I get into the car - have not felt that way since an M3.

P.S. In my month of ownership, being totally honest, I have not felt to any perceptive degree any torque steer, wheel hop or loss of traction, though I know I don't drive like a maniac (but I do drive pretty aggressively for fun at times). The description of the CTR you test drove made me wonder if it is the same car that I own. Did it have stock tires and wheels? I am a little befuddled . . . . think about it, it's virtually impossible for CTR to win just about every magazine and YouTube comparison tests against AWD hot hatches while exhibiting the extreme traction problems that you encountered.

 

[Civics4Ever]

I would say judging from all the comments that the R is for people in their 20's and for older that doesn't have a family. I am 58, married, but no kids. I may have considered buying an R, but even at MSRP, it's out of my price range. Even so im happy with my Ext. It's the latest Civic I've owned and it's leaps and bounds in features over my previous civics.

 

[charleswrivers]

I kept my Z, a twin turbo 300zx. Had it for years. Put too much money in it. It does collect dust mostly... but it's there when that itch needs scratched.

No matter how much power and performance you pour into a car like a Civic it isn't a sports car. 2 Seats and RWD, at least by my definition. I don't think you've found "The Car" yet. I would hang onto the S2000 and keep looking. As mentioned, there are other options out there. I know I'm going to get my old lady a used Cayman before I kick the bucket. She'd like one once all the kids are grown and gone.

Cars are all about compromise. A sports car compromises a lot to be a great driver's car. As easy to drive and comfortable as my Civic might be, it isn't the pit in my stomach brute that the Z is. No amount of money or even swapping my SI for an R and pouring money into that would change that the Civic isn't a sports car.

 

[S2k_Dude]

Test drove the Accord Sport 2.0T again today. The more I drive it, the more I think it's a feature rich performance bargain of a car. Maybe I'll grab an Accord Sport 2.0T for now, and revisit getting a Type R down the road. I'm exhausted from the crazy dealer pricing for a car that I test drove and wasn't really impressed with for now. Plan B would be to sell/trade the S2000 and find a good low mileage C7 Corvette Z51. It's back to work in the New Year so I won't have much time for car shopping for a while.

 

[fk8_#798]

Test drove the Accord Sport 2.0T again today. The more I drive it, the more I think it's a feature rich performance bargain of a car. Maybe I'll grab an Accord Sport 2.0T for now, and revisit getting a Type R down the road. I'm exhausted from the crazy dealer pricing for a car that I test drove and wasn't really impressed with for now. Plan B would be to sell/trade the S2000 and find a good low mileage C7 Corvette Z51. It's back to work in the New Year so I won't have much time for car shopping for a while.

i personally think the R isn't for you. your expectations were set too high and they were shot down for what ever reason,. to be honest this is the first i hear that the R was a disappointment,. perhaps maybe you were limited to see its potential due to winter and its tires not gripping and the short test drive ?. when i got my R in June my tires gripped hard so i'm shocked how you mention it had horrible wheel spin, did you also try putting her on R mode and pressing traction off with the one beep , and wait for two more beeps before you let go of the button? in order for the dash board to display VSA FULLY DISABLE not just vsa off ? (many people don't know about this option because the USA owners manual is based on the original hatch, the new owners manual is 500 plus pages and reads 2017 hatchback including the type r 2.o and has some cool things listed. truly a fun comfortable car .. sorry to hear this and hope you find the right car suited for your needs.... you do have a bad ass s2000.......

 

[heavyD]

Next up was the Golf R. For me, it drove much better than expected, the test drive was in the pouring rain and the car had loads of grip even on cold slick roads. Interior is top notch, comfortable seats, and infotainment system blows away the one in the Type R. Also, the Golf R has good exhaust note along with some inexpensive tuning options if I ever wanted to add 40-50 hp cheaply and not void the warranty. The Fender audio is also top notch and when the 2018 models arrive, the (Audi) virtual cockpit is very cool. Also, it has the latest driver assist features (like the Honda Sensing Suite). The Golf R is available with either a 6-spd manual or 7-spd DSG which is quick off the line and great if you get stuck in traffic. However, with all the top of the line features, the Golf R is also more expensive than the other two hot hatches, but it is nearly good enough for me to consider owning something other than a Honda.

I know many may disagree but in this day and age infotainment systems are important aspect of daily driving and as an owner of a Golf R with the excellent Discovery Pro system with Fender audio the Civic system feels and looks archaic in comparison and even reviewers call it one of the worst systems available. I'm kind of waiting for 2019 in hopes that Honda addresses the horrible system in Civics as all the cars in this segment have 300 hp and lots of grip and I don't want to settle for a car with such a substandard infotainment system.

 

[boosted180sx]

Test drove the Accord Sport 2.0T again today. The more I drive it, the more I think it's a feature rich performance bargain of a car. Maybe I'll grab an Accord Sport 2.0T for now, and revisit getting a Type R down the road. I'm exhausted from the crazy dealer pricing for a car that I test drove and wasn't really impressed with for now. Plan B would be to sell/trade the S2000 and find a good low mileage C7 Corvette Z51. It's back to work in the New Year so I won't have much time for car shopping for a while.

I know I keep telling you this but lol, I say keep the S2000 and buy the Accord was a daily driver duty. That really sounds perfect for your needs from what I see. I didn't go after the Accord because I already have an ILX to serve as my 4 door DD duties and wanted a car that I can at least carry stuff in. The ILX and the S2000 aren't really big cars. I'm not really big on having a "fun" car as a DD so you know how I feel about Plan B.

Whatever choice you go with, I'm sure you won't regret it though. GL on whatever you decide to do.

i personally think the R isn't for you. your expectations were set too high and they were shot down for what ever reason,. to be honest this is the first i hear that the R was a disappointment,.

It's normal for something to disappoint you when the expectations are set too high and the surrounding hype that goes along with it. My expectations wasn't all that high since I went into buying this car knowing it was FWD and the limitation of the drivetrain. I had a supercharged 9th gen that i traded in so hopping into the R was a totally different beast. My 9th gen had tons of torque steer and the flat torque curve of the SC made it super boring to drive. If I floor first from a rolling start, it does spin the tires but it's wasn't horrible by any means. How often are you really flooring it in first gear on a day to day drive or on the track though.

I know many may disagree but in this day and age infotainment systems are important aspect of daily driving and as an owner of a Golf R with the excellent Discovery Pro system with Fender audio the Civic system feels and looks archaic in comparison and even reviewers call it one of the worst systems available. I'm kind of waiting for 2019 in hopes that Honda addresses the horrible system in Civics as all the cars in this segment have 300 hp and lots of grip and I don't want to settle for a car with such a substandard infotainment system.

I agree with you. infotainment was one of the reasons why I didn't choose the RS lol. Golf R wasn't on my list so not sure how that infotainment is but I don't think Hondas infotainment system is THAT bad. I prefer it over many of the other manufacturers systems.

 

[fk8_#798]

I know I keep telling you this but lol, I say keep the S2000 and buy the Accord was a daily driver duty. That really sounds perfect for your needs from what I see. I didn't go after the Accord because I already have an ILX to serve as my 4 door DD duties and wanted a car that I can at least carry stuff in. The ILX and the S2000 aren't really big cars. I'm not really big on having a "fun" car as a DD so you know how I feel about Plan B.

Whatever choice you go with, I'm sure you won't regret it though. GL on whatever you decide to do.


It's normal for something to disappoint you when the expectations are set too high and the surrounding hype that goes along with it. My expectations wasn't all that high since I went into buying this car knowing it was FWD and the limitation of the drivetrain. I had a supercharged 9th gen that i traded in so hopping into the R was a totally different beast. My 9th gen had tons of torque steer and the flat torque curve of the SC made it super boring to drive. If I floor first from a rolling start, it does spin the tires but it's wasn't horrible by any means. How often are you really flooring it in first gear on a day to day drive or on the track though.

I agree with you. infotainment was one of the reasons why I didn't choose the RS lol. Golf R wasn't on my list so not sure how that infotainment is but I don't think Hondas infotainment system is THAT bad. I prefer it over many of the other manufacturers systems.

True good point I have a 2015 fully built si forged engine and tranny ,. Massive engine work ,. And my wheel hop was horrible,. I manage to control the wheel hop and spin with Hondata traction control and a lsd and stick tires so I totally understand,. I definitely don’t floor the R daily nor track it , just have fun with it since it’s my dd and my si is my racer so I agree, my usage for the R is different then most as I don’t tend to mod it much , just help her breath better and currently with only the motec m1 a 5k retuning ecu avail I doubt I would mod it lol as I’m not spending 5 k on something I’m not gonna fully take advantage of . Well bro I truly hope u find ur true car,. Over all I admire u for not choosing a car just because ! Awesome

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