My friend blew his motor on TSP stage 2

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gtman

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Saz...

Yep. Agree to disagree but there's a good way and bad way to do it. The guys that say the starting point to most failures is a tune is undeniable. But there has to be a reason some people never have issues and others do. It's why I started the tuning reliability survey. To kind of see if there was a pattern. So far, the pattern I see is there is a safe limit to increasing power. Most base tunes seem to fair well with a stock setup. Power adders like bolt ons change the equation and sometimes driving habits or poor choices like anti-lag increase the chance of problems.

Tunes really wake up the car and can transform the drive. Going too far with a tune can blow them up.

That's my point and I'm sticking with it.
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amirza786

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Do we have a thread for known failures, for ppl to document
what car/engine
what tune,
what mods,
what fuel,
circumstances leading up to failure,
and any additional info that may per pertinent?

Or something similar for ppl to post and document failures in. It would make it way easier to track the data and perhaps even show commonalities between failures.
I totally agree with this if one does not exist already. This would make things more scientific and would point to either a tune alone, a specific tune, or a contributing factor to the tune (s), which to me is usually what contributes to a blown engine
 

laz's SI

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Is it safe to say that it’s more of the Tsp Stage 2 tunes than stage 1?
 

gtman

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FlexRex

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@gtman so i briefly looked at the thread you linked, which is basically very similar to what i suggested, but some ppl there have not tuned their vehicles at all.

So while there may be only 5 failures out of 173 surveys, only 100 cars could have been tuned no? Are you or someone keeping track of how many of the 173 are oem/stock calibrated cars?

Also, tuning solutions numbers add to >173 surveys, is that because some ppl used/tried both? Then theres 37 custom tunes.. which i feel should be differentiated (and subtracted) from canned tune numbers, if that makes sense. I could be also reading it wrong but there are 173 surveys and over 210 tuned vehicles (when you add ktuner, hondata, jb1 and custom).
 
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gtman

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@gtman so i briefly looked at the thread you linked, which is basically very similar to what i suggested, but some ppl there have not tuned their vehicles at all.

So while there may be only 5 failures out of 173 surveys, only 100 cars could have been tuned no? Are you or someone keeping track of how many of the 173 are oem/stock calibrated cars?

Also, tuning solutions numbers add to >173 surveys, is that because some ppl used/tried both? Then theres 37 custom tunes.. which i feel should be differentiated (and subtracted) from canned tune numbers, if that makes sense. I could be also reading it wrong but there are 173 surveys and over 210 tuned vehicles (when you add ktuner, hondata, jb1 and custom).
No. I'm only counting actual tuned members that submitted surveys. You're welcome to double check all responses. I've tried to be very meticulous.

Only two surveys were done by non tuned members and they weren't counted.

You are misinterpreting some numbers. Some people (myself included) have used both Hondata and KTuner. Those numbers represent that. The custom tunes were developed on KTuner or Hondata. Look, I worked my ass off on putting that together and get paid exactly $0. And I care about the community.
 
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FlexRex

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@gtman, wasnt complaining as much as trying to understand what the numbers mean. I suspected the 210 is total of all tunes tried, some ppl would have tried multiples.
 


gtman

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I think it's pretty clear there are several camps in this debate.

1. The group that thinks tuning is absolutely foolish.

2. The group that tunes for ultimate power and maybe disregards the potential for disaster.

3. The group that feels like the available canned tunes are likely to cause problems.

4. The group that thinks the canned tunes are basically mild and while they do create some risk, feel it's worth the "educated gamble".

I guess I'm a #4 but I understand why others feel strongly the way they do.
 
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Gotch

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Dear FlexRex, do you own a xgen Civic yet?

If you do, congrats! One of the best cars out there!

If you don’t, can’t compare these with Subbies or VDubs tuned.

Suffice it to say, basemaps and TSP Stage 1 are most likely “safe” on otherwise stock xgens. Add anything else (especially E85) and game over on the stock injectors and internals. I’m over 40k(kms) tuned, no engine or clutch issues. I don’t baby it but I don’t beat the piss out of it either.

Start adding in aftermarket DPs, intercoolers, intakes and alcomahol, all bets are off.
 

PowerPerLiter

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Dear FlexRex, do you own a xgen Civic yet?

If you do, congrats! One of the best cars out there!

If you don’t, can’t compare these with Subbies or VDubs tuned.

Suffice it to say, basemaps and TSP Stage 1 are most likely “safe” on otherwise stock xgens. Add anything else (especially E85) and game over on the stock injectors and internals. I’m over 40k(kms) tuned, no engine or clutch issues. I don’t baby it but I don’t beat the piss out of it either.

Start adding in aftermarket DPs, intercoolers, intakes and alcomahol, all bets are off.
The bolt ons are more of a common denominator than "tunes" are in my opinion.

I know what I wouldn't do with one.

What used to be "simple" changes back in the day are potentially super dramatic now. Intakes, inter coolers and down pipes..... HUGE effect.... when on the stock tune or a canned tune. No bueno.

Alot of people are literally driving around depending on the Honda engineering to keep the car alive every time they jump throttle....
 

FlexRex

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@Gotch .. just so I understand, if i dont own a xgen civic i cant look at data and threads objectively and draw conclusions?

Why wouldnt i be able to “compare” to subies or vdubs, is it cuz its head above the rest being the best? Would owning one make me know for certain what works and what doesn’t?

I think its not prudent to say with authority whats safe and isnt cuz a) you aint responsible for any damages and b) your claims cant be supported conclusively. Perhaps adjust your statement to include “i think” first.

I think that like any other platform, the more you push the more likely things will break. Add to that the fact that ppl are cheap but want all the power and run ots tunes w hardware the tune wasnt designed for.

As far as ethanol and injector issues, i think that Hondata knows better than us. They didnt release their flex tune for ctr cuz they felt it wasnt ready for it without upgrades. They released flex tunes for xgen si, so i would assume they think its reliable enough. But add to that idiots that run full e85 and other mods on a flex ots map thats calibrated to e40 and not to hardware (that some ppl add) on these cars and you got a recipe for disaster.

Thats what i think, even though i dont own an si.
 
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PowerPerLiter

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I so used to be the opposite of what im about to say.........

Im in the leave them COMPLETELY alone camp.

Sigh.

Can't believe I'm admitting that after the INSANE amount of time I spent dissecting my old one.

If it was my only play thing I would feel different. If I ever go down the same road again with my 2020 I absolutely WILL EXPECT problems to arise eventually.
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