My First Oil Analysis at 75K miles. OIL DILUTION???

[dallasjhawk]

So I got my FIRST oil analysis at 75k miles on my car. This sample has 7900 miles on it and needless to say, what oil dilution? I did the sample "cold" only 4 minutes of driving so that is where the trace comes from. Also Ive been tuned on @KTuner for 50k hard driven miles from base maps, to custom 93 and e30 tune and now TSP so you know I dont baby this engine. I'm extremely happy with this 3 years in and look forward to driving her for a few more years.

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[Hondu]

So I got my FIRST oil analysis at 75k miles on my car. This sample has 7900 miles on it and needless to say, what oil dilution? I did the sample "cold" only 4 minutes of driving so that is where the trace comes from. Also Ive been tuned on @KTuner for 50k hard driven miles from base maps, to custom 93 and e30 tune and now TSP so you know I dont baby this engine. I'm extremely happy with this 3 years in and look forward to driving her for a few more years.

Well, Blackstone fuel level analysis is not accurate, since they do not measure it with gas chromatography. I would not agree with their assessment, since your flash point is low and your oil is out of grade, both which suggest you do suffer from fuel dilution. Looks like it is a good thing you switched to a 5W-30 oil, since your wear metals look good (I wonder how your engine would have ran using a 0W-20 oil).

 

[dallasjhawk]

Well, Blackstone fuel level analysis is not accurate, since they do not measure it with gas chromatography. I would not agree with their assessment, since your flash point is low and your oil is out of grade, both which suggest you do suffer from fuel dilution. Looks like it is a good thing you switched to a 5W-30 oil, since your wear metals look good (I wonder how your engine would have ran using a 0W-20 oil).

It's barely under, so maybe 3% dilution but the engine is wearing fine and it tip top shape. That's why oil dilution hysteria is stupid. Its literally nothing unless its severe and degrading the engine. Polaris labs is next. I ran 0-20 for the first 45k miles and then switched.

 

[Andre80]

it is a bit like the hysteria of checking all the data of ktuner and hondata, eye does not see heart does not hurt

We're doing a maria of mental saws

 

[hobby-man]

Well, Blackstone fuel level analysis is not accurate, since they do not measure it with gas chromatography. I would not agree with their assessment, since your flash point is low and your oil is out of grade, both which suggest you do suffer from fuel dilution. Looks like it is a good thing you switched to a 5W-30 oil, since your wear metals look good (I wonder how your engine would have ran using a 0W-20 oil).

Can you explain what test you're looking at, and why you think GC is the only validated method for performing it?

 

[Andre80]

More crv was taxi

The dilution is physiological, remember to warm up the motor in motion and do not make stops with the engine idling, these two things are enough to keep the dilution controlled and normal.

then the isolated cases always exist

my opinion

 

[Gruber]

Well, Blackstone fuel level analysis is not accurate, since they do not measure it with gas chromatography. I would not agree with their assessment, since your flash point is low and your oil is out of grade, both which suggest you do suffer from fuel dilution. Looks like it is a good thing you switched to a 5W-30 oil, since your wear metals look good (I wonder how your engine would have ran using a 0W-20 oil).

You can't disagree with their assessment, because the lower flash point is exactly how they assessed oil dilution to be less than 2%. You don't have any better method to estimate it based on their flashpoint data. The flashpoint method of measuring oil dilution is not very accurate, even can be barely called quantitative, but that's what is available.

Yes, GC can be much more accurate, but it requires well trained operators. Different oils and fuels are made up of a lot of different components. Frankly, GC analysis of oil dilution may require a person with a Ph.D. or at least very solid science background and long experience to supervise it. Otherwise it could be even more off than the simple flash point test.

 

[Hondu]

It's barely under, so maybe 3% dilution but the engine is wearing fine and it tip top shape. That's why oil dilution hysteria is stupid. Its literally nothing unless its severe and degrading the engine. Polaris labs is next. I ran 0-20 for the first 45k miles and then switched.

I agree that your wear numbers are still excellent for this analysis and the fuel dilution issue in the 1.5L engines are somewhat overhyped. You do live in a nice warm climate, so that does help as well, but I don't recall seeing an analysis yet on the 1.5T that shows fuel dilution and extremely high wear numbers (I'm not counting the reports on engines that are still breaking in).

I think though the jury is still out on the long term affects of the fuel dilution. When I say long term effects, I mean 10-15 years over 200,000 miles.

 

[Hondu]

You can't disagree with their assessment, because the lower flash point is exactly how they assessed oil dilution to be less than 2%. You don't have any better method to estimate it based on their flashpoint data. The flashpoint method of measuring oil dilution is not very accurate, even can be barely called quantitative, but that's what is available.

Yes, GC can be much more accurate, but it requires well trained operators. Different oils and fuels are made up of a lot of different components. Frankly, GC analysis of oil dilution may require a person with a Ph.D. or at least very solid science background and long experience to supervise it. Otherwise it could be even more off than the simple flash point test.

Yes I can. All you need to use is Oil Analyzers for the used oil analysis, since they do actually offer GC to test fuel dilution.

https://www.oaitesting.com/about.aspx

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru.../2018-civic-si-18-285-on-car-4006-on-rl-5w-30

 

[Gruber]

Yes I can. All you need to use is Oil Analyzers for the used oil analysis, since they do actually offer GC to test fuel dilution.

https://www.oaitesting.com/about.aspx

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru.../2018-civic-si-18-285-on-car-4006-on-rl-5w-30

No, you can't, because you don't have any other test results on his oil. So, as I said in the post above, you can't question their results by flash point.
You can say that the accuracy of the flashpoint method is limited in general, but you can't say they did it wrong, since you have zero basis for it when you say: "I would not agree with their assessment, since your flash point is low and your oil is out of grade, both which suggest you do suffer from fuel dilution."

Besides, you didn't even check what Oil Analyzers actually offer. According to your links, their standard oil dilution test is by FTIR (why not GC?). FTIR is quick and easy alright, but the results are only a ballpark. For small % of contaminants FTIR is basically useless, because the peaks assigned to fuel components will be drowned in the background. Yes, the computer program will print some number but nobody at this company will understand how it was determined....

If they do offer on demand some special individual tests by GC, ask them how much it costs.

The quote below is true:
https://www.spectrosci.com/resource...re/e-guides/guide-to-measuring-fuel-dilution/

"FTIR spectroscopy offers a fast, user-friendly measurement for fuel dilution, however it is not easy to distinguish between fuel hydrocarbons and those present in the base oil. It is very difficult to achieve accurate results. Calibration requires large datasets of a narrow scope of sample type in order to develop complex algorithms correlating the spectrum to fuel dilution. For this reason, FTIR is not widely used for fuel dilution measurement."

 

[Hondu]

No, you can't, because you don't have any other test results on his oil. So, as I said in the post above, you can't question their results by flash point.
You can say that the accuracy of the flashpoint method is limited in general, but you can't say they did it wrong, since you have zero basis for it when you say: "I would not agree with their assessment, since your flash point is low and your oil is out of grade, both which suggest you do suffer from fuel dilution."

Besides, you didn't even check what Oil Analyzers actually offer. According to your links, their standard oil dilution test is by FTIR (why not GC?). FTIR is quick and easy alright, but the results are only a ballpark. For small % of contaminants FTIR is basically useless, because the peaks assigned to fuel components will be drowned in the background. Yes, the computer program will print some number but nobody at this company will understand how it was determined....

If they do offer on demand some special individual tests by GC, ask them how much it costs.

The quote below is true:
https://www.spectrosci.com/resource...re/e-guides/guide-to-measuring-fuel-dilution/

"FTIR spectroscopy offers a fast, user-friendly measurement for fuel dilution, however it is not easy to distinguish between fuel hydrocarbons and those present in the base oil. It is very difficult to achieve accurate results. Calibration requires large datasets of a narrow scope of sample type in order to develop complex algorithms correlating the spectrum to fuel dilution. For this reason, FTIR is not widely used for fuel dilution measurement."

Maybe we can agree to disagree, because I can disagree with their assessment no matter whether you feel I can or can't.

If you checked the link I sent you, someone with a Civic Si sent an oil sample to Oil Analyzers and they measured his fuel dilution using GC (3.6% to 5.0%). I really don't care what it costs, but they can do the test if you request they use GC. Obviously is was worth it for the owner of the Civic Si to have the GC test done. You can also review the UOA database sticky right on this website and you can see multiple people used Oil Analyzers and had fuel dilution analyzed with GC.

Dallas could easily take another future used oil sample and send it to Oil Analyzers (or better yet, take two samples, send one to Blackstone and one to OA) to get GC for fuel dilution.

As I've said, either way, his wear numbers look good and he is using a 5W-30 oil, which works for his oil change interval and driving habits, even though it fell out of a 30 grade (and into a 20 weight), which is really the whole point of a used oil analysis.

 

[saiko21]

Why are you using 30 grade when the recommended grade is 20 by honda?

 

[dallasjhawk]

Why are you using 30 grade when the recommended grade is 20 by honda?

Well mostly because I live in hot climate and I prefer the heavier weight over the water thin 0-20. Plus @k20z3allmotor who works on these motors all the time recommended it for people who are doing more than just daily driving. Im tuned and I run my car pretty hard. And lastly,0-20 is literally for EPA CAFE standards and MPGs. If you read the owners manuals for Euro cars, it specifically says if 0-20 isnt available 5-30 is fine. Now I'm not making any recommendations to anyone or saying one is better than the other but I believe my Oil Analysis, whether you agree with how fuel dilution is tested or not, still shows my engine to be in great shape

 

[Andre80]

I agree with you

 

[Hondu]

Well mostly because I live in hot climate and I prefer the heavier weight over the water thin 0-20. Plus @k20z3allmotor who works on these motors all the time recommended it for people who are doing more than just daily driving. Im tuned and I run my car pretty hard. And lastly,0-20 is literally for EPA CAFE standards and MPGs. If you read the owners manuals for Euro cars, it specifically says if 0-20 isnt available 5-30 is fine. Now I'm not making any recommendations to anyone or saying one is better than the other but I believe my Oil Analysis, whether you agree with how fuel dilution is tested or not, still shows my engine to be in great shape

I would agree on using a 5W-30 oil and think it is a good choice for you. I have a 2019, but my plans are to use 0W/5W-30 as well, since the 1.5T seems to actually run better with the heavier oil. My daughter's 2009 Fit has used 5W-20 and 5W-30 over its life (140,000 miles now), even though the manual calls for 5W-20 and it runs great and consumes no oil.

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