My first ever track day/HPDE - what I learned

toddrhodes

Senior Member
First Name
Todd
Joined
May 21, 2018
Threads
20
Messages
705
Reaction score
754
Location
Indiana
Vehicle(s)
'18 CTR #16979, '18 Odyssey
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
Went to Gingerman today, in South Haven, MI as a novice in a CGI HPDE. Had an instructor (Mark Phillips) for all of my laps and will definitely go that route at least one more time.

First off, this was the first time I'd ever tracked a car outside a drag strip. I went to learn, to be a better driver and I think I succeeded in that. I and my car made it home without any issues, in fact the car performed very, very well.

So, things I learned, in no particular order. My mods are in my sig, more on that in a bit. This will probably be lengthy:

First thing's first - I was pretty terrified to get out there initially. Don't know why, I know how to drive pretty well, but this was just a different ballgame.
The first real hot laps were a mess. Trying to take instruction, get familiar with the track, not worry about the cars around me - it was too much at first. My head was pretty much spinning.
Lines that people follow in a video, or on a video game, or even that you envision on a public road, are nothing like on the track. I mean yea there is some crossover but actually executing them is something I will really have to work at to get better. I was overconfident in this regard and was in for a rude awakening - it's just not as easy as it seemed.
This car hauls ass. It hauls more ass than I can at this point, but that was kinda the point in going in the first place.
This car is really fun to drive and is actually great to learn on. It never stepped out of line, never penalized me for a minor mistake. It did, however, make me look better than I actually am based on what some folks at the track were saying (good things).
I pointed several cars by, and I got pointed by several times. Even once in a turn and my instructor said to go for it, and so I did, and apparently did pretty OK with it.
If you have any intention to modify your car and take the CTR to the track - take it to the track first. It will surprise you with how good it is. And if you're new like I was, absolutely no modification you can make will make a bigger difference to your experience than taking the proper line and driving smoothly.
Basically, my mods today became noise generators (good ones) and cooling mods. That's it. They didn't make it easier to catch that car in front of me; the right line and good braking did. And they didn't prevent that car from catching me - a better line and better braking did on the part of that other driver.
Track-prepped S2000s are incredible machines, I got to ride in one owned by my instructor and it was amazing.
The event today is only now starting to sink in. Leaving the track I didn't think I'd really miss being out there. Sitting here typing this out, I kinda do!
Depending on how you are with the stock brakes, they may be the first weak spot to present themselves. I was hard on the brakes today, being too conservative. They don't really like that. Once I learned to brake a little later, a little harder, and get off them - they held up better.
I wrestled with the car quite a bit today. As a result I'm a little sore and still plenty tired. I think that will get better as I learn how to work with the car, not against it.

Things I took with me - spare wheel/tire, torque wrench, lug nut sockets, first aid kit, helmet, snacks, water, laptop, chargers, Honda oil, Honda brake fluid, and a jack. Fortunately I ended up not needing to use any of it, really. What I forgot - a chair. I'll bring a bag chair next time, and a tarp to set stuff on and provide cover if the weather turns. Oh, and I did take out track day insurance. Doubt I'd do that next time in the beginner group but it was nice to learn today without any fear of "what if." Gingerman is a very, very safe track and with the CTR being as neutral and forgiving as it can be, the risk is really pretty low unless you're sending it when you have no business doing so.

I think that's it. I hope this helps some people.
Sponsored

 

Arcam

Senior Member
First Name
Eddie
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Threads
2
Messages
88
Reaction score
27
Location
UK
Vehicle(s)
2018 CTR
Country flag
Went to Gingerman today, in South Haven, MI as a novice in a CGI HPDE. Had an instructor (Mark Phillips) for all of my laps and will definitely go that route at least one more time.

First off, this was the first time I'd ever tracked a car outside a drag strip. I went to learn, to be a better driver and I think I succeeded in that. I and my car made it home without any issues, in fact the car performed very, very well.

So, things I learned, in no particular order. My mods are in my sig, more on that in a bit. This will probably be lengthy:

First thing's first - I was pretty terrified to get out there initially. Don't know why, I know how to drive pretty well, but this was just a different ballgame.
The first real hot laps were a mess. Trying to take instruction, get familiar with the track, not worry about the cars around me - it was too much at first. My head was pretty much spinning.
Lines that people follow in a video, or on a video game, or even that you envision on a public road, are nothing like on the track. I mean yea there is some crossover but actually executing them is something I will really have to work at to get better. I was overconfident in this regard and was in for a rude awakening - it's just not as easy as it seemed.
This car hauls ass. It hauls more ass than I can at this point, but that was kinda the point in going in the first place.
This car is really fun to drive and is actually great to learn on. It never stepped out of line, never penalized me for a minor mistake. It did, however, make me look better than I actually am based on what some folks at the track were saying (good things).
I pointed several cars by, and I got pointed by several times. Even once in a turn and my instructor said to go for it, and so I did, and apparently did pretty OK with it.
If you have any intention to modify your car and take the CTR to the track - take it to the track first. It will surprise you with how good it is. And if you're new like I was, absolutely no modification you can make will make a bigger difference to your experience than taking the proper line and driving smoothly.
Basically, my mods today became noise generators (good ones) and cooling mods. That's it. They didn't make it easier to catch that car in front of me; the right line and good braking did. And they didn't prevent that car from catching me - a better line and better braking did on the part of that other driver.
Track-prepped S2000s are incredible machines, I got to ride in one owned by my instructor and it was amazing.
The event today is only now starting to sink in. Leaving the track I didn't think I'd really miss being out there. Sitting here typing this out, I kinda do!
Depending on how you are with the stock brakes, they may be the first weak spot to present themselves. I was hard on the brakes today, being too conservative. They don't really like that. Once I learned to brake a little later, a little harder, and get off them - they held up better.
I wrestled with the car quite a bit today. As a result I'm a little sore and still plenty tired. I think that will get better as I learn how to work with the car, not against it.

Things I took with me - spare wheel/tire, torque wrench, lug nut sockets, first aid kit, helmet, snacks, water, laptop, chargers, Honda oil, Honda brake fluid, and a jack. Fortunately I ended up not needing to use any of it, really. What I forgot - a chair. I'll bring a bag chair next time, and a tarp to set stuff on and provide cover if the weather turns. Oh, and I did take out track day insurance. Doubt I'd do that next time in the beginner group but it was nice to learn today without any fear of "what if." Gingerman is a very, very safe track and with the CTR being as neutral and forgiving as it can be, the risk is really pretty low unless you're sending it when you have no business doing so.

I think that's it. I hope this helps some people.
That's a great write up for your first trackday, the brain fade you experienced is normal, once you know where the track is going and you can get into a rhythm the load reduces somewhat leaving more brain power for braking/turn in points etc.

You did a good thing taking an instructor for the day, I still take a session or 2 just to stamp on any bad habits I might have picked up between seasons and a good one can raise your learning curve considerably.

Brakes and then tyres are the first mods to look at on generally any track focused car, as you found the CTR responds better to harder and shorter use of the brakes, smoothness is the key.

I am off to the Nurburgring this weekend for 4 days on track and you article reminded me of my first visit there and the steep learning curve that followed for many years afterwards.
 

Zeffy94

Senior Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Threads
77
Messages
1,850
Reaction score
1,486
Location
Doylestown, PA
Vehicle(s)
2017 Mazda3 GT Hatch 6AT, 2018 Honda Civic Type R (traded in)
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
I’m nervous to take it to a track because I don’t want make some dumb mistake and ruin my car. I think that’s a fear that is over exaggerated in my mind but...(doesn’t help that I just saw a video of a CTR owner who wrecked his on a track...)

Sounds like yours went well though. It may yet give me the courage to take mine to a track this summer.
 
OP
OP
toddrhodes

toddrhodes

Senior Member
First Name
Todd
Joined
May 21, 2018
Threads
20
Messages
705
Reaction score
754
Location
Indiana
Vehicle(s)
'18 CTR #16979, '18 Odyssey
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
I’m nervous to take it to a track because I don’t want make some dumb mistake and ruin my car. I think that’s a fear that is over exaggerated in my mind but...(doesn’t help that I just saw a video of a CTR owner who wrecked his on a track...)

Sounds like yours went well though. It may yet give me the courage to take mine to a track this summer.

Trust me, I know exactly how you feel. My timeline went like this:

March - bought the track day package, wishing it were the next day I was so excited
April - starting to dread the track day. But, just worked on other stuff and didn't try to think about it too much
May - two weeks out, I was in full on "I don't really want to do this" mode. But for better or worse - no refunds, so suck it up, junior (I was saying this to myself.)
Then Flyin' Gato wrecks, I start seeing other pictures of issues at the track, and I'm pretty much nervous as all hell. Definitely not excited.
I decide to go with Haggerty for Track Day Insurance. This wasn't cheap, but it REALLY helped calm me down. I did it because that way I could focus on learning, not on "not wrecking my car." This is very, very important.

Track Day arrives. Still scared because it wasn't really real until you start seeing cars hit the track and you understand this isn't a playground, this is a place for focus and speed. Instructor drove the first couple laps which helped but honestly, I don't even remember what we talked about in those first three laps.

BUT - your instructor simply will not let you screw up so long as you keep your ego in check. Trust me when I say the CTR is an excellent car to learn on. I kept auto rev match on (always do, really) because it's just one less set of motions to think about. There were points where his hand was on the wheel also, guiding me through the right line and if you need to step aside to get some clear track to work on a part or three? Fine, it's easy, don't sweat it. And just try to forget most of what you think you know from "spirited" street driving. There were lines on this relatively simple track which seemed completely counterintuitive but once you execute them properly, the light goes on and you understand why it's so critical.

Even after two sessions, I was still unsure. I made a rookie mistake on one lap with respect to passing and found the guy later who was affected by it, apologized and all was good. Definitely, definitely leave your pride at home.

You have nothing to prove to anyone and be damn sure - you're not going to impress anyone for a very long time. It's a sharp learning curve and everyone who has been there before understands that. Go at your own pace and just shake off any perceived pressure you think you're getting from other drivers or your instructor.

The good news is that after a few reps, the nerves settle, the confidence starts to build, and your feel for the car and the track builds. I started to come out of my shell toward the end of the day, interacting with other people there to drive, and generally had a fantastic time. But, even on the ride home I wasn't sure how I really felt about it. But with just a little time and reflection, I'm absolutely thrilled I did it and am looking more forward now to going back than I was. I'll still get an instructor (probably a different one to get multiple points of view) and you just have to focus on fundamentals, lines, and braking. Do those right and speed comes in time. Don't go out there trying to be fast, that's how people screw up.
 


racer

Senior Member
First Name
Dave
Joined
Jul 31, 2018
Threads
0
Messages
639
Reaction score
400
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2018 Civic Si sedan.
Country flag
Glad you went out and had some fun at the track. And glad you learned that even a stock car can be fun. Lots of people think you have to mod up your car to go to the track. you don't. What you need is seat time. Retraining your brain, eyes, hands to work in unison at something new takes time. HP means diddly squat as anyone can press on a gas peddle. Learning how to brake, corner, feel a car slide and recover etc are so much more fun imho (mostly because all my track cars have been low hp cars ;) )

As mentioned, brakes and tires are the first issues because they are the ones you feel first. Get air to the brakes, use a good Dot 4 fluid. Tires are the easy way to go fast.. but learning how to manage your tires is key as it teaches you to balance the car and your inputs. Really sticky tires hide lots of errors.

I encourage everyone to try something like this once.. if not on a track, at least go out and try and Autocross. Something to help you be a better driver is the one mod you can put in any car you are in!
 

CWNole95

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Threads
24
Messages
428
Reaction score
354
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
'23 CW FL5 #775, '23 SGP FL5 #10771, 2005 NFR S2K
Country flag
Thanks for sharing. I remember doing an ITR Expo back at Gingerman in the early 2000s. (2003 I believe). Good times.

As someone else mentioned in this thread, I strongly urge everyone able to participate in an HPDE at least once. It is incredible what you can learn about yourself as a driver, as well as what a competent in-car instructor can teach you. Apart from the learning aspect, it can be incredibly enjoyable and exhilarating to drive legally "at speed".

Glad you had a good time and are itching to get back. Track days and racing can become quite addictive. I know this first hand as I raced an ITR for several years, after years of completing schooling and track days. Some of the best times of my life were experienced at the track, both during races and during great times in the paddock with fellow drivers and their respective families.

Regarding the soreness, much of that usually has to do with the amount of tension drivers have while on track. As you become more comfortable, you will soon see that you will become less tired and less sore, because your inputs are smoother and you are more "loose" in the cockpit.

I could write so much more, but am unfortunately at work at the moment. But, I did want to comment on something incredibly wise and astute you stated: "Leave your pride at home". I wish everyone would practice this when beginning their respective journeys into track driving. That is OUTSTANDING advice.
 
OP
OP
toddrhodes

toddrhodes

Senior Member
First Name
Todd
Joined
May 21, 2018
Threads
20
Messages
705
Reaction score
754
Location
Indiana
Vehicle(s)
'18 CTR #16979, '18 Odyssey
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
Glad you went out and had some fun at the track. And glad you learned that even a stock car can be fun. Lots of people think you have to mod up your car to go to the track. you don't. What you need is seat time. Retraining your brain, eyes, hands to work in unison at something new takes time. HP means diddly squat as anyone can press on a gas peddle. Learning how to brake, corner, feel a car slide and recover etc are so much more fun imho (mostly because all my track cars have been low hp cars ;) )

As mentioned, brakes and tires are the first issues because they are the ones you feel first. Get air to the brakes, use a good Dot 4 fluid. Tires are the easy way to go fast.. but learning how to manage your tires is key as it teaches you to balance the car and your inputs. Really sticky tires hide lots of errors.

I encourage everyone to try something like this once.. if not on a track, at least go out and try and Autocross. Something to help you be a better driver is the one mod you can put in any car you are in!

Just to be clear, my car is actually modified quite a bit. I tried to do so with regard to keeping things as cool as possible (FMIC, E85, turbo blanket, gold wrap, etc...) but there are a couple things that are just purely "power adders." What I determined rather quickly was that any "power" those things might add didn't matter. And since it was a 55* day, it was going to say pretty cool either way but it won't be like that for long, warmer weather is on the way. On a track where half a fender length determines the right or wrong line, that 8 whp I got from a better downpipe was just erased, and then some.

There's more to mods than just how much power they make or what they do for your times, but I definitely got some relief from the mod bug after actually getting out there.

Except for possibly pads, rotors, and better fluid, lol :D
 

racer

Senior Member
First Name
Dave
Joined
Jul 31, 2018
Threads
0
Messages
639
Reaction score
400
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2018 Civic Si sedan.
Country flag
Just to be clear, my car is actually modified quite a bit. I tried to do so with regard to keeping things as cool as possible (FMIC, E85, turbo blanket, gold wrap, etc...) but there are a couple things that are just purely "power adders."
I know.. i saw the list.. I liked that you realized that modding a car is not needed to go on track.

An oldie but a good one:
 
OP
OP
toddrhodes

toddrhodes

Senior Member
First Name
Todd
Joined
May 21, 2018
Threads
20
Messages
705
Reaction score
754
Location
Indiana
Vehicle(s)
'18 CTR #16979, '18 Odyssey
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
I know.. i saw the list.. I liked that you realized that modding a car is not needed to go on track.

An oldie but a good one:
OMG, that was hilarious.
 


ucf_bronco

Member
First Name
Richie
Joined
May 9, 2019
Threads
0
Messages
22
Reaction score
16
Location
Orlando, FL
Vehicle(s)
2019 Honda Civic Type R
Country flag
Nice write-up OP. I'll likely never track my Type R but I enjoy reading about others experiences.

I thought your name looked familiar, so I checked the only place I would recognize it...Acurazine. I see that we both made the move from a 6MT TL to the Type R. Seems like a natural progression, haha. My username was the same on that site as well.
 
OP
OP
toddrhodes

toddrhodes

Senior Member
First Name
Todd
Joined
May 21, 2018
Threads
20
Messages
705
Reaction score
754
Location
Indiana
Vehicle(s)
'18 CTR #16979, '18 Odyssey
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
Nice write-up OP. I'll likely never track my Type R but I enjoy reading about others experiences.

I thought your name looked familiar, so I checked the only place I would recognize it...Acurazine. I see that we both made the move from a 6MT TL to the Type R. Seems like a natural progression, haha. My username was the same on that site as well.
I agree! Outside of the newest NSX we've owned the most powerful Honda production cars :) So different, yet you can still pick up the DNA out of each. A really good buddy of mine has my old TL now.

Just wish I could sell these stupid OZ wheels I bought for the TL, then used temporarily on the CTR, lol.
 

kevv_FK8

Senior Member
First Name
Kevin
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Threads
9
Messages
446
Reaction score
269
Location
Indianapolis
Vehicle(s)
2018 Type R, 2022 Honda Pilot SE, 2013 Honda Civic
Country flag
great write up! glad you had fun over all out there!
 

ipeefreely

Senior Member
First Name
Will
Joined
Jun 4, 2018
Threads
22
Messages
586
Reaction score
939
Location
Bay Area, California
Vehicle(s)
2017 Ford Raptor / 2019 CTR
Country flag
Just to be clear, my car is actually modified quite a bit. I tried to do so with regard to keeping things as cool as possible (FMIC, E85, turbo blanket, gold wrap, etc...) but there are a couple things that are just purely "power adders." What I determined rather quickly was that any "power" those things might add didn't matter. And since it was a 55* day, it was going to say pretty cool either way but it won't be like that for long, warmer weather is on the way. On a track where half a fender length determines the right or wrong line, that 8 whp I got from a better downpipe was just erased, and then some.

There's more to mods than just how much power they make or what they do for your times, but I definitely got some relief from the mod bug after actually getting out there.

Except for possibly pads, rotors, and better fluid, lol :D
haha. What you said here is the reason why I always tell my friends to do a track day BEFORE modding their car.

I've been fortunate enough to have been a part of some epic platforms and I always see people blowing their paycheck to mod their cars. But they never stop to think about ... for what? lol. Is it going to make you faster? If so, by how much? Oftentimes, people are just modding just so that they can go on some weird dick measuring contest.

Also, I always hear about people being scared to track. This is something I actually don't try to change. It's GOOD to be scared bc being scared means you're being more careful. I once had a track instructor that told me, "learning how to drive on a track is like learning how to get to the edge of a cliff without falling off. You want to run and then WALK SLOWLY up to the edge." That really resonated with me and over time I've realized a lot of fast guys weren't just fast from the get go. It took a lot of time, effort, and experience to get to where they are.

Anyways. It sounds like you've got a good head on shoulders. Just remember the fundamentals of being a "good" track driver and you'll be fine.
 

licelsior

Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Threads
0
Messages
34
Reaction score
15
Location
NY
Vehicle(s)
2019 CW, 2003 S2000
Country flag
I’m nervous to take it to a track because I don’t want make some dumb mistake and ruin my car. I think that’s a fear that is over exaggerated in my mind but...(doesn’t help that I just saw a video of a CTR owner who wrecked his on a track...)

Sounds like yours went well though. It may yet give me the courage to take mine to a track this summer.
If your nervous on tracking your car, then definitely buy track insurance for that peace of mind. I started doing HPDE two years ago and I was in the same shoes as you, super nervous and scared but once I got over the first session it was exciting. Since then my S2000 has transitioned from a road warrior to a track car. Eventually I will take the CTR to the track but then I know i'll fall in love with it on the track. Since your in Doylestown PA, that's pretty close to Pocono and also NJMP. I suggest you go on MotorsportReg website and look for some Porsche Club America (PCA) events out there. I'll be at an event on 6/21-6/23 at NJMP with PCA RTR, come out and enjoy the track.
Sponsored

 


 


Top