takemorepills

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But can you imagine the look on the face of the first time an owner drives his 'auto' Civic expecting the transmission to change gears and instead it just keeps revving and revving and revving :rofl:
How's that any different than the current Civic?

 

MrX

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Anyone know if the LX infotainment is from an existing model, or what the screen size is?
Comparing the X specs, it appears the main target was the Mazda 3. Matches it in wheel base, ~width, base engine hp, and styling. Height of X ~2" less and highway MPG might beat the class leading Corolla and 3. Current city MPG needs a couple click improvement too.
Apparently 2L is not direct injection, hopefully the 0-60 will get closer to 9 mark (the Mazda3 2L 8.3 vs current 9.6).
 
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RSXer

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Honda's CVTs actually have small shift points, simulated by their software. That's the big difference and innovation that Honda did with its "EarthDreams" CVT. Since then Nissan and others have said they are also going to do that with their CVTs, clearly copying Honda without admitting it.
Didn't catch your post until now. So this CVT won't feel like one long gear that keeps revving without 'shifts'?

I assume they've been able to simulate shifts without actually losing acceleration. Would be silly to program it to feel like a traditional auto only to lose some acceleration speed by doing so.
 


benjaminh

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Didn't catch your post until now. So this CVT won't feel like one long gear that keeps revving without 'shifts'?

I assume they've been able to simulate shifts without actually losing acceleration. Would be silly to program it to feel like a traditional auto only to lose some acceleration speed by doing so.
Yes. Although actually the "shift points" are so subtle at times that you can miss them unless you are paying attention.

But essentially it avoids the strange high revving drone of the Nissan CVT, and seems somewhat more like a regular automatic.

Anyway, Honda's CVT is best in class. I was dubious about them myself, but once I drove it I found I liked it a lot—esp. in the mpg department. Acceleration is also smoother.

Nothing is as engaging as a manual, or course. But if you're going to do an auto anyway, don't think of Honda's CVT as being like those in other cars.
 

RobbJK88

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Anyone know if the LX infotainment is from an existing model, or what the screen size is?
Comparing the X specs, it appears the main target was the Mazda 3. Matches it in wheel base, ~width, base engine hp, and styling. Height of X ~2" less and highway MPG might beat the class leading Corolla and 3. Current city MPG needs a couple click improvement too.
Apparently 2L is not direct injection, hopefully the 0-60 will get closer to 9 mark (the Mazda3 2L 8.3 vs current 9.6).
The screen in the LX is basically just an iMID from the the current accord i think. It's 5" i believe.
 

RobbJK88

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Yes. Although actually the "shift points" are so subtle at times that you can miss them unless you are paying attention.

But essentially it avoids the strange high revving drone of the Nissan CVT, and seems somewhat more like a regular automatic.

Anyway, Honda's CVT is best in class. I was dubious about them myself, but once I drove it I found I liked it a lot—esp. in the mpg department. Acceleration is also smoother.

Nothing is as engaging as a manual, or course. But if you're going to do an auto anyway, don't think of Honda's CVT as being like those in other cars.
Agree. I was super skeptical about the CVT as well when i traded my 13 sedan for my 14 coupe. But honestly, its a way better transmission, smoother and it only took me a day or two to adjust to how it acts and sounds over the traditional auto. Honda's got a great CVT, definitely one of or the best on market currently.
 

MrX

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The screen in the LX is basically just an iMID from the the current accord i think. It's 5" i believe.
I would think it is a sourced audio system and has to be bigger than 5" (current Civic iMID), maybe 6" non-touch. Accord lists the iMID at 8", but maybe like LX Accord will not be Apple CarPlay®/ Google Android Auto.
 
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takemorepills

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I don't like the way the 8" infotainment integrates the HVAC into it. I prefer the lower level HU that has the HVAC controls seperate from the infotainment (like in the LX).

I prefer to look at a car in the 30 years scope (like my 29 year old Prelude which is dead nuts reliable and everything still works) as I either keep a car a long time or I enjoy buying certain used cars when they become the right price. Cars that have the HVAC integrated into a dash display like the 8" Honda example, become more difficult to repair as they get older, and are very difficult to upgrade in the future. I have found that many automotive touch screens are inoperable after 7-10 years. And in 10+ years likely Honda won't have any more spares, and there is no guarantee that the aftermarket will provide a quality solution. Already I can see the LX stereo also may not be easily exchanged as it too has that "floating" appearance. Not sure if it is double DIN with a faux floating ring or if the face truly is floating, but it too may be a PITA to upgrade. But besides upgrading, my main beef is that if the 8" fails for some reason, you won't get a display of your HVAC settings. Don't like it. Sure it will be fine for the first 10 years, but after that can you imagine when the car is 15, 20, 30 years old?

I really like early 2000's LS430, GS cars and even the 2005 Legacy GT, and I was gonna buy one of them as a commuter. But the Lexus have the touchscreen navigation thing that integrates HVAC into them and are not upgradeable, and the Legacy GT has the HVAC controls built into the radio faceplate meaning you gotta spend hundreds on OEM JDM parts to get a working double DIN solution and HVAC. Lots of nice mid 2000s Infiniti's re the same way. Wouldn't mind a M56 either, but near impossible to service it's infotainment.

Of course in my 1987 Prelude to get into the 21st century all I had to do was simply install a mechless Pioneer single DIN that for under $100 gives me all the same connectivity as a modern car minus the distracting 8" LCD display......

I feel like Honda is beginning to embrace the forced obsolescence thing. Subaru seems to be the only car maker I like that offers a car that takes a regular double DIN...Impreza and WRX.
 


RobbJK88

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I don't think it's about honda adopting the or embracing forced obsolescence as you put it... it's about honda catering to what the average car buyer expects in their cars today. We've seen it alot with honda, holding out on the new tech as long as possible. Turbo engines being another good example. Partly, because it gives time for the tech to decrease in price, also because it gives the tech time to mature and become more reliable. But in today's world people want that level of connectivity and it's difficult to do with standard radios and non-touch based screens unless you want 30,000 buttons or an Audi style control knob (which i think is way more complicated than just having touch based menus) Looking at the photos, most of the main HVAC controls are still physical, the only things i see missing are the buttons that control which vents are open/closed and the A/C on and off.

I'd be more concerned with the EX and above having a fully TFT display for the speedo and tach. What happens when that goes out? But at the same time, the 06 civics are now 10 years old and their TFT speedos are still going fine as far as i know. You have to partially trust honda to inject even it's new tech with it's historic level of reliability for the long haul. But you also have to accept that they need to cater to the modern car buyer if they want to keep their sales up where they need to be.
 

shephrd

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I'm not sure if the casual buyer would really base a car buying decision based on transmission specifics. Most people i talk to don't even know what CVT and DCT are, or what the difference is... they just want it to be an automatic. Factor in close to 10k in price difference and the transmission becomes even less of a selling point.
This is unfortunately true. The "casual car buyer" is most likely ignorant of the superior responsiveness of a DCT over a CVT and will therefore happily purchase a Civic with CVT.

However, I personally just wished that since Honda/Acura offered a DCT in the ILX and the NSX that they would have at least offered a DCT option in the Civic. There are some rumors that the next gen non-hybrid CRZ will have a DCT in 2018, but we'll see if that ever really happens.
 

PirelliPZero

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This is unfortunately true. The "casual car buyer" is most likely ignorant of the superior responsiveness of a DCT over a CVT and will therefore happily purchase a Civic with CVT.

However, I personally just wished that since Honda/Acura offered a DCT in the ILX and the NSX that they would have at least offered a DCT option in the Civic. There are some rumors that the next gen non-hybrid CRZ will have a DCT in 2018, but we'll see if that ever really happens.
A DCT is generally heavier, more expensive and less fuel efficient than a CVT. And at low speeds many have a tendency to lurch or be less smooth than a traditional automatic - unless you add a torque converter, as Honda has... which also adds weight.

So ultimately they are two different transmissions for two different applications. Acuras can be more expensive, less dependent on weight, and benefit greater from (require) the more refined transmission. Hondas benefit from the lower cost, greater fuel efficiency and lighter weight of the CVT, with the trade-off being less responsiveness.

Note that Honda also uses a 9-speed automatic for the V6 cars. That makes 3 different transmissions (as soon as they completely phase out the 6AT) that all function as automatic. So they really are tailoring each application with the appropriate transmission for its intended purpose.
 

takemorepills

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I don't think it's about honda adopting the or embracing forced obsolescence as you put it... it's about honda catering to what the average car buyer expects in their cars today. We've seen it alot with honda, holding out on the new tech as long as possible. Turbo engines being another good example. Partly, because it gives time for the tech to decrease in price, also because it gives the tech time to mature and become more reliable. But in today's world people want that level of connectivity and it's difficult to do with standard radios and non-touch based screens unless you want 30,000 buttons or an Audi style control knob (which i think is way more complicated than just having touch based menus) Looking at the photos, most of the main HVAC controls are still physical, the only things i see missing are the buttons that control which vents are open/closed and the A/C on and off.

I'd be more concerned with the EX and above having a fully TFT display for the speedo and tach. What happens when that goes out? But at the same time, the 06 civics are now 10 years old and their TFT speedos are still going fine as far as i know. You have to partially trust honda to inject even it's new tech with it's historic level of reliability for the long haul. But you also have to accept that they need to cater to the modern car buyer if they want to keep their sales up where they need to be.
I agree Honda has been slow to adopt and at some time they are just going to have to move on to stay competitive. I am just lamenting how cars, all cars, are becoming so integrated into the whole idea of quickly obsoleted technology. Looking at lots of cars today, it's easy to see that what attracts many people to them, their in car tech, is the same thing that will make them keep the car a shorter time, and when the car ends up on the used car market the obsolete in car tech will make the car even less valuable. Especially when that tech is baked in and not upgradeable. Even worse will be if the OEMs stop supporting certain things after xx years. I don't think the Civic is quite there yet, most of the tech it is adopting isn't able to cripple the car as it gets older if you keep with the lower trim levels. Hopefully the Si will be available with a simpler tech option and a more advanced tech option.

Regarding the 06 Civics (Gen 8 I guess) did they have TFT display? As far as I can tell just by casual glance they appear to be basic LCD displays with colored templates. This style has been around forever and is extremely durable as it is technically simple.

The newer displays are LCD/TFT high resolution, full color and have advanced backlighting. As I have seen in my aforementioned examples, either the touchscreen accuracy degrades into uselessness (even with the built in calibration menu) and/or the backlighting fades. Usually the older systems are CCFL, which degrades a bit too quickly. Hopefully these LED backlit displays hold up longer and the touchscreen tech is more long term stable.
 

A Tallent

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I personally have been holding off purchasing a new vehicle as the last civics were horrible and hoping the next gen would be better. Enjoy the styling but in no way want an automatic transmission. I have a 5 speed civic EX that I regularly get 40-43 mpg and have much more enjoyment driving it. Would want a coupe so maybe by then it is sorted out but the LX trim looks like the old DX trim levels. Wheelcovers? yikes. Thanks admins for the information stream and members for additions and opinions.

 

 
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