More useable power band?

[Blindeye_03]

My main interest is not power, although a welcome addition. I just want a longer power band. Im lacking words to explain why but I just find it I’m hitting the rev limit too soon too often for my driving needs.

If you dont increase power past the redline then youll be losing power past the redline. If you are not increasing power past the redline then there is zero point to having a higher redline.

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[ForeverCar]

My main interest is not power, although a welcome addition. I just want a longer power band. Im lacking words to explain why but I just find it I’m hitting the rev limit too soon too often for my driving needs.

I feel the engine wants to rev and the stock setup feels like so much is held back!

 

[Yomny]

If you dont increase power past the redline then youll be losing power past the redline. If you are not increasing power past the redline then there is zero point to having a higher redline.

Which could be the case for most if not all cars but what if there’s also the alternate scenario, the stock components make power past redline, just need some supporting mods and opening up this limit.

 

[MoTeC R]

What you're wanting requires a lot of work to accomplish. what you're after and to do it right and not compromise your car's ability. If you've got deep pockets there's huge potential on the platform. It just depends on your end goals. I'm running 700+/600+ on street tune. 295/30/20 Pilot 4S is a must have with this power as well a a twin disc and hydraulic release bearing clutch set up. I'm running an 8k redline.

 

[BrokeCTROwner]

Which could be the case for most if not all cars but what if there’s also the alternate scenario, the stock components make power past redline, just need some supporting mods and opening up this limit.

The stock turbo starts to plateau around 6700rpm. The capabilities of the powertrain are pretty well documented at this point

 

[AlphaDigital]

Ultimately I want a more useable powerband. I feel this car has great power and awesome drivability. Increasing the redline, not via software but the right way, could be very costly. A fast spooling turbo would either be twinscroll which I haven’t seen for this far or much smaller. This car has an absurd amount of lag for a small displacement car with a 7k redline or let’s just say my taste.

What are your thoughts. I’d love to raise the redline to 8k or so. How would this be done?

How does your average s2k with a 8k+ redline and a turbo kit offer both, turbo power and high redline safely.

I am on the other end of the spectrum when it comes to my opinion on turbo characteristics. This turbo seems really responsive to the point where I would rather have a slightly larger turbo so its not as touchy.

Having tracked the car, you really have to have some pedal finesse as to avoid completely washing the car out on corner exit. The onset of torque upon touching the throttle is quite startling.

I would be in favor of shifting the powerband further to the right so that the car has a bit less touchy low end and actually carries and holds power up top.

To accomplish this, you need a head and valvetrain that can support making the power up top in addition to a larger turbo, or larger exhaust side that can supply that flow without power dropping off.

I think something that will probably make you happy might be a larger turbo like the MHI or Rampage RS450 with a built head, XDI pump, and 4Pistons cams but of course, youre looking at quite a few thousand dollars to do this.

 

[Yomny]

The stock turbo starts to plateau around 6700rpm. The capabilities of the powertrain are pretty well documented at this point

That makes sense, most oem setups are made to give what they offer at stock settings, not much more. I’d hate to upgrade the turbo and get boost at 4K or higher.I don’t think that’s what the Type R is about.

 

[Yomny]

I am on the other end of the spectrum when it comes to my opinion on turbo characteristics. This turbo seems really responsive to the point where I would rather have a slightly larger turbo so its not as touchy.

Having tracked the car, you really have to have some pedal finesse as to avoid completely washing the car out on corner exit. The onset of torque upon touching the throttle is quite startling.

I would be in favor of shifting the powerband further to the right so that the car has a bit less touchy low end and actually carries and holds power up top.

To accomplish this, you need a head and valvetrain that can support making the power up top in addition to a larger turbo, or larger exhaust side that can supply that flow without power dropping off.

I think something that will probably make you happy might be a larger turbo like the MHI or Rampage RS450 with a built head, XDI pump, and 4Pistons cams but of course, youre looking at quite a few thousand dollars to do this.

I could totally understand what you’re saying. When I get some cold weather down here the car is a total different animal but 90 degree weather with 80+ humidity makes for a laggy ride.

 

[AlphaDigital]

The stock turbo starts to plateau around 6700rpm. The capabilities of the powertrain are pretty well documented at this point

I agree, the power holds pretty good up until redline, It would be nice to see the torque hold flat for a bit longer but with the turbo as small as it is its not surprising to see it peak so early and fall so hard.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

My main interest is not power, although a welcome addition. I just want a longer power band. Im lacking words to explain why but I just find it I’m hitting the rev limit too soon too often for my driving needs.

No snark intended, but perhaps you really want a different car? This car is what it is, and the way it handles power is part of its character and design. It deliberately trades off low-end and off the line performance for a more robust top end. I've never had a car that pulls as hard in 5th and 6th as this car does, even if my wife's Ford Escape can probably beat it from a dig.

Something like a V8 Mustang, or a M2, or a 718 perhaps.

 

[BrokeCTROwner]

That makes sense, most oem setups are made to give what they offer at stock settings, not much more. I’d hate to upgrade the turbo and get boost at 4K or higher.I don’t think that’s what the Type R is about.

I already gave you the perfect combo in my first comment xdi fuel pump, valve springs, and a borg Warner 7163. It’s a turbo that spoils as fast if not faster than stock and carries it up past 8000rpm. Keep it on pump gas moderate boost and you’ll be well into the 400’s reliably

 

[Yomny]

No snark intended, but perhaps you really want a different car? This car is what it is, and the way it handles power is part of its character and design. It deliberately trades off low-end and off the line performance for a more robust top end. I've never had a car that pulls as hard in 5th and 6th as this car does, even if my wife's Ford Escape can probably beat it from a dig.

Something like a V8 Mustang, or a M2, or a 718 perhaps.

Every input is appreciated. I just thought if anyone could do a good high revint turbo, that was Honda, especially the type r. I have to agree that it does pull great at higher gears.

 

[tinyman392]

Ultimately I want a more useable powerband. I feel this car has great power and awesome drivability. Increasing the redline, not via software but the right way, could be very costly. A fast spooling turbo would either be twinscroll which I haven’t seen for this far or much smaller. This car has an absurd amount of lag for a small displacement car with a 7k redline or let’s just say my taste.

What are your thoughts. I’d love to raise the redline to 8k or so. How would this be done?

How does your average s2k with a 8k+ redline and a turbo kit offer both, turbo power and high redline safely.

I know Hondata allows you to get a higher redline. If memory serves, valve float won't happen until the upper 7k range (like 7800), though I'm not sure what supporting mods would be needed to do that. Upping the redline likely won't help your turbo lag though as the lag is inherent of a turbo setup. You'll never really reach that responsiveness of an NA motor.

Although incorrect, I am referring to the lack of power under 3.5k. I'l also referring to the amount of transient lag, even when shifting high in the rpm band, this has been debated plenty around here. Mainly, lets not make it about lag but instead of the small power band and how I'd like to increase it. When I get full boost, the rev limiter is smacking me in the face already.

Lets not so much as try and compare cars or determine whether this is a laggy vehicle or not. Lets entertain my interest(for the sake of this thread)in a broader power band. What are my options to achieve either higher rev limit or earlier boost.

There is an issue with pushing torque down low with this car which I'd be weary of. That said, you could swap in the Accord turbo (which is smaller and will bolt on) and tune. You'll lose peak power though but the peak torque will happen about 1k RPM earlier. Add in a tune and you shouldn't be losing much torque either.

There is a tad bit of lag with this motor when downshifting or going up gears. It's a lot less noticeable when going up gears and much more noticeable downshifting as it has to go from a nearly complete vacuum.

 

[AlphaDigital]

Every input is appreciated. I just thought if anyone could do a good high revint turbo, that was Honda, especially the type r. I have to agree that it does pull great at higher gears.

This unfortunately isnt a traditional honda, but IMO its much better. The tradeoff Honda made was swapping out the need to make power at 8300+ RPMS by giving you a turbo instead, which supplies gobs of torque, gas mileage, and easy power.

Having both is nice but its not a cheap feat. What youre looking for is tough because in your case you really cannot have your cake and eat it.

 

[Yomny]

So now, why are there so many turbo s2000’s around making 3-400whp reliably? Doesn’t seem so unlikely. What’s the key, stroke, bore, fueling? I’m sure the cake could be had and eaten as well but maybe it takes a little more than just slapping bolt ons or a turbo upgrade.

Im not asking for a full spool at under 3k and rev limit @ 8k, that just won’t happen. Maybe I wasn’t clear in my initial post or I forgot what I wrote but I just want a more usable powerband, higher, longer and it seems 4piston has the answer with their shop cars.

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