Mods for neutral handling

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Ezil71

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Are the brackets the same between the sport hatch, si, and type R for the sway bar?

My bar should finally be arriving soon and I want to make sure before I do the install.

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This sounds counter-intuitive but if your car is already pushing (under-steering) in the corners, keeping the rear-end more firmly planted by adding a bigger/rear sway bar will actually make it worse (currently, your front end is sliding and your rear-end is staying planted, relative to the front).

If I were doing this, I would work on modifications to keep the front end tires more in contact with the pavement until I got to the point where the rear-end was coming around on me at which point I'd consider adding a rear bar to keep the back-end better planted.
 

Thatguyraw

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This sounds counter-intuitive but if your car is already pushing (under-steering) in the corners, keeping the rear-end more firmly planted by adding a bigger/rear sway bar will actually make it worse (currently, your front end is sliding and your rear-end is staying planted, relative to the front).

If I were doing this, I would work on modifications to keep the front end tires more in contact with the pavement until I got to the point where the rear-end was coming around on me at which point I'd consider adding a rear bar to keep the back-end better planted.
You got it all wrong. by upgrading rear sway bar you decreasing under-steering, rear end slide out when you left off gas correcting under-steer, by upgrading the front before the rear you actually increasing under-steer. Only Honda S2000 & RWD car upgrade the front sway bay first to decrease over-steering and snap-steer, vice versa.
 
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Ezil71

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Put the si bar in my sport hatch today.

initial impressions are that the rear is more solid, but if anything it highlights the front being softer. Understeer is still there, but so is more dive into a corner.

I’m still on the stock 18’s so the lack of grip certainty doesn’t help. I will get something better In the next few months.

but am wondering what recommendations people have for a front rear bar combination that keeps things flatter while staying on sock springs? I don’t want to go lower on this car so the right bar combo is my best guess on where to focus.
 


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Ezil71

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Suspect People recommend SI RSB never really use one or, they are happy with it and never try other size. I bought the SI bar per recommendations on the forum and turned out to be fairly lamed, only slight improvement.

Bought a Whiteline 22mm. Its substantially better. It has two settings, soft setting would be close to TypeR, but I elect the stiff setting and I am happy on that. Rear sway links also changed to Accord end links for longer life.

I also installed front links from Whiteline but I am in the tail end on installing Koyorad and 27Won FMIC, so I am excited to see if the Whitelind front links helps.

I also install SI springs, that is a nice addition all without harness and the drop is just right.

Best handling improvement came from combo Rays 57CR and Michelin S4S for me.
how much of a drop are the si springs on a hatch? Are the rates much higher?

the 22mm bar will be next.

do you have a front strut bar with your whiteline links?
 
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absolude

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thanks.

I’m adding the dc strut bar next, most likely the whiteline rear bar after.

I’m considering the whiteline springs too but my challenge is my driveway is steep and poorly designed and even at stock height on most cars you have to be really careful and at an angle not to scrape.

I've had the same experience like you after installing the Type R RSB, even though I didn't make the connection that the bar is causing the front wobble.
I installed a one piece strut bar. It helps but only minimal...

I just ordered the front end links but I'm afraid there is no going around this one without better shocks... I wonder if It'll need an alignment after installing the end links.
 
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Ezil71

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I've had the same experience like you after installing the Type R RSB, even though I didn't make the connection that the bar is causing the front wobble.
I installed a one piece strut bar. It helps but only minimal...

I just ordered the front end links but I'm afraid there is no going around this one without better shocks... I wonder if It'll need an alignment after installing the end links.
I don’t have a wobble, just more clear the front is soft when I added the si rear bar

end links don’t alter alignment
 


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Put the si bar in my sport hatch today.

initial impressions are that the rear is more solid, but if anything it highlights the front being softer. Understeer is still there, but so is more dive into a corner.

I’m still on the stock 18’s so the lack of grip certainty doesn’t help. I will get something better In the next few months.

but am wondering what recommendations people have for a front rear bar combination that keeps things flatter while staying on sock springs? I don’t want to go lower on this car so the right bar combo is my best guess on where to focus.
You're really not going to notice it until you're going fast enough that the car starts to slide mid-corner.

What a sway bar does is couple the left and right wheels together. The side effect is that as the outer wheel gets pushed upwards, the inside end of the swaybar wants to also push the inside wheel upwards, too -- which reduces total grip at that end of the car.

What some FWD auto-x drivers do is disconnect one end of their front swaybar so that both front wheels get as much ground pressure as possible. They'll retain more traction on the inside front wheel and be able to pull out of corners better.

As you get further and further into this, though, you'll need to pay attention to the tires' grip, too. A stiff suspension on hard all-season tires will want to skate around because the tires won't keep up; and sticky tires will change directions faster than a stock suspension (springs and dampers included) can react and stabilize the car.
 

absolude

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I don’t have a wobble, just more clear the front is soft when I added the si rear bar

end links don’t alter alignment
For sure the shocks on your Sport are better than on the LX.
I'll report back if the end links have any effect even though I don't have high expectations.
 

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throttle lift at the wrong time on an off ramp or quick maneuver on the highway especially in the rain
(time for me to play grandpa for a sec)

I hope you understand the risks you're taking by driving this hard on public roads. Been there, done that, paid a small price and thankfully got lucky. Public roads, with unseen hazards, questionable pavement quality, and no runoff areas are not the place to be pushing your car's limits.
 

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(time for me to play grandpa for a sec)

I hope you understand the risks you're taking by driving this hard on public roads. Been there, done that, paid a small price and thankfully got lucky. Public roads, with unseen hazards, questionable pavement quality, and no runoff areas are not the place to be pushing your car's limits.
Going to join in that none of these handling mods are advisable if you're not doing any HDPE, you're just asking for trouble. If anyone is worried about oversteer from the Type R sway bar (which really is a mild upgrade IMO), then driver mod should be first before suspension adjustments.
 

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Going to join in that none of these handling mods are advisable if you're not doing any HDPE, you're just asking for trouble. If anyone is worried about oversteer from the Type R sway bar (which really is a mild upgrade IMO), then driver mod should be first before suspension adjustments.
Bolded for emphasis. "Tighten the nut behind the wheel."

Budgeting for HPDE days should include the possibility of new brake pads, brake fluid, and tires -- all the consumables. Performance mods can come later.
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