Modded CTR Driveability?

CTRDON

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For all you guys that have modded your CTR's and brought the HP/Torque outputs to 350 (and beyond), my question is whether or not the driveability (sp?) of the car has suffered much in the process? I plan on buying a CTR (and always like more power, ha) . I have test driven a couple of stock cars which both seemed traction limited, especially in 1st and 2nd gears. Running more power through the front wheels would seem to potentially compromise the steering and handling at some level if you can't effectively put the power down. Does a product then, like the Whiteline Anti-Lift kit become more of a necessity in order better cope with more power? Thanks much for your insights!
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For all you guys that have modded your CTR's and brought the HP/Torque outputs to 350 (and beyond), my question is whether or not the driveability (sp?) of the car has suffered much in the process? I plan on buying a CTR (and always like more power, ha) . I have test driven a couple of stock cars which both seemed traction limited, especially in 1st and 2nd gears. Running more power through the front wheels would seem to potentially compromise the steering and handling at some level if you can't effectively put the power down. Does a product then, like the Whiteline Anti-Lift kit become more of a necessity in order better cope with more power? Thanks much for your insights!

I am going to be blunt:

Absolutely not. The car is a BLAST to drive. It is far more enjoyable as well. When you get on it be aware of your RPM. Never punch it below 3k RPM (I say this for even stock)

Some people upgrade their RMM (Rear Motor Mount) To allow for a better transfer of power. I am going to be doing this myself. Overall the car handles like a dream and as long as you don't drive like an ass, you will be A-OK!
 

ehCobra

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This car is not ideal if you're looking to be quick from a dig, but the majority of common mods won't take away from the driveability.
 

JohnEBlaze

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The car is fabulous however acceleration in any gear under third nets wheel spin and gets old on the street.

It's a fun car but I'm already bored with 4500 miles on the clock.
 

ehCobra

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It's a car for the twisties, to be fair. I feel for the people that live in areas without twisty roads.
 


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The car is fabulous however acceleration in any gear under third nets wheel spin and gets old on the street.

It's a fun car but I'm already bored with 4500 miles on the clock.

What did you have before this? This car is not a drag car by any means. I would also say that this car accelerates incredibly well, as stock it goes 0-60 in 4.9 seconds. I would say that acceleration beyond 40 MPH is where this car shines though.

Drop it down into second at 40 MPH and then give it some WOT.



However, as the person above me mentioned... this car is far far more enjoyable in the twist and turns of the road. As such, that must be kept in mind.
 

redwing497

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I don't have any experience with it, but if you're going to be tuned, then I would imagine Hondata Flashpro's traction control could help somewhat in this area.
 

AdamD19DFK8

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1st and 2nd aren't that bad if you don't map full power in them. Luckily I have a lot of great and challenging roads around me so it never gets old. If I lived somewhere really flat it probably wouldn't be as much fun.

Switched to the stock tune for the hell of it and it's much less responsive and flat feeling power wise. No drivability loss FBO/tuned. Plus you can use lower torque in sport or comfort for heavy rain and snow. I'm itching for more power but am currently limited by the weak titty fuel pump and no top end turbo.
 
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JohnEBlaze

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It's a fabulous car by all means but for me it needs to be pushed to 'go to jail' speeds to have fun daily. The R is great and it's fun especially considering the price, however it doesn't feel much different from boosted Honda's 20 years ago. I think I simply need a car with more displacement and power is what it boils down to.

I'll also say a 4.9 0-60 is very generous with real world being 5.4ish.
 
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Night Fury

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Hi there.



My feedback: My (Daily) CTR is a 370+ WHP, on a custom tune with Hondata. I have stock suspension (mostly power mods), so no issues with height, added weight or traction issues, anywhere I go: road trips such as FL to IL (round-trip), to work, to cruises, etc. You can go with another set of wheels, just keep in mind about: pot holes, added weight, less traction, comfort, etc., especially if you plan to lower the car. Just like any other car, when you modify, there will be always a trade..

No gearbox issues that I can report, I have the rear softest aftermarket mount installed, there is a slight NVH, but a noticeable more grip on my winter set of wheels ( all season tires), this eliminates the effect of less traction on a less of a stock offset. I had on another car both WALK kit & rear mount, you have less wheel hop and wheel spin to the expenses of less comfort.

After almost 3 years of ownership, the car has got me any hiccup, pretty reliable & everyday is a pleasure to drive. Hope this helps!
 


AdamD19DFK8

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Hi there.



My feedback: My (Daily) CTR is a 370+ WHP, on a custom tune with Hondata. I have stock suspension (mostly power mods), so no issues with height, added weight or traction issues, anywhere I go: road trips such as FL to IL (round-trip), to work, to cruises, etc. You can go with another set of wheels, just keep in mind about: pot holes, added weight, less traction, comfort, etc., especially if you plan to lower the car. Just like any other car, when you modify, there will be always a trade..

No gearbox issues that I can report, I have the rear softest aftermarket mount installed, there is a slight NVH, but a noticeable more grip on my winter set of wheels ( all season tires), this eliminates the effect of less traction on a less of a stock offset. I had on another car both WALK kit & rear mount, you have less wheel hop and wheel spin to the expenses of less comfort.

After almost 3 years of ownership, the car has got me any hiccup, pretty reliable & everyday is a pleasure to drive. Hope this helps!
Huh?
The stock wheels are about as bad as they come. 30 pounds without the rubber band, awful ride quality, and ugly offset.

Cut that weight almost in half with a smaller diameter wheel plus a tire with an actual sidewall and ride comfort, and more importantly, braking, acceleration, and cornering performance increases. The whole non stock offset detriment to tourque steer/drivability is far fetched.

Unless I've misunderstood what you were trying to say. I don't believe there's anyone invested in this car running the stock wheel setup around the track
 

Night Fury

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Huh?
The stock wheels are about as bad as they come. 30 pounds without the rubber band, awful ride quality, and ugly offset.

Cut that weight almost in half with a smaller diameter wheel plus a tire with an actual sidewall and ride comfort, and more importantly, braking, acceleration, and cornering performance increases. The whole non stock offset detriment to tourque steer/drivability is far fetched.

Unless I've misunderstood what you were trying to say. I don't believe there's anyone invested in this car running the stock wheel setup around the track
No man, you misread my feedback.

** While the stock wheel set is not everyoneā€™s favorite, on stock form, the car is comfortable, while capable. Letā€™s let that die alone.

I do use another set of wheels (RPF1 stupid light) with a different tire compound, depending which season we are on, BUT I canā€™t lie & say everything changed on the car is better now, there is always a trade when it comes about all the aftermarket parts, I cited: such as the W.A.L.K kit & rear mount, no matter how you cut it, you will have some degree of NVH with them, no matter how we cut it.

Iā€™m not preventing from trying, Iā€™m just giving my feedback of my daily. :thumbsup:
 

AdamD19DFK8

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Honda knows what they are doing. The stock wheels are large and heavy as part of their method of eliminating torque steer. You definitely ruin the car's superb handling characteristics when you mess with that formula.

People who change the wheels primarily do it so they have better pothole resistance due to also having thicker sidewall, not because they think it will cut their lap times.

The people who track the car are almost all novices who are not even remotely close to being able to get everything out of the stock car, let alone provide anything more scientific than anecdotes about the results of their with mods. Someone saying "I put smaller wheels on and the car is much better on the track" should be taken with a grain of salt.
Well for one less rotational mass makes the car have to work less to brake and speed up, and lowers the load put on the suspension. Torque steer is mainly mitigated by how the suspension is set up. It's similar to how the focus rs was before it was all wheel drive.. They in no way ruin the handling characteristics of the car.
It doesn't need to be taken with a grain of salt as people always want to shed unsprung weight as it's the most impactful weight to remove.


StigJDM, USR, J's, spoon, even the Honda touring cars use 18s
 

tinyman392

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Honda knows what they are doing. The stock wheels are large and heavy as part of their method of eliminating torque steer. You definitely ruin the car's superb handling characteristics when you mess with that formula.

People who change the wheels primarily do it so they have better pothole resistance due to also having thicker sidewall, not because they think it will cut their lap times.

The people who track the car are almost all novices who are not even remotely close to being able to get everything out of the stock car, let alone provide anything more scientific than anecdotes about the results of their with mods. Someone saying "I put smaller wheels on and the car is much better on the track" should be taken with a grain of salt.
The diameter of the stock rims and weight really don't aid in torque steer. The offset does as well as the suspension geometry. Keep in mind that for the 2021 year the LE will have a lighter set of rims (still only a 5lb drop per corner). You can lose some of the feeling in the steering going to a smaller diameter rim since the bigger tire wall will absorb stuff, this could also be adjusted in post in the suspension setup as well to correct this, though it'd be finicky to do and probably not worth the time or effort.

A smaller rim that is lighter offers all the benefits from reducing rotational mass. That is: throttle response, brake response, steering response, brake effectiveness and powertrain power loss. As with any modification, you have to weigh the wheel's changes as a whole package.

Say we're doing +45 fully forged wheels, do the gains outweigh the losses (mainly minor torque steer and softer ride)? That's honestly for the driver and car owner to access. For the most part, I'd still say yes. The added torque steer is extremely minor and not a huge issue; I have more problems with the bigger tire wall actually from a performance standpoint. The gains however are well worth it to do the swap.

Keep in mind that the Civic Type R TC and Civic Type R TCR use Forgestar F14 and OZ Racing wheels, respectively. Both are 18" wheels; while the TC uses an 18x9.5, the TCR has 18x9. I see 18x9.5+60 as an existing setup for the F14, I'd imaging that's what's being used for the TCR. I'm not sure about the offset for the TCR.
 

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Generically speaking, I agree with the absolutely not part.

However, there is one caveat which I'd imagine most people will rationalize with the "its not a straight line car" mindset. And that is, or was in my case, that when you get to 380tq, traction becomes a huge issue. 1-3rd are damn near useless where-as stock you have much more grip. The counter-argument are things like "Use Hondata's traction control" or "dampen tq in low gears" however to me, it diminishes the purpose of the upgrades to a degree. Both for straight-line and cornering. For example, you're taking a corner in second gear, the more power you have you either can't use it (because it's limited by torque management or traction control) or you will cause oversteer as the power breaks traction.

It's really unfortunate given how well the platform response to mods. It's this very reason I traded in and moved on to an RS3 even though I miss the connection between car and road the Type R provided.

If only the Type R was AWD and had a DCT automatic. One can dream...
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