Mo Powa! or Just Right?

Is more power needed or just a want??


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Dave B

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What many people don't realize is that the C5Z and CTR weigh within a few lb of each other (just over 3100 lb)but the C5Z has 100 more hp in stock form. As for the C5Z's bona fides, just follow the GrassRootsMotorsports build and why they picked it. Even in the best hands, I have not seen a CTR lap Mosport within 2 seconds of a similar prepped C5Z. Might be closer on a tight track. The Nurburging numbers don't really mean much unless you know the tires and car prep that was used.

The C6 Grand Sport Corvette is indeed more powerful and has a dry sump but is also significantly heavier (and expensive)

My point is that the CTR is still a lot of fun at the track and adding a ton of mods to increase the HP is probably going to cause as many issues as it solves. Also as it is front wheel drive, there are practical limits of putting down massive power. Until I get the heat issues dealt with, my motor will stay completely stock.
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My point is that the CTR is still a lot of fun at the track and adding a ton of mods to increase the HP is probably going to cause as many issues as it solves. Also as it is front wheel drive, there are practical limits of putting down massive power. Until I get the heat issues dealt with, my motor will stay completely stock.
Full respect to anyone who wants to experiment with adding power and finding that practical limit, but this is the way, imo. ?
 

AlphaDigital

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What many people don't realize is that the C5Z and CTR weigh within a few lb of each other (just over 3100 lb)but the C5Z has 100 more hp in stock form. As for the C5Z's bona fides, just follow the GrassRootsMotorsports build and why they picked it. Even in the best hands, I have not seen a CTR lap Mosport within 2 seconds of a similar prepped C5Z. Might be closer on a tight track. The Nurburging numbers don't really mean much unless you know the tires and car prep that was used.

The C6 Grand Sport Corvette is indeed more powerful and has a dry sump but is also significantly heavier (and expensive)

My point is that the CTR is still a lot of fun at the track and adding a ton of mods to increase the HP is probably going to cause as many issues as it solves. Also as it is front wheel drive, there are practical limits of putting down massive power. Until I get the heat issues dealt with, my motor will stay completely stock.
The heat issues with the CTR doesnt seem too difficult to solve its just costly. A well vented hood, heat wrap, acuity hoses, and a PWR/C&R radiator seems to alleviate a lot of the issues and contrary to popular belief, with a little bit of work you can fit incredibly wide tires on these cars 265+ depending on how much work you wanna put in i bet you could fit 275 comfortably.

I get it, you like the C5Z but its a two decade old car and not a good example of an apples to apples comparison to the CTR. And the car has its drawbacks as well. I dont see how you can be competitive with the suspension that it comes with from the factory, its god awful. And while were at it, theres no denying that trying to keep the car pointed straight while autocrossing or road racing is going to take a lot of finesse and footwork.

Not trying to dog on the car, but you can obviously tell that with any car, you find drawbacks and you start exposing weak points the more you modify and push the car.

What it has going for it is that the LS6 seems like a stout motor unlike the LS7 where you have intermittent head problems. Aside from that I personally find the C5 and C6 to be a very bland experience which is unfortunate because I had the C6GS on my list of potential future cars but I cant get over the god awful interior as petty as it may be. Other than that the LS3, BBK, dry sump, and wide body had me.
 
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Dave B

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Actually, no I don't LOVE the C5Z. Remember I sold it (to a guy using it only as a track car) to buy my CTR. The C5Z is an absolute beast to drive at 10/10ths although it is rewarding. It is also a pretty useless road car as well as being old.

My point is the CTR can be a very good street car and a very good track car with a few additions but I think the best additions for the track are not going to increase power. It you want to increase power just for the drag strip or street driving, that is a different matter.
 

WhiskeyTango

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What many people don't realize is that the C5Z and CTR weigh within a few lb of each other (just over 3100 lb)but the C5Z has 100 more hp in stock form. As for the C5Z's bona fides, just follow the GrassRootsMotorsports build and why they picked it. Even in the best hands, I have not seen a CTR lap Mosport within 2 seconds of a similar prepped C5Z. Might be closer on a tight track. The Nurburging numbers don't really mean much unless you know the tires and car prep that was used.

The C6 Grand Sport Corvette is indeed more powerful and has a dry sump but is also significantly heavier (and expensive)

My point is that the CTR is still a lot of fun at the track and adding a ton of mods to increase the HP is probably going to cause as many issues as it solves. Also as it is front wheel drive, there are practical limits of putting down massive power. Until I get the heat issues dealt with, my motor will stay completely stock.
What you are also failing to point out is the C5Z was also a $50k+ car in 2002. Which is right around $72k today, or about twice as much as the CTR. Comparing a top of the line Corvette to a Civic in any trim is absurd in any context.

All of that said, I'll be doing HSAX, AX and one or two HPDE's with 400+ whp this year.
 


Dave B

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My point isn't which car is better than which. Obviously a 911 GT3 is better than either. The point is that the CTR is actually pretty close to being an enjoyable track car as well as a very good street car and as has been pointed out, for a lot less money. My issue for the OP is that for track purposes, if that is indeed his aim, more power (which is the question posed by the OP) is not going to give the best results nor the most enjoyment. Street use is a totally different issue.
 

WhiskeyTango

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My point isn't which car is better than which. Obviously a 911 GT3 is better than either. The point is that the CTR is actually pretty close to being an enjoyable track car as well as a very good street car and as has been pointed out, for a lot less money. My issue for the OP is that for track purposes, if that is indeed his aim, more power (which is the question posed by the OP) is not going to give the best results nor the most enjoyment. Street use is a totally different issue.
As someone with a heavily modded and track driven car, I respectfully disagree with your OPINION on more power not giving "the best results nor the most enjoyment".

How have you formed this opinion? Have you driven a modded CTR with more power than stock around a track? Do you have statistics to support this opinion?
 

Dave B

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We will probably have to agree to disagree. My point is that indeed I have driven and competed in more powerful cars than the stock CTR although, no, I have not driven a power enhanced CTR on the track. I would suspect that for track performance, money and effort will yield greater results from upgrading wheels, tires, brakes and alignment more than power. As others have pointed out, there is nothing more intimidating to someone with a high powered vehicle than having to wave a lower powered vehicle past on the track. Although this hasn't happened to me yet with the CTR, the best compliment I ever got was when a 911 owner, after waving me past came up to me to say "what did you do to your engine?". This was in a bone stock motored Mustang 5.0 but with a lot of suspension mods.
 

AlphaDigital

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Coming previously from a FWD car that made more power than FBO FK8s on 205 tires, the difference is night and day. The suspension and ability to run tires that can handle the power is amazing LOL
 

BrokeCTROwner

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The heat issues with the CTR doesnt seem too difficult to solve its just costly. A well vented hood, heat wrap, acuity hoses, and a PWR/C&R radiator seems to alleviate a lot of the issues and contrary to popular belief, with a little bit of work you can fit incredibly wide tires on these cars 265+ depending on how much work you wanna put in i bet you could fit 275 comfortably.

I get it, you like the C5Z but its a two decade old car and not a good example of an apples to apples comparison to the CTR. And the car has its drawbacks as well. I dont see how you can be competitive with the suspension that it comes with from the factory, its god awful. And while were at it, theres no denying that trying to keep the car pointed straight while autocrossing or road racing is going to take a lot of finesse and footwork.

Not trying to dog on the car, but you can obviously tell that with any car, you find drawbacks and you start exposing weak points the more you modify and push the car.

What it has going for it is that the LS6 seems like a stout motor unlike the LS7 where you have intermittent head problems. Aside from that I personally find the C5 and C6 to be a very bland experience which is unfortunate because I had the C6GS on my list of potential future cars but I cant get over the god awful interior as petty as it may be. Other than that the LS3, BBK, dry sump, and wide body had me.
My car is on 295’s! Looking to try out 305’s next
 


BrokeCTROwner

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I think Jepps ran 305s but has since scaled it back LOL wild
I’d imagine they poked a bit. The 295’s are surprisingly flush. My car sadly still spins on rolls so I’m looking to upsize again (though I’m positive it’s because of the garbage nitto nt555 g2’s). Funny enough the next tire I’m looking to get is also a nitto
 

AlphaDigital

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I’d imagine they poked a bit. The 295’s are surprisingly flush. My car sadly still spins on rolls so I’m looking to upsize again (though I’m positive it’s because of the garbage nitto nt555 g2’s). Funny enough the next tire I’m looking to get is also a nitto
Hes got some aftermarket flares so they actually looked fairly flush.
 

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out of curiosity which platform would you move on to. Ive been trying to figure out what I move on to next and most anything else wouldnt be any cheaper than our FK8s unless I go with something like a C6 Corvette but the blandness of that car kills me.
...maybe a Supra 3.0 Premium (obviously won't be cheaper... ~5k off MSRP now) :) B58 JB4 Flex Tune and Downpipe only = massive gains not to mention incredible on the track, and no traction issues if you're into roll racing. I guess one could reduce the torque targets as was mentioned... only to a point though...
 
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Nightshifter

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I’d imagine they poked a bit. The 295’s are surprisingly flush. My car sadly still spins on rolls so I’m looking to upsize again (though I’m positive it’s because of the garbage nitto nt555 g2’s). Funny enough the next tire I’m looking to get is also a nitto
Torque is the true antagonist when it comes to FWD, and more of it will destroy that balance. The stock small turbo hitting at peak in the middle as the result of tuning is the exact opposite of what u want. Petal modulation, torque targets, fine tuning the boost for each gear, suspension, motor mounts... can get into a whole new in depth topic alone.
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