MHI-TD03 Turbo

[LilToTo17]

I always wanted a w1 but I actually think they still make a bit too much low end torque. I would probably go with a 2867 personally, not sure what that lag would feel like on the street but it seems like a good power band for reliability. Also when fuel upgrades come out for the 1.5, I think you’d have a monster(Mexico highway rolls) with the 2867. Main reason I haven’t upgraded turbo yet is because I’m torn, I don’t really want a ton of turbo lag but I don’t want a ton of low end torque to blow my engine. Can’t wait to see how the rv6 and w2 drop in do

RV6 has been tested by DRob already and here’s a 2867 on a stock motor

Sponsored

 

[2tone]

RV6 has been tested by DRob already and here’s a 2867 on a stock motor

Yea I follow drob I’ve seen the 2867s he’s tuned. Thanks tho I missed the rv6 post haven’t been on insta much this weekend! Yea a drop in performing similar to a 2860 sounds like a great move

 

[Anger]

@Anger an FK7 with a Hybrid conversion to TD03 CHRA is pushing a healthy 260+ whp already in Greece and an FC1 is about to follow. I pretty much think this is the safe ceiling for EUDM's with a healthy 35-37kgm of torque spread nicely from 3500-5500 rpm. I'm not sure you can take advantage of a better blower without touching your internals and/or transmission. In this context I do think that a 2860/TD04 is an overkill for us.

He is running the stock clutch? If by any chance you intent to do a group buy, let me know. I do suggest a group buy of Eman flywheels and source the FK8 clutch kit ourselves locally, if it makes sense to have a group buy. Customs charges will go through the roof.

Original MHI TD03 it is then! I do not want to exceed 30-32kgm of torque under any circumstances, with what ever hp that translates to. Noone has ANY idea of what the AWD system can handle and I do not intend on being the first person in the world to find out! Stock torque is stated at 22kgm by Honda. Another 10kgm shouldnt cause trouble. I ll ask around about previous gen CRVs that have been turbocharged to find out what kind of issues they faced with the older AWD systems. I think 250hp and 30kgm should be fine for taking on 2.0T group VAGs, BMWs and Mercedes. I can reach that with the stock turbo I suppose but I prefer to be on the safe side with a bigger blower pushing less pressure.

 

[Hondanickx]

Type one / spoon just posted some testing of their big turbo / mhi turbo .they had 274whp and 42kgm torque VS stock 166whp and 23kgm.
That's a lot of torque on a stock? Engine!

SPOON has been working on the 10th generation CIVIC in partnership with HONDATA, focusing on 1.5 turbocharged L15 engine.

Last year in testing at the Time Attack, our FK7 demonstration car with updated ECU settings, was able to better the standard FK8 TYPE R lap time. However, it felt like it was not enough power and torque to outpace the higher horsepower K20C engine.

Analysis of the HONDATA ecu logs, show that the increased boost pressure and power output results in higher exhaust temperature and pressure, this eventually makes the turbocharger reach its maximum capacity.

As the fuel system of the L15C engine has sufficient capacity, we decided that it is possible to further improve the output by developing an all-new large capacity turbocharger capable of producing more boost pressure.

Turbocharger technology has rapidly evolved to meet strict fuel consumption standards, exhaust gas regulations and there are many manufacturers.

With this in mind we decided to pick the newest and the most beneficial turbocharger from MHI (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries), known for its advanced technologies.

After several months of development, we have finalized the BIG TURBO CHARGER KIT. The result is increased high rpm range output and improved medium to low torque.

The housing has the same shape with the original turbocharger; therefore, it does not require any additional parts to install, just bolt it on and it’s ready.

The new SPOON BIG TURBO CHARGER KIT features: larger compressor and turbine wheels, changes to the number of blades on the turbine wheel and optimized design to improve efficiency.


SPOON TURBO 42.17Kgm (305 ft lb)
SPOON TURBO 274.73ps (221.65hp)
SPOON FK7 demonstration car

When Used together with Hondata FlashPro, (not included) this can increase torque by 19Kgm (137 ft lb) and power by 108ps (106 hp) over stock.

備考＆特記事項
注）クラッチは高圧着タイプに交換が必要です。
Caution! Higher capacity clutch required.
ガスケット類付属。

 

[@thatblu_si]

Cool. 280 whp sounds way too much for my transmission (and the rods probably as I do have the Si pistons and turbo but the rods are those of the non-Si). Say I want to do 280hp (flywheel, not whp). Which is better for reliability? Running the W1 at 24 psi or the TD03 at 27 psi?(again, numbers are indicative). Both turbos can make the 280hp at the flywheel.

Probably late to this and i havent finish reading the entire thread, but i when it come to turbos psi is just the amount of air being crammed into a space, if you getting the same hp at 24 psi with the W1 and 27 psi with the TD03 then that means that they are flowing the same amount of air at 24 and 27 psi. If you want reliability then you wana go with a bigger turbo that can flow more air at less psi, because if your pushing 27 psi out of a smaller turbo you are only stressing out the smaller turbo. Piping alone changes psi, so take into consideration the flow factor when thinking about reliability. A big turbo can push 35 psi through little 2 inch pipes with ease, but now you are restricting this turbo in turn making is work harder. A big turbo will be able to flow the same amount of air thru a bigger diameter pipe at, lets say, 15 psi. In turn giving you the same flow and same hp without stressing the turbo. At the end of the day a bigger turbo with the correct piping sizes will always be more reliable than a smaller turbo that is riding close to its breaking point (high psi) because the bigger turbo doesnt have to work as hard to achieve the same output.

 

[varge]

@86salmon my popcorn is almost finished waiting for your plots

 

[86salmon]

It's too hot. 96°f/36c ambient on the 40 minute drive to the dyno with IAT 114-120°f. Over 100°f in the shop. Needless to say, the numbers on the Mustang weren't pretty. Probably soaked by the time I was even hooked up to the dyno

200whp/225tq at 75-80°f before tune and 222whp/256tq at 100-105°f 60% humidity on the latest pull. So with a 20-25°f air temp swing, it's hard to assess the change. I'm getting another pull scheduled during a morning. There should be more consistent results with closer ambient air temps

I also didn't think to datalog during the pulls. I will when I reschedule


The torque still comes on early. So for folks wanting to keep low end grunt, it's there.

 

[LilToTo17]

It's too hot. 96°f/36c ambient on the 40 minute drive to the dyno with IAT 114-120°f. Over 100°f in the shop. Needless to say, the numbers on the Mustang weren't pretty. Probably soaked by the time I was even hooked up to the dyno

200whp/225tq at 75-80°f before tune and 222whp/256tq at 100-105°f 60% humidity on the latest pull. So with a 20-25°f air temp swing, it's hard to assess the change. I'm getting another pull scheduled during a morning. There should be more consistent results with closer ambient air temps

I also didn't think to datalog during the pulls. I will when I reschedule
View attachment 235498

The torque still comes on early. So for folks wanting to keep low end grunt, it's there.

DRob also tunes a lot of cars in 100 degree ambient dyno rooms

 

[IronFusion]

before/after plot of intercooler sprayer system. As you can see, for under $60 IAT2 goes down up to 30 degrees. +30whp and +42wtq when otherwise heatsoaked

 

[86salmon]

DRob also tunes a lot of cars in 100 degree ambient dyno rooms

He also has tuned on Mustangs. He also tuned my car. What's your point? I didn't do a datalog so it's hard to say what was going on other than the numbers aren't pretty.

Like I said, I'm going to run logs next time I get on a dyno. I'm also going to try and get an am appointment to be more consistent with my previous data

 

[varge]

It's too hot. 96°f/36c ambient on the 40 minute drive to the dyno with IAT 114-120°f. Over 100°f in the shop. Needless to say, the numbers on the Mustang weren't pretty. Probably soaked by the time I was even hooked up to the dyno

200whp/225tq at 75-80°f before tune and 222whp/256tq at 100-105°f 60% humidity on the latest pull. So with a 20-25°f air temp swing, it's hard to assess the change. I'm getting another pull scheduled during a morning. There should be more consistent results with closer ambient air temps



I also didn't think to datalog during the pulls. I will when I reschedule


The torque still comes on early. So for folks wanting to keep low end grunt, it's there.

Thanks for the information mate! I'm not sure about the Si, but my non-Si will loose ~10g/s in air flow when ambient rises from 70ish to 95ish and will also retard timing by 1-2 degrees respectively. I'm not that much of an expert but that would be a healthy 10-15whp lost in the heat.
My guess would be that a TD03 would be able to provide 30-40whp on top of what the stock turbo can deliver (30ish for Si / 40ish for a non-Si with the even smaller turbo) so your numbers actually make sense. What makes me curious is that it run out of steam pretty quickly. I mean I've seen an FK7 with a hybrid TD025 with TD03 CHRA that pushed 260whp flat from 5600-6400rpm on a Dynapack on a cold winter's night

 

[86salmon]

Thanks for the information mate! I'm not sure about the Si, but my non-Si will loose ~10g/s in air flow when ambient rises from 70ish to 95ish and will also retard timing by 1-2 degrees respectively. I'm not that much of an expert but that would be a healthy 10-15whp lost in the heat.
My guess would be that a TD03 would be able to provide 30-40whp on top of what the stock turbo can deliver (30ish for Si / 40ish for a non-Si with the even smaller turbo) so your numbers actually make sense. What makes me curious is that it run out of steam pretty quickly. I mean I've seen an FK7 with a hybrid TD025 with TD03 CHRA that pushed 260whp flat from 5600-6400rpm on a Dynapack on a cold winter's night

Mustang numbers are typically lower than Dynapack and Dynojet. There's another thread around where a user was getting numbers for Phearable maps on a Mustang and they had a 30hp adjustment for Dynapack. So there's that

I wish I'd gotten logs so I could see how much timing was pulled and what the temps got to. With lower temps I've seen 4-9° advance at 5-6000rpm


Edit: Talking to Derek, he agrees there's timing being pulled at the IAT's I was seeing. Again, without a log it's hard to say how much. He estimates 2°, so that can be a good bit of top end

 

[Hondanickx]

Thanks for the information mate! I'm not sure about the Si, but my non-Si will loose ~10g/s in air flow when ambient rises from 70ish to 95ish and will also retard timing by 1-2 degrees respectively. I'm not that much of an expert but that would be a healthy 10-15whp lost in the heat.
My guess would be that a TD03 would be able to provide 30-40whp on top of what the stock turbo can deliver (30ish for Si / 40ish for a non-Si with the even smaller turbo) so your numbers actually make sense. What makes me curious is that it run out of steam pretty quickly. I mean I've seen an FK7 with a hybrid TD025 with TD03 CHRA that pushed 260whp flat from 5600-6400rpm on a Dynapack on a cold winter's night

Do you have a dyno chart of that rebuild TD025?And did he used the Mamba turbo rebuild kit?

 

[arnoldo]

Do you have a dyno chart of that rebuild TD025?And did he used the Mamba turbo rebuild kit?

There is a result here: MHI 10th Gen Honda Civic Si Bolt On Turbo Upgrade.

I think there is still room to improve though. Looking at the dyno plot, tuner seems to lower torque from 5500 to 6000 RPM. I think the tuner should adjust the low end torque and maximize torque post 3500 RPM.

 

[Myx]

It's too hot. 96°f/36c ambient on the 40 minute drive to the dyno with IAT 114-120°f. Over 100°f in the shop. Needless to say, the numbers on the Mustang weren't pretty. Probably soaked by the time I was even hooked up to the dyno

200whp/225tq at 75-80°f before tune and 222whp/256tq at 100-105°f 60% humidity on the latest pull. So with a 20-25°f air temp swing, it's hard to assess the change. I'm getting another pull scheduled during a morning. There should be more consistent results with closer ambient air temps

I also didn't think to datalog during the pulls. I will when I reschedule


The torque still comes on early. So for folks wanting to keep low end grunt, it's there.

This is very good information. Thanks for posting. I don't care what your numbers are as compared to others. What I'm noticing is that you gained 22whp and 31tq. That's a nice amount at the same boost, same temps, same day. I like it.

What do you think the 'choppiness' of power is from 5400rpm is from?