Maximum Power Levels on Stock Clutch - 1.5L T Si

charleswrivers

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Around 15k here and 1.5 years on basemaps or TSP Stage 1. Give an aggressive launch off the time now and then and WOT it regularly, though not in 5th or 6th and only 4th if I'm already at highway speeds... nor will I let the car make much boost in 5th or 6th when I'm doing light acceleration when already at highway speeds. A little NLS here and there (today even) but it's certainly not a lot.

It you want to build full boost with a basemap in 6th while driving 55 mph, you may have problems. Between things like quick spool and partial throttle boost, throttle mapping... there are a lot of things that will allow torque to rise quickly where the turbo can make a substantial spike down low. It's not just about the peak boost. You can make peak boost much quicker and with light throttle inputs. With the stock tune, you practically have to pin the throttle to make peak boost. I noticed this when I went back to the factory tune after over a year for warranty work. Partial throttle made minimal power compared to any reflash.

So long as you do your hardest acceleration where the power is... which is still in the upper 1/2 of the RPM range, regardless of the ability to make good torque but still less power down at low RPMs, you may well be fine. I by no means drive gentle... I just drive hard where it makes sense to, IMO. I'm sure if I tried to demand ~300 ft/lbs of torque at 55 MPH in 6th to pass... the clutch would eventually slip, glaze, then not hold even being driven moderately. If you want to do that, then you should probably budget for a new clutch immediately. If not? See how it goes. You might be ok.
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PowerPerLiter

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20k miles on mine thus far. if anything its gotten better. tuned since 1k. and on sticky summer only tires with hasport rear mount. Drive it like you care and you should be good assuming your already an excellent manual operator.
 

FlexRex

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I agree w Neoguri’s logic.

If you want to be able to abuse your clutch and have it survive, then by all means by a new clutch.

If you know how to ride the power curve and “drive” your car, you most likely wont need a new clutch.

12k miles on stock clutch (rated for 300chp) tuned to >350whp on e50. Not an ounce of slip. I havent and wont most likely ever go wot in 5th or 6th, unless chased by really fast zombies in an apocalypse.

It has been my experience that most people tend to overbuy clutch so that it can take the abuse.
 
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VooDuuChild

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2018 Si Coupe, KTuned TSP Stage 1. Clutch started slipping today. car has 12 or 13,000 miles on it, probably half of that tuned.
 

A2typeR

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I don’t know... if you’re like taking off and launching from 0 or WOT constantly then yeah your clutch will probably wear out quicker. I’m on map 3 on TSP tune but I don’t push the car. Rarely ever go past 5k rpm and when I feel any oddness, I immediately let off the gas. So far, I don’t have any clutch slip and I have a CAI, Frontpipe and exhaust system installed (soon to be Downpipe).
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How many miles have you driven TSP stage 1 Map 3?

That’s my current daily setup and the clutch feels weird already to me after 5k miles. It seems like it always labors to engage and especially on hills or slants.

My ND Miata clutch is much more easy to feel and engage it’s very mechanical. Whilst this clutch has virtually no feel to me until the gear is completely engaged. I know I’m not doing this any justice in terms of feeling but it’s super hard to explain.

Maybe it will feel better after I fully break it in. Almost 5k miles and I have been tuned since 600.

Thanks,
A2
 


ne0guri

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How many miles have you driven TSP stage 1 Map 3?

That’s my current daily setup and the clutch feels weird already to me after 5k miles. It seems like it always labors to engage and especially on hills or slants.

My ND Miata clutch is much more easy to feel and engage it’s very mechanical. Whilst this clutch has virtually no feel to me until the gear is completely engaged. I know I’m not doing this any justice in terms of feeling but it’s super hard to explain.

Maybe it will feel better after I fully break it in. Almost 5k miles and I have been tuned since 600.

Thanks,
A2
My mileage is VERY limited. I have 2017 model and still only have about 16,700 miles lol

I’ve been on this tune for maybe 2-3k miles? I’ve slipped the clutch maybe once or twice but immediately let off when I felt something off about the car.

I will say this though, most of my performance modifications seem to really open up past 4K RPM and since I’m driving locally 99% of the time, I don’t really go past 4K to experience the true power potential my car has. Just FYI, I have PRL CAI, 27Won turbo back system and ktuner + tsp
 

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This clutch to me feels like sticking my naked foot in a wet bowl of noodles...

Is that how everyone else’s feels or doesn’t feel? I guess would be more appropriate. For some reason it always feels very weak on engagements almost like it’s struggling against the 1.5 engine or something...

I wouldn’t be surprised if Honda just threw the same clutch from the normal civics into the Si just to save money.
 

PowerPerLiter

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This clutch to me feels like sticking my naked foot in a wet bowl of noodles...

Is that how everyone else’s feels or doesn’t feel? I guess would be more appropriate. For some reason it always feels very weak on engagements almost like it’s struggling against the 1.5 engine or something...

I wouldn’t be surprised if Honda just threw the same clutch from the normal civics into the Si just to save money.
The clutch feel is something that is an "acquired taste", it gets better with use. BUT i think its just us getting used to it. I have always driven the car attempting to lengthen the life of the clutch so it has always been more or less in the back of my head every time I drive it. It is frustratingly inconsistent sometimes. I have literally tuned my car around the way the clutch is. Since I have done this it is drastically more enjoyable to drive.
 

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I greatly improved the clutch engagement feel by installing a firmer rear motor mount.
 

A2typeR

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@PowerPerLiter
Lol that’s funny about modding around the clutch. I’m thinking about possibly upgrading the shifter setup and possibly the clutch. However my car is a lease. But I still have 2.75 years on it so I would get some solid value.

Plus the next owner would be lucky. I will wait and see how long until it starts to slip.

I’ve never had a clutch slip is it just like it won’t engage or takes longer or something

Longest I went was 64k on a 2008 Mini Cooper S and it’s clutch was still going strong. They don’t make them like the used too lol
 


FlexRex

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How many miles have you driven TSP stage 1 Map 3?

That’s my current daily setup and the clutch feels weird already to me after 5k miles. It seems like it always labors to engage and especially on hills or slants.

My ND Miata clutch is much more easy to feel and engage it’s very mechanical. Whilst this clutch has virtually no feel to me until the gear is completely engaged. I know I’m not doing this any justice in terms of feeling but it’s super hard to explain.

Maybe it will feel better after I fully break it in. Almost 5k miles and I have been tuned since 600.

Thanks,
A2
That pretty quick clutch wear. What is your driving style?

Are we talking wot or close to it situations at 5000rpm? What gear is this in?

Or are you saying you are trying to feel the engagement at 5000rpm?
 

bbeem

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Wanted to chime in on the clutch. I wouldn't plan on running the stock clutch for more then a year with a stage 1 tune. I never slipped mine on stage 1 running 3k miles (2k-5kodm) went stage 2 at 5k and it slipped so bad I ordered spec stage 2+ kit same day. Had the high rpm lockout because puny OEM master cylinder is too small to drive the spec. Ordered the wilwood master spec is currently offering in the kit now and what a dream. The petal is stiffer then stock but very springy instead of hard and mushy. Love the spec clutch but don't even install it without bigger wilwood master and ss lines. If you have the clutch might as well go stage 2 then... If you got an si, it's begging for ktuner. For about 15% the cars cost you can have 90hp and double the fun. Hell for 2% the cars cost you could go tsp1 for 55hp. Just go down the rabbit hole and smile.
 

FlexRex

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15% of the cars cost? What the hell are you buying, if i may ask?
 

A2typeR

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That pretty quick clutch wear. What is your driving style?

Are we talking wot or close to it situations at 5000rpm? What gear is this in?

Or are you saying you are trying to feel the engagement at 5000rpm?
I haven’t noticed the slipping yet. I drive aggressive but within confines of the car, I usually only go WOT in 2nd or 3rd gear hard acceleration in Traffic freeway etc, and then downshift to 4th on freeway to pass most of the time sometimes 5th if it’s a slower pass. I drive 80-85 on freeway

I haven’t tried a clutch dump at 5k rpm lol, I did try one around 3-3.5k before but only one time, I usually don’t do anything harsh on the shifts pretty standard there so far.

I’m talking about the actual feel of the engagement of clutch and each gear etc. it’s very hard to put into words.i will find a quote from the Miata forum that explains the “feel” much better.

Wait 1
 

A2typeR

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This is from Hunterdude on Miata.net

“Many thanks for the warm welcome....I can share a detail in addition to the light weight that makes the Miata different to drive than a new Porsche, over the years Porsche has gotten Very refined....and rightly so I suppose for the very high price point, my 2018 Cayman is actually my 4th Porsche, But my first brand new Porsche...after driving it for a couple weeks I was speaking to my buddy and he said "what do you think of her"? I said I think it's my favorite out of 47 cars....but...there is something missing compared to my 1979 930 turbo....the turbo felt like a barely street legal race car...a lot more raw if you will...the Cayman feels like a banjo tight Lexus...shaped like a Porsche.
He said really? Give me an example?? I said ok, put your hand on Cayman shifter...he did...I have Cayman WOT to redline....then said could you feel anything at all about what just happened transmitted thru shifter...he said no...can not even tell it's running! Exactly!!!
Now on my ND2 test drive I could feel Everything thru shifter...like I had my fingers on the pulse of the engine, there are spots in the RPM range that the engine feels happy and smoothish... other RPM more rough or less balanced...Now I can't blame Porsche for being refined but the rawness of a race car that somehow passed safety inspection for roadworthy turns out to be the sports car experience I was longing for.”

He is from Michigan so I don’t feel bad stealing his description lol.
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