Max horsepower

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Curious if you have tested both in similar conditions to see if one cools better than the other? I know the middle grill one is an easier install but does the side grill one cool better type results?
the center one works well for stock like power or for lower ambient temp conditions. the side mount does work much better and is needed for extra power, high ambient temps like we have here in GA, and for hard track sessions.

 

CTR941

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we are working on a completion kit for the Radium Port Injection setup. But really even with proper tuning you are pushing your luck with the bottom end when going over 400whp as it is. We only really recommend going that far if building the block.
LOL some truth here speaking from experience. :(
 

17CivicTypeR_Brian

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If HP/acceleration is the ultimate goal and you don't mind sacrificing some handling, just get the Orbis electric rear wheel conversion. If it's really 70hp per wheel, it seems like the best and most reliable solution short of a built longblock.
Assuming it works seamlessly in tandem, 500-550hp total output should be realistic.

Not the route I'd go but an idea!
 

RStoR

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Came across this Vandal One article today. The car uses the CTR motor and they offer a built version. Here is what they said regarding output;

"Opt for what Sutton describes as the "R Engine Package," and the Civic Type R engine is rebuilt from soup to nuts with forged internals, a BorgWarner EFR 7163 turbo, port and direct injectors, and other enhancements, delivering both more boost and the ability to rev to 9,100 rpm. Maximum output? Figure 550 to 560 horsepower."
 

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Came across this Vandal One article today. The car uses the CTR motor and they offer a built version. Here is what they said regarding output;

"Opt for what Sutton describes as the "R Engine Package," and the Civic Type R engine is rebuilt from soup to nuts with forged internals, a BorgWarner EFR 7163 turbo, port and direct injectors, and other enhancements, delivering both more boost and the ability to rev to 9,100 rpm. Maximum output? Figure 550 to 560 horsepower."
Sounds like our USR CTR engine lol
 


CincyTypeR

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Sounds like our USR CTR engine lol
Give us the fuel!!!

Then also let me know where I can drop my car off to have the engine built to handle the power. Would 4pistons take my car and do all the work or do I have to get the engine removed? Regardless will be pricey I am sure looking at the cost of their shortblock and cylinder head
 

charleswrivers

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The valvetrain isn’t designed for high rpm at all, and experiences valve float at 7300rpm.
Just to that point... for the RSXs with the K20A2s... we were reflashing from (my numbers may be a little off... it's been a few years) a 8100 RPM rev limit to a 8600 RPM rev limit to match the Type Rs of the day, because the valve train was the same. I'm not sure what goes into floating valves (I've also got a little GY6 that can float valves at 8-9k RPMs if pushed) beyond the mass of the valves and the springs that are matched to them. I'm not sure the differences between the A2s springs and the C1 springs... but assuming the mass of the valves are the same (and I'm not saying they are... I don't remember the A2s having sodium filled valves) ...there may be a OEM Honda valve spring in the wild suitable to upgrade the valve train to keep the valves from floating.

Making 500 whp at 9000 RPM only requires about 300 ft-lbs of torque. There's a lot more that goes into whether it work well as I suppose with the design... combustion... the force of combustion acting on the piston. There was a really great Engineering Explained that came out a while back that went over the internal processes in a combustion chamber and how they influenced RPM, regardless of whether you designed an engine with a shorter or longer stroke. Still... the idea of a present-day 9000 RPM makes me happy.

As a mostly lurking Si guy... I still liked my older K-series cars and have been looking on with interest to see the fuel-limited power ceiling get raised on the CTRs as older custom port-injection K-series cars have made some wild numbers over the years.
 

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Just to that point... for the RSXs with the K20A2s... we were reflashing from (my numbers may be a little off... it's been a few years) a 8100 RPM rev limit to a 8600 RPM rev limit to match the Type Rs of the day, because the valve train was the same. I'm not sure what goes into floating valves (I've also got a little GY6 that can float valves at 8-9k RPMs if pushed) beyond the mass of the valves and the springs that are matched to them. I'm not sure the differences between the A2s springs and the C1 springs... but assuming the mass of the valves are the same (and I'm not saying they are... I don't remember the A2s having sodium filled valves) ...there may be a OEM Honda valve spring in the wild suitable to upgrade the valve train to keep the valves from floating.

Making 500 whp at 9000 RPM only requires about 300 ft-lbs of torque. There's a lot more that goes into whether it work well as I suppose with the design... combustion... the force of combustion acting on the piston. There was a really great Engineering Explained that came out a while back that went over the internal processes in a combustion chamber and how they influenced RPM, regardless of whether you designed an engine with a shorter or longer stroke. Still... the idea of a present-day 9000 RPM makes me happy.

As a mostly lurking Si guy... I still liked my older K-series cars and have been looking on with interest to see the fuel-limited power ceiling get raised on the CTRs as older custom port-injection K-series cars have made some wild numbers over the years.
Sadly, even though they’re both designated as K blocks, the C1 and A engines share nothing other than the letter K.

Not only are the valves and springs radically different, so is the head.

High rpm capacity no longer exists in modern four cylinder Hondas.

http://blog.jepistons.com/comparing-hondas-new-k20c-head-to-the-last-ten-k20a-series-
 

itrgsr94

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Sadly, even though they’re both designated as K blocks, the C1 and A engines share nothing other than the letter K.

Not only are the valves and springs radically different, so is the head.

High rpm capacity no longer exists in modern four cylinder Hondas.

http://blog.jepistons.com/comparing-hondas-new-k20c-head-to-the-last-ten-k20a-series-
Why is this sad?
Honda has given us what we all wanted low-end torque with a touch of VTEC to rev to redline.
This engine pulls hard anywhere in the rev range, I love the A2 but I'd trade 1k rpm's for this grunt anyday.
I personally feel this engine is still uncharted and assumptions are being made, in 5 years we will all know.
I remember when B-series ran the scene and people were meh on the K-series clearly time proved them wrong.
I'm looking forward to the progess, it's the one thing most of us resist, yet is entirely neccessary.

On the flip side in time and with the funds a high revving C1 is 100% possible, albeit with a bigger turbo.
Enjoy the ride ladies and gentleman.
 

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Sadly, even though they’re both designated as K blocks, the C1 and A engines share nothing other than the letter K.

Not only are the valves and springs radically different, so is the head.

High rpm capacity no longer exists in modern four cylinder Hondas.

http://blog.jepistons.com/comparing-hondas-new-k20c-head-to-the-last-ten-k20a-series-
Thanks was a great read, thanks.

For the NA K20s, I always thought they were just a rehash of the old K20A3s from the base RSXs and 7th gen Sis because their power/torque/redlines are all very similar. After reading this... I'm questioning this somewhat, though I would think the head design would be similar to the older design. They're still port injection. I guess Honda had to go to a 'C' designation... but the C1 and C2 must be wildly different.
 


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Why is this sad?
Honda has given us what we all wanted low-end torque with a touch of VTEC to rev to redline.
This engine pulls hard anywhere in the rev range, I love the A2 but I'd trade 1k rpm's for this grunt anyday.
I personally feel this engine is still uncharted and assumptions are being made, in 5 years we will all know.
I remember when B-series ran the scene and people were meh on the K-series clearly time proved them wrong.
I'm looking forward to the progess, it's the one thing most of us resist, yet is entirely neccessary.

On the flip side in time and with the funds a high revving C1 is 100% possible, albeit with a bigger turbo.
Enjoy the ride ladies and gentleman.
Because although it’s finally a Honda with low end punch, it’s tunability is lacking compared to other inline turbo four cylinders from VW, Ford, and even a discontinued port injection Mitsubishi.

It doesn’t really matter because the law of diminishing returns with FWD comes into play very quickly. The fk8 is super balanced and near perfect stock for a 300hp car.

To rev the C1 to make high HP is going to be cost prohibitive for most due to ridiculously expensive fueling limitations. It will also need head work to make use of a larger turbo, most of which will make power well beyond 7300rpm.
 

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I’m going to chime in here on one thing. At some given point regardless if your below 7k rpm w enough boost you’ll create valve float simply due to high level of boost pressure extending the valve open time. With that being said, it’s been proven by 4Piston racing that valve float starts as early as 7300rpm. As far as this engine goes to me it’s not as bad as people make it out to be. Why cause we can’t make 500whp on a stock block. Did anyone see how tiny the stock rods are? I’m surprised they handle 400whp at all. Regardless w rods, valve springs it would easily topple 550whp. Provided fueling. And truthfully trying owning a 13 Camaro zl1. It was going to cost me 5k in parts for fuel system just to get beyond 700 hp that was after I spent over 6500 just to get to that point in parts alone. Let’s be real saying 375whp for 2.0 stock engine is very impressive. Imagine it was 4.0 v8 it would have 750whp.
Besides golf R, Mercedes CLA 43amg and focus Rs All of which cost more in parts and tuning or is much harder to work on. I know first hand having the golf and the focus Rs. Mercedes is obviously more money. How much power do you need?
Here’s the bigger question. How much drivability do you want to sacrifice?
 

seselectronics

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I’m going to chime in here on one thing. At some given point regardless if your below 7k rpm w enough boost you’ll create valve float simply due to high level of boost pressure extending the valve open time. With that being said, it’s been proven by 4Piston racing that valve float starts as early as 7300rpm. As far as this engine goes to me it’s not as bad as people make it out to be. Why cause we can’t make 500whp on a stock block. Did anyone see how tiny the stock rods are? I’m surprised they handle 400whp at all. Regardless w rods, valve springs it would easily topple 550whp. Provided fueling. And truthfully trying owning a 13 Camaro zl1. It was going to cost me 5k in parts for fuel system just to get beyond 700 hp that was after I spent over 6500 just to get to that point in parts alone. Let’s be real saying 375whp for 2.0 stock engine is very impressive. Imagine it was 4.0 v8 it would have 750whp.
Besides golf R, Mercedes CLA 43amg and focus Rs All of which cost more in parts and tuning or is much harder to work on. I know first hand having the golf and the focus Rs. Mercedes is obviously more money. How much power do you need?
Here’s the bigger question. How much drivability do you want to sacrifice?

I'm very happy with how my engine response, actually 360 whp 357 tq, custom tuning. What I've see here, mostly people just care about go strength line, drag races or street racing , when you are side by side rolling to 40 mph and honking for ''green'', for these people they don't really know how awesome is this car, how impressive is the handling , how this car take corners, this is a track car.. and is the nest car Fwd at the moment , a production car how has a Nuburgring lap record. The thing is , let say there is a fuel solution, something not extremely expensive and let say the bottom of the engine holds 500 whp, and you feel like '' wow'! this car is amazing and next few minutes a civic 98 stand next to you and literally it kills you , because he has 700whp and he spend $7000 in parts and $5000 in the car , let say he has $15000 civic who kill you against your $45000 Type R? I would laughs a lot , but just my thoughts
We already have a such amazing car.. I know all people loves drags racing but this car was designed for track, is a track weapon.
 

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I'm very happy with how my engine response, actually 360 whp 357 tq, custom tuning. What I've see here, mostly people just care about go strength line, drag races or street racing , when you are side by side rolling to 40 mph and honking for ''green'', for these people they don't really know how awesome is this car, how impressive is the handling , how this car take corners, this is a track car.. and is the nest car Fwd at the moment , a production car how has a Nuburgring lap record. The thing is , let say there is a fuel solution, something not extremely expensive and let say the bottom of the engine holds 500 whp, and you feel like '' wow'! this car is amazing and next few minutes a civic 98 stand next to you and literally it kills you , because he has 700whp and he spend $7000 in parts and $5000 in the car , let say he has $15000 civic who kill you against your $45000 Type R? I would laughs a lot , but just my thoughts
We already have a such amazing car.. I know all people loves drags racing but this car was designed for track, is a track weapon.
I agree track weapon. Not to mention true track car costs a ton of money. Easily spend 5-7k in suspension alone. I had 2013 zl1 and that was to be track weapon and my type r out the box has better handling. Better braking especially!!
Honestly the biggest disappointing issue is the overheating of the oil which can lead to engine failure. The catch 22 is and w oil cooler you can lose some pressure. So what do you read off with? I say we need a larger capacity oil pain might be s better solution. Not to mention if you build a high rpm engine from 4p racing it can rev up to 9k. Oil starvation is possible issue.
 
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seselectronics

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I agree track weapon. Not to mention true track car costs a ton of money. Easily spend 5-7k in suspension alone. I had 2013 zl1 and that was to be track weapon and my type r out the box has better handling. Better braking especially!!
Honestly the biggest disappointing issue is the overheating of the oil which can lead to engine failure. The catch 22 is and w oil cooler you can lose some pressure. So what do you read off with? I say we need a larger capacity oil pain might be s better solution. Not to mention if you build a high rpm engine from 4p racing it can rev up to 9k. Oil starvation is possible issue.
Unfortunately I can’t gave any option on it , I haven’t had this issue, but we can ask to @[email protected] he has a lot experience tracking the car and he has oil cooler in his R , he has a lot of work done.

 

 
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