Manual trans first time driver impressions (hatchback sport) (pics)

[BarracksSi]

where can one learn how to drive a manual well? I've got the basics down and would now want to learn more.

Use your car for a pizza delivery job. That's how I taught myself 90% of what I knew about driving a manual trans.

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[BarracksSi]

This is generally NOT a good idea. When you don't use the brake pedal, you're not turning on your brake lights -- so anyone behind you might not realize that you're slowing down, especially if they're texting or being a typically inattentive idiot.

 

[AVLien]

This is generally NOT a good idea. When you don't use the brake pedal, you're not turning on your brake lights -- so anyone behind you might not realize that you're slowing down, especially if they're texting or being a typically inattentive idiot.

Good point. Easy way to get rear ended, with all the folks staring at anything BUT the car in front of them these days.

 

[garoto]

Using honda you can easily switch from 2 to 4 or from 4 to 6 in a non linear way.
I love it!

What? That is the absolute worst thing that you can do to a Honda Transmission.

 

[Zeffy94]

What? That is the absolute worst thing that you can do to a Honda Transmission.

I don’t see how so long as you rev match the shift properly and don’t lug the engine.

 

[garoto]

I don’t see how so long as you rev match the shift properly and don’t lug the engine.

Honda has a TechLine article strongly advising against it. If I find it I’ll share it with you, in the mean time it’s up to you if you can take my word on it.

 

[Zeffy94]

Honda has a TechLine article strongly advising against it. If I find it I’ll share it with you, in the mean time it’s up to you if you can take my word on it.

That’s interesting - if they recommend not doing it I would think they would mention it in the manual. As far as I’m aware block shifting is relatively common in a manual.

 

[David Harper]

nonsense. nothing wrong with skipping a gear if you do it right. just rev-match correctly. this is what manual transmissions are designed for.

 

[Gruber]

After you pull the transmission out of a gear, the car doesn't know or care what was that gear. You can now put it in any gear you want, assuming the movement direction, car speed, and rpm are right.
Actually, if you are starting to drive down a hill, skipping a gear would be a thing you would normally do. You could start in the second, then shift to the 4th... I would skip gears naturally, without thinking about it, when warranted. But that was after a couple of years of driving MT, after I learned to always know the right gear without thinking about it....

 

[Gruber]

It is also possible to shift gears without using the clutch at all. But that requires a mastery of the stick exceeding the famous but trivial in comparison "heel and toe."

I know the beginners on their first MT drive will now want to try it. Because if you need the clutch to shift gears, you are still a stick noob.


But seriously, don't try it at home. If you master it, it might work, just like catching a baseball in your teeth may work.

https://www.cartalk.com/content/i-own-car-manual-transmission-my-brother

 

[phornea]

That’s interesting - if they recommend not doing it I would think they would mention it in the manual. As far as I’m aware block shifting is relatively common in a manual.

nonsense. nothing wrong with skipping a gear if you do it right. just rev-match correctly. this is what manual transmissions are designed for.

It's not the end of the world doing this, however, yes, it does add wear if you don't know how to compensate for it. And vast majority of ppl, including those who mention "rev matching" probably don't know what I'm referring to.

There's 3 primary components within the system that need to be in sync when changing gears (not just clutch plate and engine). This is what most people don't realize. Without going into extensive details, imagine there's 3 spinning components that all need to spin at the same rate when clutch is engaged in gear. In order to ensure all 3 are spinning at the same rate when you go from gear to gear, especially when you skip gears, you need to effectively (this is the key word) perform whats known as double clutching. The transmission is built with synchros to perform the sync of the 3 components automatically and hence you don't have to double clutch. Synchros do wear out over time, but are built to last the life of the car, under normal operation without requiring you to double clutch. When you are skipping gears, you are asking those synchros to work extra hard, regardless even if you are rev matching but aren't properly double clutching. It's the equivalent of starting off the line in 2nd or higher gear, having to put extra stress on the clutch.

Having said that, the same way you're clutch's life would be reduced by extra stress, your synchros' lives will be reduced as well from skipping gears. How often you do this and how many gears you skip is what will determine the level of impact. And this can all be mitigated by properly double clutching, but this means you need to know exactly how to perform it and on the other hand you are now increasing the use/wear on your master cylinder since you are pumping the clutch more often.

 

[Wh1SL3R]

It is also possible to shift gears without using the clutch at all.

I had an older car while I was in college. I was into powerlifting and other sports and if I had a really intense training day, especially legs, I would avoid using the clutch as much as possible. Didn't really care about messing up my syncros, but holy heck does using a clutch make things muuuch faster lol

 

[phornea]

It is also possible to shift gears without using the clutch at all. But that requires a mastery of the stick exceeding the famous but trivial in comparison "heel and toe."

I know the beginners on their first MT drive will now want to try it. Because if you need the clutch to shift gears, you are still a stick noob.


But seriously, don't try it at home. If you master it, it might work, just like catching a baseball in your teeth may work.

https://www.cartalk.com/content/i-own-car-manual-transmission-my-brother

Shifting gears without the use of the clutch has nothing to do with heel and toe or something you can master. It ties in with what I just posted. Clutching allows for A, the synchros to do their job (easily and effectively) and B, to match the engine RPM to the next gear. Shifting without clutch is the absolute worst thing for the synchros (as Wh1SL3R mentioned) and the worst thing for the transmission in general. You're essentially asking the synchros to now match not only the speed of that 3rd component of the transmission (as I mentioned in my previous post), but also the speed of the engine with the selected gear (normally the job of the clutch). The synchros are definitely not built for this kind of stress or even to accomplish such a task in the first place (this is why you end up with grinding, synchros not able to take the load and force the teeth to lineup).

 

[David Harper]

It's not the end of the world doing this, however, yes, it does add wear if you don't know how to compensate for it. And vast majority of ppl, including those who mention "rev matching" probably don't know what I'm referring to.

There's 3 primary components within the system that need to be in sync when changing gears (not just clutch plate and engine). This is what most people don't realize. Without going into extensive details, imagine there's 3 spinning components that all need to spin at the same rate when clutch is engaged in gear. In order to ensure all 3 are spinning at the same rate when you go from gear to gear, especially when you skip gears, you need to effectively (this is the key word) perform whats known as double clutching. The transmission is built with synchros to perform the sync of the 3 components automatically and hence you don't have to double clutch. Synchros do wear out over time, but are built to last the life of the car, under normal operation without requiring you to double clutch. When you are skipping gears, you are asking those synchros to work extra hard, regardless even if you are rev matching but aren't properly double clutching. It's the equivalent of starting off the line in 2nd or higher gear, having to put extra stress on the clutch.

Having said that, the same way you're clutch's life would be reduced by extra stress, your synchros' lives will be reduced as well from skipping gears. How often you do this and how many gears you skip is what will determine the level of impact. And this can all be mitigated by properly double clutching, but this means you need to know exactly how to perform it and on the other hand you are now increasing the use/wear on your master cylinder since you are pumping the clutch more often.

you don't know what you're talking about

 

[phornea]

you don't know what you're talking about

thanks, very constructive

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