Launching turbo cvt. Underrated hp

tcaudo

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First off hello my name is Tom and I recently just purchased a 2016 civic ext and I love it. Im confused however in some of the reviews ive been reading and videos ive watched where people are posting their 0-60 times. For whatever reason companies like car and driver and motor trend are using "sport" mode when this in fact dramatically slows down the 0-60 times because it literally takes tenths of a second to simulate upshifting. Sport mode will NOT post the best times its just a fact. Also Ive watched videos from people like hondapro Jason and others where they show the car going 0-60 but they don't launch the damn car! They do a dead stop launch and smash the gas. Honda gave us a torque converter and you can easily launch this car with authority at 1800 rpms. I truly think this is a 6.5 or better 0-60 car that can pull 14s and trap in the mid 90s in the quarter mile. I think the cvt is not as fun as a manual true but it works perfects keeping the car at full boost and never dropping to shift. I also think Honda underrated this car's horsepower numbers. Theyre known for doing this in the past with their lower models like the 2013 2.4 liter accord. Im not sure if its for insurance reasons or to create more separation for the si or v6 trims but I think this is a 190hp car. I don't think it has the 201hp that the euro engine has because that engine is tuned for 91 octane but I do think theyre underrating with the 174hp mark. I bought this car because I wanted a good gas mileage daily driver that had some quickness and ive been very pleased with my purchase. Everyone of my friends and family have been surprised at how hard this car pulls. I think with a cold air intake and catback exhaust we have ourselves a terrific 14 second 40 mpg daily driver guys. I cant wait to hear how this car sounds with simple bolt ons. I don't wanna go crazy modding it but I do plan on doin the basics. If hondata gives us a reflash even better!
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The torque gives you acceleration, horsepower gives you top end speed. You may be feeling the generous amount of torque from this direct injected little turbo.
 

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I don't think a ton of people are gonna be into even light modding with the CVT...that crowd is waiting for the Si and Type R...

Would be nice to see the 1.5L dyno'd though. Just for curiosity's sake.

I will say I love the smooth and punchy torque...this thing pulls for days...
 

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This car has potential. People are just afraid to touch it right now. Not sure what a cold air intake would do for the turbo since it already has an intercooler, and the turbo doesn't need a cold air intake..some piping with better flow can certainly help things though which is what I plan to do.
 
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tcaudo

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I don't think a ton of people are gonna be into even light modding with the CVT...that crowd is waiting for the Si and Type R...

Would be nice to see the 1.5L dyno'd though. Just for curiosity's sake.

I will say I love the smooth and punchy torque...this thing pulls for days...
I hear what youre saying but simple bolt ons like intake exhaust are available for even the 9th generation ex's. Now we actually have high performing direct injection turbo on the ex trims. I think injen aem knn skunk and others will at least do intakes and exhausts. I
 


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I hear what youre saying but simple bolt ons like intake exhaust are available for even the 9th generation ex's. Now we actually have high performing direct injection turbo on the ex trims. I think injen aem knn skunk and others will at least do intakes and exhausts. I
I definitely welcome it, I just wonder how big the market might be. I may be underestimating it TBH
 

hondabuildquality

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The torque gives you acceleration, horsepower gives you top end speed. You may be feeling the generous amount of torque from this direct injected little turbo.
That's right that cars with higher torque numbers tend to have more area under the horsepower curve ("broader torque/horsepower curves), which helps acceleration.

Just to clear up a pet peeve of mine: Power is what moves the car. Power is the unit of measure which describes how much work can be done in a given amount of time. So it's power which is the determinant in both acceleration and top speed.

An example to illustrate: The old NA F1 cars would produce about 220 lb/ft of torque at around 15,000 - 17,000 RPM, and around 750 - 800HP. At lower revs they produce even less torque than either of the Civic's motors.

Torque is just a measure of force.

Power is a measure of how much work can be done in a given amount of time.

How much work you can do in a given amount of time defines how fast the car can accelerate.

So it is horsepower which determines acceleration, and horsepower is what determines top speed.

This misnomer is prevalent everywhere, especially with journalists.

When you step on the gas in a car with a big V8 and it immediately pushes you back in your seat, it's not because the engine is producing a lot of torque, it's because the engine is producing a lot of power.

Engines with high torque numbers tend to most often engines that produce a lot of power at low RPM.

I had to get this off my chest one of these days.
 

mcopolo

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First off hello my name is Tom and I recently just purchased a 2016 civic ext and I love it. Im confused however in some of the reviews ive been reading and videos ive watched where people are posting their 0-60 times. For whatever reason companies like car and driver and motor trend are using "sport" mode when this in fact dramatically slows down the 0-60 times because it literally takes tenths of a second to simulate upshifting. Sport mode will NOT post the best times its just a fact. Also Ive watched videos from people like hondapro Jason and others where they show the car going 0-60 but they don't launch the damn car! They do a dead stop launch and smash the gas. Honda gave us a torque converter and you can easily launch this car with authority at 1800 rpms. I truly think this is a 6.5 or better 0-60 car that can pull 14s and trap in the mid 90s in the quarter mile. I think the cvt is not as fun as a manual true but it works perfects keeping the car at full boost and never dropping to shift. I also think Honda underrated this car's horsepower numbers. Theyre known for doing this in the past with their lower models like the 2013 2.4 liter accord. Im not sure if its for insurance reasons or to create more separation for the si or v6 trims but I think this is a 190hp car. I don't think it has the 201hp that the euro engine has because that engine is tuned for 91 octane but I do think theyre underrating with the 174hp mark. I bought this car because I wanted a good gas mileage daily driver that had some quickness and ive been very pleased with my purchase. Everyone of my friends and family have been surprised at how hard this car pulls. I think with a cold air intake and catback exhaust we have ourselves a terrific 14 second 40 mpg daily driver guys. I cant wait to hear how this car sounds with simple bolt ons. I don't wanna go crazy modding it but I do plan on doin the basics. If hondata gives us a reflash even better!
I def. agree that the HP is underrated. On the highway, I can speed pass everyone without knowing it...I just drive like how I did with my CSX and before you know it....I am going 120 km/hr. My CSX has 155 HP so I don't think 20 HP would make that much of difference. Is either that or that is how the turbo is...since this is my first turbo car...so far I am loving it...:)
 
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tcaudo

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I def. agree that the HP is underrated. On the highway, I can speed pass everyone without knowing it...I just drive like how I did with my CSX and before you know it....I am going 120 km/hr. My CSX has 155 HP so I don't think 20 HP would make that much of difference. Is either that or that is how the turbo is...since this is my first turbo car...so far I am loving it...:)
I had a 2003 rsx type s with bolt ons and i really think this car pulls harder even tho this civic runs on regular and gets 10mpg better than the rsx! Im in LOVE with the growl this car makes. A more free flowing dual exhaust along with removing that restrictive air box on our intake should really help this turbo engine breathe! That torque band is impressive with max torque achieved at 1800rpm-5000rpm and i easily drive around hardly ever needing to go above 2000rpm to reach highway speeds. No civic was ever like that! I just hope people understand that "sport" mode was made to make driving more fun and responsive but regular "drive" mode is faster. The cvt trans has really grown on me. It feels like you put no strain on the drivetrain when you drive this car with care. No high revs or clunky shifts. Just a smooth ride.
 

haztorks

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That torque band is impressive with max torque achieved at 1800rpm-5000rpm and i easily drive around hardly ever needing to go above 2000rpm to reach highway speeds. No civic was ever like that!
That's what I'm feeling, as well. Refined, like a much larger engine in there. People are talking about how you don't need the turbo, and it's an added complexity and maintenance nightmare. SMH...that's fine and all, I get it, but the turbo is really freaking nice to drive. Very enjoyable. Let's put Hondas reliability aside, even then on its own, is crazy good at doing what it does. I don't doubt they ripped a few Germans off with this stuff. After all, their first task was to take apart the whole C segment over there.
 


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That's right that cars with higher torque numbers tend to have more area under the horsepower curve ("broader torque/horsepower curves), which helps acceleration.

Just to clear up a pet peeve of mine: Power is what moves the car. Power is the unit of measure which describes how much work can be done in a given amount of time. So it's power which is the determinant in both acceleration and top speed.

An example to illustrate: The old NA F1 cars would produce about 220 lb/ft of torque at around 15,000 - 17,000 RPM, and around 750 - 800HP. At lower revs they produce even less torque than either of the Civic's motors.

Torque is just a measure of force.

Power is a measure of how much work can be done in a given amount of time.

How much work you can do in a given amount of time defines how fast the car can accelerate.

So it is horsepower which determines acceleration, and horsepower is what determines top speed.

This misnomer is prevalent everywhere, especially with journalists.

When you step on the gas in a car with a big V8 and it immediately pushes you back in your seat, it's not because the engine is producing a lot of torque, it's because the engine is producing a lot of power.

Engines with high torque numbers tend to most often engines that produce a lot of power at low RPM.

I had to get this off my chest one of these days.

Let me know if I'm way off here:

You can't really look at both independently, they are tied together here (Imperial units): Horsepower = (Torque x RPMs) / 5252

Horse power determines the maximum top speed the vehicle will travel given all other things being equal (mass, frontal area, drag coefficient, rolling resistance, drive-line efficiency, proper gearing for each engine's RPM etc.).

The amount of torque developed by the engine determines how quickly it can accelerate to that top speed. For example two 200 hp cars run a race, one develops 230 ft-lbs of torque and the second develops 150 ft-lbs of torque. The first vehicle will leap away from the second every time but they will both eventually hit the same top speed.

Two different cars run a race, both develop 250 ft-lbs of torque, one is 180 hp, the second is a 300 hp car. Both will start out accelerating at the same rate but the 300 hp car will max out at a higher top speed.

Please take the "same" top speed and "same" rate of acceleration with a grain of salt as we both know gearing is a big factor and affects RPM at the wheels for given engine RPM.

A good little read: https://danielmiessler.com/study/horsepower/
 
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tcaudo

tcaudo

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That's what I'm feeling, as well. Refined, like a much larger engine in there. People are talking about how you don't need the turbo, and it's an added complexity and maintenance nightmare. SMH...that's fine and all, I get it, but the turbo is really freaking nice to drive. Very enjoyable. Let's put Hondas reliability aside, even then on its own, is crazy good at doing what it does. I don't doubt they ripped a few Germans off with this stuff. After all, their first task was to take apart the whole C segment over there.
Turbos can be extremely durable and reliable. Honda used premium quality metals for the turbo and i believe it all comes down to how the driver maintains the car and above all DRIVES THE CAR lol if you constantly have the turbo pushed to its limits of course its going to fail but i think honda knows what theyre doing as good as anyone else when it comes to reliability
 

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Let me know if I'm way off here:

You can't really look at both independently, they are tied together here (Imperial units): Horsepower = (Torque x RPMs) / 5252

Horse power determines the maximum top speed the vehicle will travel given all other things being equal (mass, frontal area, drag coefficient, rolling resistance, drive-line efficiency, proper gearing for each engine's RPM etc.).

The amount of torque developed by the engine determines how quickly it can accelerate to that top speed. For example two 200 hp cars run a race, one develops 230 ft-lbs of torque and the second develops 150 ft-lbs of torque. The first vehicle will leap away from the second every time but they will both eventually hit the same top speed.

Two different cars run a race, both develop 250 ft-lbs of torque, one is 180 hp, the second is a 300 hp car. Both will start out accelerating at the same rate but the 300 hp car will max out at a higher top speed.

Please take the "same" top speed and "same" rate of acceleration with a grain of salt as we both know gearing is a big factor and affects RPM at the wheels for given engine RPM.

A good little read: https://danielmiessler.com/study/horsepower/
Not really correct. The one that will win the race is the one that puts down the highest average power. The cars would be geared differently to help enable them to put down the most power.

Power is what matters. Your perception of torque can be described as the ability to create more power at low engine speed.
 

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Not really correct. The one that will win the race is the one that puts down the highest average power. The cars would be geared differently to help enable them to put down the most power.

Power is what matters. Your perception of torque can be described as the ability to create more power at low engine speed.
Like I said "given all other things being equal (mass, frontal area, drag coefficient, rolling resistance, drive-line efficiency, proper gearing for each engine's RPM etc.)."

Horsepower is a function of torque and RPM. I stand by my original statement: Higher torque will give you better acceleration, Higher HP will allow the vehicle to achieve higher top speed. Talk around it as much as you want, this is Physics/ Basic Dynamics.

As for winning races, for short races or constant positive and negative acceleration, more torque will win. For long races, more HP wins.

Have a look here for Torque VS HP video:
 

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I love my 1.5t, honestly it feels just as fast as my old car, a 2001 Lexus GS430. And that car supposedly does 0-60 in under 6 seconds.

All while getting double the mpg on regular gas. This car is easily the best in the class for mpg:hp.
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