Lacking Character - My (long) Si Review

[TheComebackKid]

For me it was a bit of a no-brainer between the Hatch Sport Touring and the Si.
I leased and the Si was $1200 less and the depreciation was also $500 less and the interest was 1.99% as opposed to 2.99%. All that makes a difference of $80/month.
$80/month less for more power, LSD, better suspension. Sounds good to me!

Even the Hatch Sport was $10/month more.

I didn't even consider the Coupe as I have a car seat in the back. And for the sedan in Canada the EX-T and Touring do not come in manual.

Review: Love it! Nice power, love the gearbox and the suspension/steering makes for a great handling car. I also bought the Si compared to other cars in it's class for the fuel economy. Here in Canada we are paying $1.22/liter (that's $4.30/gallon) so yeah fuel economy matters to me and most Canadians. I do mostly city driving and my last car (Ford Escape 2.0T, same engine as the FoST) was killing me on gas.

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[Dave2Si]

I just bought a 2017 Civic Si and am now reading all the reviews I can find. Honestly, this was the first post that was negative, it generally has glowing reviews. For me this model checks all the boxes. Yes, I could care less about leather seats, and do not want a total track performance machine for driving to Dunkin Donuts at 6am.
This review from Jalopnik.com on the Si sums up my take on this car:

The 2017 Honda Civic Si is no revelation of automotive excellence. But it’s easy to live with, encourages hard driving and has a little attitude without making you look like an asshole. Messing around with this car is enough to lure anyone into driving for the fun of it, and that’s exactly the point.

 

[repeet]

I bought my Si about the same time as the OP, and have over 83,000 miles on it now. This is my second "Si". My first was a '95 Prelude. The Prelude was more fun to drive.

Don't get me wrong, I like my Si and try to find excuses to drive it. But every time I do, I find myself pushing on the car trying to realize the fullness of its promise, but never quite finding it.

I bought a Ktuner and ran about 10,000 miles on a 21 tune. It was "quicker" numbers wise, but did't feel that much faster on the butt dyno. Certainly not enough to justify the added wear and stress that additional pressure causes to our engines. The 1.5 is not proving itself to be very "robust".

So I went back to "Factory Tune" a little over a thousand miles ago, and find myself enjoying the car just as much, if not more than when it was tuned. If feels just as "solid" and "quick" with just a little bit more of that gawd awful rev hang.

I've come to the conclusion that you can only do just so much with 91 cu. inches.

I agree with the OP. The Si lacks character. I doubt I will buy another one.

 

[VarmintCong]

I bought my Si about the same time as the OP, and have over 83,000 miles on it now. This is my second "Si". My first was a '95 Prelude. The Prelude was more fun to drive.

Don't get me wrong, I like my Si and try to find excuses to drive it. But every time I do, I find myself pushing on the car trying to realize the fullness of its promise, but never quite finding it.

I bought a Ktuner and ran about 10,000 miles on a 21 tune. It was "quicker" numbers wise, but did't feel that much faster on the butt dyno. Certainly not enough to justify the added wear and stress that additional pressure causes to our engines. The 1.5 is not proving itself to be very "robust".

So I went back to "Factory Tune" a little over a thousand miles ago, and find myself enjoying the car just as much, if not more than when it was tuned. If feels just as "solid" and "quick" with just a little bit more of that gawd awful rev hang.

I've come to the conclusion that you can only do just so much with 91 cu. inches.

I agree with the OP. The Si lacks character. I doubt I will buy another one.

I'd love a modern car that drives like a '95 Prelude. Does it exist? What is better than an Si among new cars? I'd like to try a BRZ but the engine doesn't seem special like a Prelude. Seems to me these days you gotta spend $60k go get character. Or buy 10 year old cars.

 

[SixSpeeder]

I've got to completely disagree with the lack of character statements, the engine is not the selling point of the Si when comparing it to other sub $30k fun cars. It out handles the GTI, the WRX, and matches the handling of the Veloster N. It weighs less than all of them which is noticeable when you drive them back to back. It's also slower in a straight line than all of them. If you're going after raw acceleration, the competition is a better starting point but only marginally better.

My daily driver before the Si was a 2018 Miata Club that I drove in rain, snow, and shine:

That car is touted as arguably one of the most fun street cars that you can own (I'd agree) and its engine was not the reason why. A lot of what I enjoyed about that car on the street is what made me purchase the Si when I was shopping around for hatchbacks and sedans. The nimble handling and lightweight feel of the Si is noticeable compared to the competition, they feel like heavier cars when you throw them into a turn and when braking.

Car and Driver set a lap time in the Si that was 6 seconds quicker than the Miata ND at VIR. The Miata is no slouch on a track, it can take a turn much quicker than cars that will blow its doors off at a stop light. But character isn't about numbers on paper at all, I've owned very fast cars that lacked character (imo). I think that the way the Si dances on a twisty road is full of character with its excellent steering and extremely predictable handling. If there were no aftermarket and no way to tune the Si, I'd still love it just as much. The fact that you can cheaply make more power is just a bonus. If I lived in TX or someplace with high speed limits and straight roads, I wouldn't own a Si (or a Miata).

 

[zroger73]

My daily driver before the Si was a 2018 Miata Club that I drove in rain, snow, and shine:

That car is touted as arguably one of the most fun street cars that you can own (I'd agree) and its engine was not the reason why.

I really enjoyed my 2017 Civic Si as a daily driver while my 2017 Ridgeline was used for weekend duty. After the Si was vandalized, I traded it for a 2018 Accord Sport 2.0T 10AT which was a lot faster, but not nearly as fun. I traded the Accord and Ridgeline for a 2019 RDX which was awful. I traded the RDX for a 2019 Ridgeline and added a 2019 MX-5 Miata Grand Touring w/ GT-S package. The Ridgeline blew its tranny at 14,000 miles and had interior water leaks and other problems. Honda told me to go pound sand after having bought 11 new Hondas from 2006-2018 so I traded the Ridgeline for a 2020 CX-5 Signature after having been impressed with my Miata's quality. Both Mazdas have been perfect (just like the Hondas I owned prior to 2016).

The Si is a comfortable and sporty daily driver that adds a bit of excitement to the commute. However, you can't beat the light weight, balance, and RWD of the Miata. And, the increased HP and 7,500 RPM redline for 2019 are a nice bonus. I was worried about leaks or rattles in my first convertible, but the Miata appears very well engineered - I've had absolutely no problems whatsoever with it. After having owned nothing but Hondas for years and experienced a big decline in quality since 2016, I've found Mazda's quality to be impressive. I'm going to have to witness some major improvements in quality and customer service at Honda before I'll consider buying or recommending another one.

 

[longthaitran91]

When I first test drove the 2017 si, it was love at first sight. It ticked every box I wanted. Lsd(bruh I see a unicorn), great gas mileage for a sports car, amazing handling, good power, Apple CarPlay, bolstered seats(the heated seats is weird for cloth but a nice bonus), aggressive look for the coupe, the large hood reminds me of the 96-00 civics and giant cup holders(2L sodas from Pizza Hut/dominos fit. I tested it. Idk why store bottles are fatter). Part of my bias Is possibly the fact I came from an 03 Hyundai tiburon gt and undying hatred for the 9th gen platform other than the k24 engine. When my buddy took me for a ride in his 2015 si, the power felt better than my si, but it lacks refinement in the corners. The body roll felt like I was in non sporty car. Better than a 97 accord lx but worse than a 96 civic ex. I have no doubt it certainly handles better than a 96 civic, but it just feels ....ehh... I can’t really compare my tiburon because the shocks were broken and I drove it like that my entire time I owned it. Now that I’ve driven my si for 3 years I do feel the some urge for more. I don’t feel the kick from boost anymore. Could be the clutch not holding as well anymore. Idk. It’s now my work car(45k miles. 5k of it is delivery miles) and if I kill the engine or turbo from overdriving it, whatever. I’ll just put in another one. I’m quite sure there’s plenty of people over 100k and they are fine. I already have the ktuner set to 24psi on sport mode and left non sport to factory. Tires are pirelli pz4s. I might change them for the Michelin pilot sport all season 4s for better tread life. Idk what to do about suspension yet. I can’t lower the car because roads in downtown Austin and apartment entrances absolutely suck. Even stock height will scrape if you’re not careful. Growing up in suburbs didn’t train me for this ?

 

[repeet]

@zroger73, The Mazda 6 I owned before my Si was utterly dependable. Slow and boring, but it required no repairs for the 212,000 miles that I owned it. It did have a nice solid and comfortable feel to it though.

I'm afraid the the blending of Emissions Requirements with computer control has conspired to change the way cars "feel". This is most noticeable when the car has a standard transmission. Add that to the unfortunate decision to use two piece flywheels, and the "standard transmission" driving experience has been doomed to be something alien to what it used to be. (I wonder if this was done on purpose).

Because of these "advances" in technology, and that fact that the new "automatic" transmissions can shift faster than any human. I have decided that I am done with cursing myself with a degraded driving experience, and for the first time in 65 years, will be buying "automatic" transmissions going forward. Hopefully a high torque electric vehicle.

 

[zroger73]

@zroger73, The Mazda 6 I owned before my Si was utterly dependable. Slow and boring, but it required no repairs for the 212,000 miles that I owned it. It did have a nice solid and comfortable feel to it though.

I'm afraid the the blending of Emissions Requirements with computer control has conspired to change the way cars "feel". This is most noticeable when the car has a standard transmission. Add that to the unfortunate decision to use two piece flywheels, and the "standard transmission" driving experience has been doomed to be something alien to what it used to be. (I wonder if this was done on purpose).

Because of these "advances" in technology, and that fact that the new "automatic" transmissions can shift faster than any human. I have decided that I am done with cursing myself with a degraded driving experience, and for the first time in 65 years, will be buying "automatic" transmissions going forward. Hopefully a high torque electric vehicle.

The current Mazda6 with the 2.5L turbo is quite entertaining, but 320 lb-ft in a mid-size, FWD sedan is excessive. It feels nice in the AWD CX-5 making it slightly faster than the Acura RDX. I'm anxious to drive the AWD Mazda3 which gains the 2.5L turbo for 2021.

The dual-mass flywheel Mazda started using in the 2019 Miata has the same inertia as the single-mass unit it replaced so there's added smoothness with no performance penalty proving that it can be done. Rev hang generally doesn't bother me as much as it does some people, but there's significantly less of it in the Miata than the Si. And, of course, there's no turbo lag in the Miata which offers a high-RPM experience reminiscent of the 1.8L and 2.0L Civic Si, but with enough low-RPM torque to be useful around town without having the engine screaming.

I love the silent, instant torque of EVs and drive one every chance I get! I still can't justify buying one for myself, though. As goofy as it looks, I've got my eye on the Tesla Cybertruck if it ever comes to fruition.

 

[SixSpeeder]

I really enjoyed my 2017 Civic Si as a daily driver while my 2017 Ridgeline was used for weekend duty. After the Si was vandalized, I traded it for a 2018 Accord Sport 2.0T 10AT which was a lot faster, but not nearly as fun. I traded the Accord and Ridgeline for a 2019 RDX which was awful. I traded the RDX for a 2019 Ridgeline and added a 2019 MX-5 Miata Grand Touring w/ GT-S package. The Ridgeline blew its tranny at 14,000 miles and had interior water leaks and other problems. Honda told me to go pound sand after having bought 11 new Hondas from 2006-2018 so I traded the Ridgeline for a 2020 CX-5 Signature after having been impressed with my Miata's quality. Both Mazdas have been perfect (just like the Hondas I owned prior to 2016).

The Si is a comfortable and sporty daily driver that adds a bit of excitement to the commute. However, you can't beat the light weight, balance, and RWD of the Miata. And, the increased HP and 7,500 RPM redline for 2019 are a nice bonus. I was worried about leaks or rattles in my first convertible, but the Miata appears very well engineered - I've had absolutely no problems whatsoever with it. After having owned nothing but Hondas for years and experienced a big decline in quality since 2016, I've found Mazda's quality to be impressive. I'm going to have to witness some major improvements in quality and customer service at Honda before I'll consider buying or recommending another one.

Yeah, I'm not saying that the Si is as fun to drive as my ND because it's not. They are very different vehicles with different purposes. Just that the driving experience on the street is comparable with the handling being one of the best parts of the experience. A lot of the complaints that I see about the Si are about the engine which I can sympathize with to some degree, but didn't people know what they were getting into before buying it? It's the slowest in its segment in a straight line, but the handling is the top of its class. If people bought it to win stoplight races, they should have done more research before buying.

I still haven't driven a ND2, I don't trust myself not to buy one. I know that I'd love the improvements. The amount of passion that goes into designing and continually improving that car by the engineers is second to none. I never had any issues with leaks in an extremely damp climate with mine so you probably have nothing to worry about. Hopefully I don't have any quality issues with my Si, the forum will be the first to know if I do.

 

[SixSpeeder]

@zroger73, The Mazda 6 I owned before my Si was utterly dependable. Slow and boring, but it required no repairs for the 212,000 miles that I owned it. It did have a nice solid and comfortable feel to it though.

I'm afraid the the blending of Emissions Requirements with computer control has conspired to change the way cars "feel". This is most noticeable when the car has a standard transmission. Add that to the unfortunate decision to use two piece flywheels, and the "standard transmission" driving experience has been doomed to be something alien to what it used to be. (I wonder if this was done on purpose).

Because of these "advances" in technology, and that fact that the new "automatic" transmissions can shift faster than any human. I have decided that I am done with cursing myself with a degraded driving experience, and for the first time in 65 years, will be buying "automatic" transmissions going forward. Hopefully a high torque electric vehicle.

Manuals aren't dead yet, there are still a ton of cool cars available with three pedals. But they will never be as fast as a modern auto, they're just for fun now unlike the old days. Some companies do the electronic tuning part better than others.

 

[zroger73]

Yeah, I'm not saying that the Si is as fun to drive as my ND because it's not. They are very different vehicles with different purposes. Just that the driving experience on the street is comparable with the handling being one of the best parts of the experience. A lot of the complaints that I see about the Si are about the engine which I can sympathize with to some degree, but didn't people know what they were getting into before buying it? It's the slowest in its segment in a straight line, but the handling is the top of its class. If people bought it to win stoplight races, they should have done more research before buying.

I still haven't driven a ND2, I don't trust myself not to buy one. I know that I'd love the improvements. The amount of passion that goes into designing and continually improving that car by the engineers is second to none. I never had any issues with leaks in an extremely damp climate with mine so you probably have nothing to worry about. Hopefully I don't have any quality issues with my Si, the forum will be the first to know if I do.

Before I got the Miata, I had already made a deal on another new Si (2019 white sedan) and had planned to go pick it up - it's just such a terrific value. Ultimately, I decided to get something that was very different than most everything else out there (I like driving different things as evidenced by my ownership of five Ridgelines - haha!) even though it cost $8K more. While I could drive the Miata daily, I'd rather it remain a garage queen - I managed to put 2,500 miles on it in a year so far - and it feels and looks just as special today as it did when I drove it home. It's never even seen the rain and will probably go down as one of the few automobiles I've kept for more than a year. Each time I've been to a press drive event where there are multiple makes and models present, the Miata has been one of my favorites along with the Mustang Shelby GT350. Hellcats are "thrilling", but not "fun" in the same way as a Miata.

 

[Design]

I have a feeling the Si will go up in demand slightly while production goes on hiatus for the next 18 months. I've put on almost 60K on mine in the three years I've owned it. For the price, it's hard to find a better balance of performance and practicality. Though like @zroger73 , I've been a little disappointed in Honda's recent QA issues. My expansion valve/evaporator failed at 54K which was an estimated $2K to fix. But Honda stepped up and covered 90%, and even threw in the condenser warranty replacement proactively.

For me, the most enjoyable aspect of the car is that it's efficient when I want it to be, and responsive when I demand more. It has nearly everything I wanted for a typical grocery getter. I just added HIDs, a tune, and the leather center console.

This car definitely has character - especially when pushed hard. It's just a little lacking in the powertrain dept out of the box.

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