Kept the CTR and bought a REAL American muscle car too!

d15b7

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just as a fun post, cause I wasn't planning on bringing it up, but then I saw the post blow up with the 'sold my CTR for a Tesla 'muscle car'! so I've owned my '18 CTR since brand new. it's totally stock except for the removal of the 20" wheels and addition of 18" Rays (I live in the northeast USA and the roads totally are bombed out and suck here especially in wintertime, so the 18s were almost a must). I love the CTR and won't ever sell it, BUT..... I love and appreciate other cars too, and since I already own what is arguably the 'best, most bad ass FWD driver's car out there', I was starting to get the itch to also own the 'best baddest RWD coupe' out there simultaneously, so I started looking around in earnest about two months ago. after careful consideration and driving various different cars (some Porsches, some BMWs, a GT350R and others) I ended up buying and bringing home what I think, personally, is pretty much the baddest RWD coupe on the planet right now (and within a somewhat reasonable price point; I know there are some crazy super low production hyper cars out there but spending that sort of money isn't my bag, baby!!).

I ended up with a very lightly used (1700 miles) 2020 ZL1 1LE (the Extreme Track Pack), with a 6 speed manual trans, and in an ultra ultra rare color (Rally Green Metallic). she's also bone stock, and perfect condition. I love her!! (I'll put a couple pics in with this post; the color is amazing, as it changes in the sunlight. lots of metallic in it, looking very green in the sunlight. in artificial light it looks almost black barely any green to it. and the carbon fiber accents really set it off nicely I think).

OK on to the comparisons between the two:

1. Looks: I really like the way my Championship White CTR looks; it makes me smile and turn around and look back at it every time I park it and walk away. Especially the front 3/4 view. BUT -- gotta give it to the ZL1 1LE in the looks department. this baby is aggressive and mean and really looks like it means serious business.
2. Sound: I mean, come on man. the ZLE all the way. it sounds incredible, from startup to winding it out. even has a stealth mode/track mode exhaust valve system in case you want it to cruise quietly (but why would you want that?!?)
3. all out handling: by this I mean, as such on a racetrack or a smooth well paved road. the CTR handles INCREDIBLE. but the ZLE is better. the 305 front and 325 rear Rcompounds that it comes with from the factory make it grip like glue (when they are warmed up. they are terrible when cold). and the racing Spool Valve DSSV shocks and adjustable swaybars and incredibly stiff springs again make it a full race car (it has solid bushings in the rear cradle lots of other places too). the Elsd is SUPER tight and aggressive and puts the power down amazingly well. all out handling no brainer goes to the ZLE.
4. braking: the CTR brakes are great. the ZLE are on another level altogether. they are 6 piston front Brembo and 4 rear. huge huge floating front rotor (15.5" I think). braking is stupid amazing in this car. better even than the GT3 I drove. its mind bending.
5. on the road ride/comfort: HANDS DOWN the CTR. the ZLE is brutally stiff. I can't stress this enough it's brutal ride. I live in the Northeast and there is no way in hell I could daily this car. it would beat me to death. it's a freaking racecar trying to drive on the street. hands down the CTR is better in all ways in this category. the CTR in +R is about 5x softer than the ZLE (and it only has one setting. brutal lol)
6. Power/acceleration/top end etc. hands down the ZLE. it's not even close. when you floor this girl in 3rd/4th/ even 5th it lays you back and feels like the space shuttle. 650/650 is no joke.
7. shifting: both have fantastic transmissions. I think I prefer the CTR by a tiny bit. I like the precision and lightness of the CTR. but the big Tremec in this car shifts better than pretty much anything else, other than my Type R. CTR wins here by a whisker
8. comfort features interior etc: amazingly the ZLE has a ton of creature comfort stuff that I wouldn't have believed, such as heated/cooled seats and steering wheel. a fantastic sound system (way better than CTRs). a really nice infotainment system that works great (better than CTR). and really really good seats. I love the recaro seats. but the CTR seats, at least for my body shape, beat out recaros in the ZLE by a tiny margin. the interior materials are pretty nice too. still I probably give the 'interior feel and comfort' features to the ZLE. (but the totally brutal ride really quashes all that anyway lol)
9. performance gauges and features: the ZLE completely blows the CTR out of the water here. there are gauges for monitoring freaking EVERYTHING when it comes to track duty. every possible temp you could want to measure of everything. oil pressure too of course. and the PDR built in lap timing and video software is great. I even like the HUD display. no contest here.
10. fuel economy: HA HA HA! the CTR wins this by miles lol. I drive mine all the time and routinely get 25-30 mpg. in mixed driving same sort of thing I'm getting 12-13 in the ZLE. she's a thirsty girl lol.
11. value: this is hard to call. I'd give this category to the CTR mainly cause you can daily it and carry four people and it's fast and fun. and it's $30k less cost. BUT -- when you consider that the ZL1 1LE is one of the fastest track cars on the planet, and crushes most cars costing 3-4x it's cost? you can see how there is incredible value there too. and if you like to drive a car that is rarely if ever seen on the street? (not that the CTR is common, but I've seen probably at least 50 CTRs on the street in the last 3 years. I've never ever seen another ZLE on the street (I've seen two at the racetrack though).
12. durability/quality: typically I'd give this to the CTR hands down. but (big BUT here) -- if your intended use is to really thrash and push and track the car? the ZLE feels bullet proof and by all accounts is near bullet proof. the cooling systems it has onboard are ludicrous (like 13 radiators/coolers!). they say it is near impossible to overheat. and so far with my driving it has felt extremely well put together and rock solid. it's built to be abused.

so ya, there's my 'I love my CTR and plan to keep it forever, but bought it a RWD companion and this is what I think so far' post! feel free to ask any questions you have and I'll try to answer them.

PS for daily use I can see the merit in the Telsa. but for stir the soul and feel like you are driving something REALLY f'ing special? no contest with the ZL1 1LE (or the Type R for that matter). I feel these cars are a dying breed and will soon be extinct, and thats one of the many reasons I pulled the trigger on this one right now.

Honda Civic 10th gen Kept the CTR and bought a REAL American muscle car too! IMG_0469.JPG


Honda Civic 10th gen Kept the CTR and bought a REAL American muscle car too! IMG_0470.JPG


Honda Civic 10th gen Kept the CTR and bought a REAL American muscle car too! IMG_0472.JPG
 

Bodhizefa

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Looks amazing. I love that color -- I've never seen it in that shade before. Great write-up and I love the comparisons!
 

boosted180sx

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amazing.

if i was to buy an american muscle car, the ZL1 1LE is on the top of my list for sure.
that thing looks so aggressive
 

Byron Sexton

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Looks sweet I love it.
 


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d15b7

d15b7

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N O W you're talking muscle :thumbsup:

The colour is awesome. What engine and figures doe that beauty run?
the engine is the LT4 6.2 liter supercharged. it's 650 hp / 650 tq. it's a monster! for drag racing they recommend the standard ZL1 (non 1LE) with the 10 sp automatic. the standard ZL1 has the mag ride suspension (kinda like what our CTRs have) that allows you to soften it up a lot and transfer weight to the rear wheels at the dig. and the A10 trans shifts lightning fast. they say low 11 sec pass on stock tires at around 128 mph, so it'll get on down the road. easy 10s on drag radials (wheelspin is a thing with these cars)
 

chattanoogaR

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I've only owned one green vehicle in my 50+, but this beautiful beast and I could be great friends.
 

Jwolf

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Click bait.

This MFer is trying to ride off the other threads popularity.

Will you track it though? I can just smell the brown in your pants after the cost of consumables.
 

ehCobra

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Fantastic choice! I'm personally kinda intrigued by the Turbo 1LE. If I hadn't picked the Civic I think they'd be on the menu.
 

suhhh

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Wow had no idea this color existed it's beautiful. My buddy has a ZL1 and tracks it heavy, that thing is an absolute beast
 


BrokeCTROwner

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Click bait.

This MFer is trying to ride off the other threads popularity.

Will you track it though? I can just smell the brown in your pants after the cost of consumables.
Dunno what this guys problem is. But in no world is a Tesla a muscle car
 
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d15b7

d15b7

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Click bait.

This MFer is trying to ride off the other threads popularity.

Will you track it though? I can just smell the brown in your pants after the cost of consumables.
I'm sorry I didn't mean to glom onto someone else's thread; as I mentioned I had purchased my ZLE a couple weeks ago and wasn't making plans to say anything much about it but then I saw the Tesla guy comparing his new M3 to the CTR as a 'muscle car' and it struck me as something I should post up and compare to (what I consider as anyway) a true american style muscle car (even though the Alpha chassis that this car rides on was engineered mostly in Europe I believe). but the engine is all american that's for sure lol! :)

I probably won't track it. I haven't tracked my CTR either. I own and race (NASA and SCCA and VRG) two of my personal cars and drive one for another team that I don't own. my personal cars are below ('95 Honda Civic EG with K24/20 frankenstein EFR7163 turbo) and a Lotus Super Seven. the EG should be comparable on track to the ZLE laptime wise (I'm working on trying to dial in the EG to make it even faster; I've owned it for 24 yrs and raced it for 21 yrs but its always been a work in progress!).

It doesn't make sense to me to risk such a pristine beautiful low production special car on track; I might take it to an occasional DE (I Instruct and do some pro coaching) just to see what it's really like at full chat one day, but for now no plans on tracking her right away.

Honda Civic 10th gen Kept the CTR and bought a REAL American muscle car too! IMG_5048.JPG


Honda Civic 10th gen Kept the CTR and bought a REAL American muscle car too! Civic at 2019 UTCC
 

Jwolf

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I'm sorry I didn't mean to glom onto someone else's thread; as I mentioned I had purchased my ZLE a couple weeks ago and wasn't making plans to say anything much about it but then I saw the Tesla guy comparing his new M3 to the CTR as a 'muscle car' and it struck me as something I should post up and compare to (what I consider as anyway) a true american style muscle car (even though the Alpha chassis that this car rides on was engineered mostly in Europe I believe). but the engine is all american that's for sure lol! :)

I probably won't track it. I haven't tracked my CTR either. I own and race (NASA and SCCA and VRG) two of my personal cars and drive one for another team that I don't own. my personal cars are below ('95 Honda Civic EG with K24/20 frankenstein EFR7163 turbo) and a Lotus Super Seven. the EG should be comparable on track to the ZLE laptime wise (I'm working on trying to dial in the EG to make it even faster; I've owned it for 24 yrs and raced it for 21 yrs but its always been a work in progress!).

It doesn't make sense to me to risk such a pristine beautiful low production special car on track; I might take it to an occasional DE (I Instruct and do some pro coaching) just to see what it's really like at full chat one day, but for now no plans on tracking her right away.

IMG_5048.JPG


Civic at 2019 UTCC.jpg
I was being silly!

That EG tho... holy shit makes me break into a sweat just looking at it, love it.

You're where I want to be at. But not enough money to fund racing sucks.
 
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d15b7

d15b7

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I was being silly!

That EG tho... holy shit makes me break into a sweat just looking at it, love it.

You're where I want to be at. But not enough money to fund racing sucks.
haha no worries! I didn't want to be stepping on anyone else's toes in the CTR community!

ya my EG is a special car to me. over the years it and I have been through a lot. I used to race it wheel to wheel for many years (back with EMRA and then as a Honda Challenge H1 car). now it's mostly a Time Attack and hill climb car (with the big turbo heat management is really an issue and long runs aren't something it likes to do lol). it's a handful to drive compared to the ZLE, that's for sure. the clip below was at the Ultimate Track Car Challenge time attack in 2019; it's the fastest that it's ever gone at VIR full track. 2:01.9 sec lap. and it was having major overheating issues (it was 90 + out that day) so I had the power turned down to wastegate (about 440-450 whp) and was short shifting it everywhere. also was having issues with the front suspension deflecting (I think that's cured now hopefully after rebuilding everything over the winter).

this is what it looks like from the drivers seat: https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmUHWCpbUJmArDc6VlFjH6wsdnTN?e=TTJveH

for reference, the there is a guy who owns a ZLE in the Mid Atlantic who is of high skill level and does Time Trials with it. bone stock (tires brake pads engine everything) he did a 1:58.9 lap with his. that is ASTRONOMICALLY fast in a stock car!!! he's modded his some now and is down in the 1:56.x range on Hoosier A7s and brake pads and bigger wing (but still stock power).

I believe that now that I have the front suspension sorted out and a much better ducting system for the intercooler and radiator, that I have a shot at a 1:58.x in the EG. maybe. we'll see later this year I guess!

that just shows you how freaking amazing the stock ZLE is
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