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What horsepower level are you at?


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Caestus

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A big turbo may not be the best idea if you can't sufficiently fuel it. Air means nothing if there isn't enough fuel to match. I don't know enough about turbo physics to say conclusively though, will need some of my civicx friends to learns me something with that.

Regarding the misfires though.. that's unusual. Do you have a Hondata or KTuner to doublecheck the codes with? I have a serious case of ghost knock retard myself, but I've never once seen a misfire code and I hoon the SHIT out of my R.

I have Hondata, now it's important to note... I am NOT getting any check engine lights and the car feels strong, I just randomly check with my Autel Scan tool. MY AFR seems pretty good according to data logs. 11.9 or so under WOT and 14.7 ish normally.

It makes sense about the fuel vs big turbo though...
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Check you afr and make sure your not running to lean. I had a dirty MAF sensor causing lean fuel and misfire issue. The stock plug gap is sufficient even at fbo custom tune with a maxed out fuel system.m that It shouldn’t cause misfires. Hondata rides the lean border fairly tight. Any leaner causes misfires usually between 3500 and 5500. Rpm. One other issue might be if your running ethanol greater than 30 percent will cause enough fuel pressure drop causing the injector to be open too long or poor spray pattern due to low pressure. The proper way to check your afr is datalog it and compare it to your closed loop fuel chart and make sure it’s commanding the same fuel as your tune. You must compare it to your current tune. A dirty MAF will actually command less fuel and actual fuel will match the commander so you can’t go by those two readings alone. If you use octane boosters they can foul your plugs with a brow color. At that point throw them away. Under proper operating conditions misfires should read zero. Unless you have over 60k on the car it’s probably not ignition parts. My MAF got dirty cause I had a lot of road construction by me and the stones they crush and put under pavement made like a white powder. I only had 24000 miles at the time. you can clean a MAF sensor with NON chlorinated brake cleaner or buy sensor cleaner. Do not use anything that leaves a residue.

Nothing would ever make me think the car has a misfire other than the scan tool telling me. As posted a moment ago, I do not have any misfire codes. I am straight 93 octane with a custom tune.
 
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I have Hondata, now it's important to note... I am NOT getting any check engine lights and the car feels strong, I just randomly check with my Autel Scan tool. MY AFR seems pretty good according to data logs. 11.9 or so under WOT and 14.7 ish normally.

It makes sense about the fuel vs big turbo though...
If you don't have any CELs I believe you're fine, if I recall correctly a real misfire always throws a ton of codes and a CEL? I've never had one so I can't say for certain, sorry :( hopefully someone else can confirm/deny

You'll get gains out of a bigger turbo like jpierro said, but it's limited still by the fuel system. There isn't much danger to it as long as your AFRs are tuned properly. But perhaps you could get to the same levels with cheaper parts, i.e. a flex fuel system.
 

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Around what torque figures are 400WHP G25 setups seeing? At what level do you need to think about upgrading from the stock Type R clutch? No concern with the transmission holding these power levels?
They are keeping it at 400whp torque. Most people are using it as safety line fir engine longevity. Torque kills engines before hp. F your not abusive you can run 450 whp on stock clutch. Don’t expect to drag race with it on slicks. Torque is also what limits clutches. It seems somewhere between 430-460 you start slipping with just pure acceleration from low rpm. I make 394whl torque and have zero problems. I also don’t do no lift shifts or drop clutch launches. Drop clutch launches are slower on the street anyway. A time attack car with over 450 whl torque and 500whp took 2 season to break a 4th gear. That’s the only failure that I know of that I can trust how the car was driven. Dumping clutches destroys trannys. In cars theres no gaurentee but I tell you when I do my turbo I’m not going to do a clutch until I get fuel system done. The stock fuels system on pump can’t make a ton of torque.
 

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If you don't have any CELs I believe you're fine, if I recall correctly a real misfire always throws a ton of codes and a CEL? I've never had one so I can't say for certain, sorry :( hopefully someone else can confirm/deny

You'll get gains out of a bigger turbo like jpierro said, but it's limited still by the fuel system. There isn't much danger to it as long as your AFRs are tuned properly. But perhaps you could get to the same levels with cheaper parts, i.e. a flex fuel system.
This isn’t true about the cel I’m a 21 year diagnostic tech. It requires a certain amount of misfires in a row to cause a check engines light. I didn’t get a lean code or misfire codes or a cel. You need to understand how new cars have multiple levels of internal diagnostics and multi trip codes. They do this in case you get an occasional false reading you should NOT get misfires everytime. There not stored in memory Like codes. This means he’s getting them everytime he starts his car. That’s not normal. You can also get temporary codes each time you start. Those won’t set the cel but they stay stored in the ecu as well. You need a proper scanner and datalog to see exactly when your getting misfires and why. If your getting misfires under boost that’s dangerous! I’m not a fan of AUtel. I only use snap on, launch and vag com.

it’s a very common misconception about how cel lights work. It’s not that simple by any means. Many times codes will go away cause iu didn’t drive the car under the sane condion. Ford only dies evac leak test between 1/3 and 3/4 tank and you haveto have the car completely cooled off and to complete warm cycle then it will run the test. It often takes three test to even set the light. You could start your car 20 times and not meet Test criteria once.
I respect you KEFI I’m not trying to bash or disrespect you in any way.
 
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Jpierro79

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Nothing would ever make me think the car has a misfire other than the scan tool telling me. As posted a moment ago, I do not have any misfire codes. I am straight 93 octane with a custom tune.
Misfires aren’t always felt but still can happen for other reasons. The older 1.7 civic had an egr plate that used to clog up and not actually misfire but because the slightest change in engine performance the ecu detected it and threw misfire codes. This was on all cylinders. If it’s on start up only you might have an injector leaking down slightly and if it occurs only on one cylinder it will probably be that injector. The older v6 accord would throw constant misfire codes when the valve adjustment lash was loose after 100k. It didn’t actually misfire. It ran great. It wasn’t even that loud to think the valve lash was off. If it’s repeatable I’d at least try to look into it. Misfires themselves aren’t stored. They get stored in data when a code is thrown. Most good scanners will give you a data picture that you can look at when a code is stored. If your afr is good then it’s probably not MAF or MAP sensor issue. Can you log each cylinder live and record it?? I can run datalogs just like hondata but with all parameters on my snap on scanner. Your misfires may be clue to a different problem or your autel may not be reading it correctly. Autels range from a basic code reader to actually ecu programming when we see with a j2534 module. Try checking temporary codes too.
the best way to tell if you have a misfire counter screen watch that. Let me know I’d hate for you to have a problem and end up causing you issues. I’m more cautious than most only cause my experience. Feel free to message me if you feel there might be an issue. I hope this info helps you.

if we were talking about random knock readings I’d say forget about it.
 

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If you don't have any CELs I believe you're fine, if I recall correctly a real misfire always throws a ton of codes and a CEL? I've never had one so I can't say for certain, sorry :( hopefully someone else can confirm/deny

You'll get gains out of a bigger turbo like jpierro said, but it's limited still by the fuel system. There isn't much danger to it as long as your AFRs are tuned properly. But perhaps you could get to the same levels with cheaper parts, i.e. a flex fuel system.
This isn’t true about the cel I’m a 21 year diagnostic tech. It requires a certain amount of misfires in a row to cause a check engines light. I didn’t get a lean code or misfire codes or a cel. You need to understand how new cars have multiple levels of internal diagnostics and multi trip codes. They do this in case you get an occasional false reading you should NOT get misfires everytime. There not stored in memory Like codes. This means he’s getting them everytime he starts his car. That’s not normal. You can also get temporary codes each time you start. Those won’t set the cel but they stay stored in the ecu as well. You need a proper scanner and datalog to see exactly when your getting misfires and why. If your getting misfires under boost that’s dangerous! I’m not a fan of AUtel. I only use snap on, launch and vag com.

it’s a very common misconception about how cel lights work. It’s not that simple by any means. Many times codes will go away cause iu didn’t drive the car under the sane condion. Ford only dies evac leak test between 1/3 and 3/4 tank and you haveto have the car completely cooled off and to complete warm cycle then it will run the test. It often takes three test to even set the light. You could start your car 20 times and not meet Test criteria once.

Thank you for this information. Do you think the Autel is reading false positives? Realistically I do NOT feel a misfire at all. (No car stutter)

I will check new data logs, but my last read I was around 11.9 AFR at WOT and it hovered around there quite closely. What would an misfire look like on the AFR data log? The last time I checked the log on the scan tool it was a total of 1-2 mis fires for each cylinder "over the last 10 drive cycles" I have no knock though (aside from what's picked up during shifts)
 

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Thank you for this information. Do you think the Autel is reading false positives? Realistically I do NOT feel a misfire at all. (No car stutter)

I will check new data logs, but my last read I was around 11.9 AFR at WOT and it hovered around there quite closely. What would an misfire look like on the AFR data log? The last time I checked the log on the scan tool it was a total of 1-2 mis fires for each cylinder "over the last 10 drive cycles" I have no knock though (aside from what's picked up during shifts)
I’d check fuel pressure on start up. It’s possible cause it was on each cylinder that you might have poor initial spray pattern. Being it’s only 1-2 misfires each also leads me to believe its on start up.
there is a possibility condensation can build in intercoolers causing this phenomenon. It’s rare but Definitely not impossible. Hot High humidity conditions followed rapid cooling can cause it. If fuel presure is good at start up I wouldn’t worry. A damp air filter and or condensation on the MAF sensor will do this also. The car checks misfires immediately but not afr on start up. If it’s condensation it will throw off afr enough to read misfires based on how the engine is supposed to be performing. The ecu can actually calculate load on each cylinder as it fires if the rpm doesn’t increase enough by each fire it throws misfire. It can also be due to the spark plugs not having enough heat in them to hit operating range on initial start up and trying to drive it right away or rev it. Turbo cars run a cooler plug which can contribute to rough idle on start up also.
These cars are very cranky the first 30-60 seconds. If your getting in and driving right away that may be the other possibility of your misfire reading. It actually can’t fuel correctly till there is heat in the cylinders. Revving even lightly on start up may also cause this. always wait 60 seconds till you feel and hear the car engine smooth out.

your knocks is because a phenomenon called burst knock. It’s completely normal. Basically by closing the throttle plate then reopening that sudden rush of air causes both turbulent air and some lean conditions. it’s not dangerous because it won’t knock after you build boost. It will occur very commonly even if you are at 3000 rpm cruising and punch it. Every car does this. I tuned out a lot of burst knock to help turbo spool. There’s always going to be some.

hope this helps.

I have the moisture issue. I get 1 misfire on a cylinder or two. It happened after I got my mishimoto intercooler. Zero after that. If yours is like this don’t worry.
 
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I’d check fuel pressure on start up. It’s possible cause it was on each cylinder that you might have poor initial spray pattern. Being it’s only 1-2 misfires each also leads me to believe its on start up.
there is a possibility condensation can build in intercoolers causing this phenomenon. It’s rare but Definitely not impossible. Hot High humidity conditions followed rapid cooling can cause it. If fuel presure is good at start up I wouldn’t worry. A damp air filter and or condensation on the MAF sensor will do this also. The car checks misfires immediately but not afr on start up. If it’s condensation it will throw off afr enough to read misfires based on how the engine is supposed to be performing. The ecu can actually calculate load on each cylinder as it fires if the rpm doesn’t increase enough by each fire it throws misfire. It can also be due to the spark plugs not having enough heat in them to hit operating range on initial start up and trying to drive it right away or rev it. Turbo cars run a cooler plug which can contribute to rough idle on start up also.
These cars are very cranky the first 30-60 seconds. If your getting in and driving right away that may be the other possibility of your misfire reading. It actually can’t fuel correctly till there is heat in the cylinders. Revving even lightly on start up may also cause this. always wait 60 seconds till you feel and hear the car engine smooth out.

your knocks is because a phenomenon called burst knock. It’s completely normal. Basically by closing the throttle plate then reopening that sudden rush of air causes both turbulent air and some lean conditions. it’s not dangerous because it won’t knock after you build boost. It will occur very commonly even if you are at 3000 rpm cruising and punch it. Every car does this. I tuned out a lot of burst knock to help turbo spool. There’s always going to be some.

hope this helps.

I have the moisture issue. I get 1 misfire on a cylinder or two. It happened after I got my mishimoto intercooler. Zero after that. If yours is like this don’t worry.

This is probably the case then for me. I live in South Florida and it's always humid. (Today was 80% humidity)

I -always- let my car idle down after startup. The way you explained condensation really makes me believe that this is the case. I mean the MAF is basically exposed on the other side of my intake

It sounds like it's just engine startup misfire.


Legit right now it is 11:27 PM and 84 out all while it "Feels like 97 degrees" I cannot make this up
 
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This isn’t true about the cel I’m a 21 year diagnostic tech. It requires a certain amount of misfires in a row to cause a check engines light. I didn’t get a lean code or misfire codes or a cel. You need to understand how new cars have multiple levels of internal diagnostics and multi trip codes. They do this in case you get an occasional false reading you should NOT get misfires everytime. There not stored in memory Like codes. This means he’s getting them everytime he starts his car. That’s not normal. You can also get temporary codes each time you start. Those won’t set the cel but they stay stored in the ecu as well. You need a proper scanner and datalog to see exactly when your getting misfires and why. If your getting misfires under boost that’s dangerous! I’m not a fan of AUtel. I only use snap on, launch and vag com.

it’s a very common misconception about how cel lights work. It’s not that simple by any means. Many times codes will go away cause iu didn’t drive the car under the sane condion. Ford only dies evac leak test between 1/3 and 3/4 tank and you haveto have the car completely cooled off and to complete warm cycle then it will run the test. It often takes three test to even set the light. You could start your car 20 times and not meet Test criteria once.
I respect you KEFI I’m not trying to bash or disrespect you in any way.
No worries dude, I'm a sponge for knowledge. I said I was possibly wrong and I was. I know a lot of CELs work the way you described but I thought the misfire one was more serious and always sets a CEL. The more you know. I was hoping you'd be the one to answer me!
 


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This is probably the case then for me. I live in South Florida and it's always humid. (Today was 80% humidity)

Legit right now it is 11:27 PM and 84 out all while it "Feels like 97 degrees" I cannot make this up
I can't wait for winter time.. Florida robs us of power in the summer, no way around it ?
 

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This is probably the case then for me. I live in South Florida and it's always humid. (Today was 80% humidity)

I -always- let my car idle down after startup. The way you explained condensation really makes me believe that this is the case. I mean the MAF is basically exposed on the other side of my intake

It sounds like it's just engine startup misfire.


Legit right now it is 11:27 PM and 84 out all while it "Feels like 97 degrees" I cannot make this up
I live in Myrtle beach the humidity is stupid here. It’s 74 with 93 percent humidity I walk outside it feels like high 80s. Humidity when it doesn’t actually rain also hinders performance and engine cooling. It changes the burn rate of fuel. People have argued against it but bottom line I went faster in June when it was 88 out and slower in July when it was 78 when I had my gti. The 78 degree day even has a lower density altitude. Same car same fuel same tires same tune but increase of 4mph on the hotter day. It was like that for all three runs each day so I know it wasn’t some other variable. I’d always go to the track 1/4 tank with 93 octane and add 2 gallons of 100 octane. NHRA use density altitude to tune cause you can’t dyno 8000hp.. the guys that are better do what I call smelling the air. You can have the same density altitude but the moisture and other factors play in. I could tell that day in June it was going to be fast. I went 12.45 at 111 in car that was only supposed to have 338 crank hp. It weighed 3300 with me in it. I had the heaviest alll leather electric seat version of the gti. DOT Drag radials both days.
I’m rambling on. If any members have questions I can answer feel free to ask. I spread help because I feel it’s the best way to build community. I don’t mind it. I enjoy helping others.
 
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Humidity when it doesn’t actually rain also hinders performance and engine cooling. It changes the burn rate of fuel. People have argued against it
It's basic, irrefutable science. The extra water molecules absorb heat, changing the burn rate of the fuel and ultimately absorbing energy. Nobody can say that isn't true.

Correct me if I'm wrong since I have zero hands-on experience with methanol injection, but isn't the reason people mix methanol and water instead of spraying purely water is because methanol has it's own energy to burn too and pure water would just rob you of power in the end?

The actual effect may be negligible for most situations, but people don't look crazy at the guys removing 5lbs here, 5lbs there either. I'd believe there's a measurable effect on the K20C1.

The R is particularly sensitive and you'll feel the difference if you WOT this thing with any regularity. It is night and day between winter and summer, and I'm sure there's a difference with humidity too since I'll have some 'whoa where'd you come from, girl' moments in my R during the summer.

I’m rambling on. If any members have questions I can answer feel free to ask. I spread help because I feel it’s the best way to build community. I don’t mind it. I enjoy helping others.
I'd rather read a thousand of your posts before a single 'i beat this on the highway today' or 'look at my new wheels' posts. (not knocking those dudes either, cherish your cars, I'm just a fuckin nerd and like technical discussion more)

This thread is meant for that stuff, really. A megathread of tuning ideas, thoughts, and discussions. The parts list was just extra.
 
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Although the part you linked in particular isn't specific to the Type R, it is indeed a pain in the ass finding parts that are compatible with it for things like this. I'll work on a port injection section now that we've got some more parts. Thanks for the link!

Hell, I'd like to do methanol injection since I'm in Florida but I don't even know where to start. Guess it's time to go back down the rabbit hole.
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