K20c CTR vs Accord comparison

Hondata

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As you may well know the Accord 2 liter engine and Civic Type R engine share many similarities. For those of few of you that have not seen it, Jalopnik has a great comparison: https://jalopnik.com/heres-exactly-w...ivi-1820164645

So how do power, torque and drivability compare between the engines?

Above 2750 rpm the CTR has more power (up to 36 hp) and more torque (up to 32 lb -ft)
At 2000 rpm though the CTR has 120 lb-ft less torque. So, the turbo and response has clearly been specified for the kind of driving the Civic Type R was built for. The K20c Accord turbo can build 15-16 psi at 1500 rpm, which is great for the 10 AT but the compromise is the top end power.
accord_2.0_vs_ctr.jpg
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fk8mike

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could you say that you will be able to lower a bit this torque level(rpm)
 
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could you say that you will be able to lower a bit this torque level(rpm)
Are you asking if you can get more low end torque (under 3000 rpm) with the CTR? Not really, as the main reason for the difference is the turbo design.
 

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Are you asking if you can get more low end torque (under 3000 rpm) with the CTR? Not really, as the main reason for the difference is the turbo design.
I remember that when Honda launched the FK2 the journalist asked why mount a relatively big clasic turbo on a relatively small engine and extract 310hp. Why not a twin scroll? Honda said they will play with the valves and timing to get enough low end torque.
Well...I would have liked more....
I also own a Kia Optima SX 2.0T (Optima GT in Europe) with 260 lb-ft from 1350rpm. It feels a bit too much for its chassis but in a CTR it would have been great! :)
 

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As you may well know the Accord 2 liter engine and Civic Type R engine share many similarities. For those of few of you that have not seen it, Jalopnik has a great comparison: https://jalopnik.com/heres-exactly-w...ivi-1820164645

So how do power, torque and drivability compare between the engines?

Above 2750 rpm the CTR has more power (up to 36 hp) and more torque (up to 32 lb -ft)
At 2000 rpm though the CTR has 120 lb-ft less torque. So, the turbo and response has clearly been specified for the kind of driving the Civic Type R was built for. The K20c Accord turbo can build 15-16 psi at 1500 rpm, which is great for the 10 AT but the compromise is the top end power.
accord_2.0_vs_ctr.jpg
How do they compare once they're tuned with the stock setup?
 

EricDET

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I remember that when Honda launched the FK2 the journalist asked why mount a relatively big clasic turbo on a relatively small engine and extract 310hp. Why not a twin scroll? Honda said they will play with the valves and timing to get enough low end torque.
Well...I would have liked more....
I also own a Kia Optima SX 2.0T (Optima GT in Europe) with 260 lb-ft from 1350rpm. It feels a bit too much for its chassis but in a CTR it would have been great! :)
Turbo sizing is relative to application. Why would they focus on low end torque for a car that is made to run fast on high speed tracks? If you decrease the backend to help spool you will lose that airflow up top. Personally on an engine that Revs to 7K it spools just fine. Especially after tuning. 300ft/lbs by 2400 in a car that holds boost to 7K. Yes please.
 

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How do they compare once they're tuned with the stock setup?
The R will murder it. The Accord has no top end at all. oh and they really arent that similar at all when you open the article and read. here is the first paragraph
upload_2018-2-28_18-10-5.png
 

typemismatch

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I mean ... I can read the reviews and the specs, but I was hoping Hondata would chime in with their impressions from tuning the two platforms.
 

TheBigG

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Turbo sizing is relative to application. Why would they focus on low end torque for a car that is made to run fast on high speed tracks? If you decrease the backend to help spool you will lose that airflow up top. Personally on an engine that Revs to 7K it spools just fine. Especially after tuning. 300ft/lbs by 2400 in a car that holds boost to 7K. Yes please.
You got me wrong!
I'm happy with the power delivery but wat I was trying to say was that with a twin scroll turbo we could have had more low end torque without sacrifice top end power.

I was comparing with my Optima because that car has twin scroll turbo and the peak torque is at very low rpm, which make it very enjoyable in every gear/ rpm
 

EricDET

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I mean ... I can read the reviews and the specs, but I was hoping Hondata would chime in with their impressions from tuning the two platforms.
The R will murder it. The Accord has no top end at all. oh and they really arent that similar at all when you open the article and read. here is the first paragraph
upload_2018-2-28_18-10-5.png
Ktuner released the Stage 1 maps and Dynos for both platforms. You can see them on their site. And as Dallas has pointed out above. The Type R absolutely murders the Accord in all aspects. In the neighborhood of 80whp up top with a much wider torque spread. CTR makes over 300wtq from 2400-5800.

On the plus side a turbo upgrade on the accord should make a dramatic increase if the fuel can keep up.
 

EricDET

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You got me wrong!
I'm happy with the power delivery but wat I was trying to say was that with a twin scroll turbo we could have had more low end torque without sacrifice top end power.

I was comparing with my Optima because that car has twin scroll turbo and the peak torque is at very low rpm, which make it very enjoyable in every gear/ rpm
Twin scroll has one purpose. To spool faster. The design hampers flow up top. I can't think of a single Twin-scroll OEM setup that is not dead in the water above maybe 5800RPM.
 
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TheBigG

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Twin scroll has one purpose. To spool faster. The design hampers flow up top. I can' think of a single Twin-scroll OEM setup that is not dead in the water above maybe 5800RPM.
Ah! Ok! I thought you get the best of both worlds with twin scroll :rolleyes:
 

typemismatch

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It's a balancing act, twin scroll can spin up faster, so you can run a bigger compressor wheel/housing, but the additional mass slows response time, so you're back where you started, albeit with more power.
 

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Car manufacturers always fail to give the people exactly what they want. They get you most of the way there. They tease you with what they do offer you. I understand the heritage of the FK8, just like the next enthusiast, but to impress me, I want to see a true dual clutch, 10 speed in the CTR, with AWD. If you want to sell it to a market that would otherwise never even give it a second chance, that would do it. Take it a step further, and make it electronic, so you could split the power front to rear, with a 70/ 30 split 70% going to the rear. I would pay in the $40s for that, easily.
 
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