K control rise in cold weather (SI)

N.swifty

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Hello fellow civic owners, I have recently ran into an “issue” on my 2017 civic si. I’ve noticed that my k.control has been rising pretty significantly in the early morning as temperatures drop. It usually stays right at .49 and only goes up under several hard pulls to standard values of .55-.7 However recently with temps hitting 40-50 degrees in the morning my k.control has been instantly spiking. I let my engine warm up, then drive very gently keeping my boost at 0 or below for about 5 mins. At that point my engine would be up to operating temp for several minutes and I’d give it a little boost and my k.control will instantly rise to .55-.75 If I drive for a bit it will go down and I won’t have issues again. It only can be replicated first thing at night or morning when it’s still maybe semi cold.

So any thoughts on why this would cause K.control to rise. As far as I understand cold temps should help it so I’m at a loss.
Also it’s always filled with 93.

only things done to the car are
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fabrizzio71

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What gas are you using? Gas quality directly affects knock control. If you have access to E85 add up to a gallon when filling up and it will stay at .49 even under hard acceleration.
 
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N.swifty

N.swifty

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I’ve been using 93 from a local speedway, I’ve used the same station for years. It has high traffic flow and I’ve never had an issue. I thought maybe bad gas, but it’s just weird it doesn’t happen any time other than after a cold start. We’ll see after my next tank from somewhere else.

As far as E85 goes can I add that with no tune and it will run fine?
 

gtman

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Try topping off with a gallon of E85. See how knock control looks at that point. No special tune required.
 
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alxgravel

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You had a bad batch of gaz, I'm going on my 3th winter tuned and the motor love it . Always staying on 0.49 on good quality gaz. Maybe on some hard pull can go up .54/0.59. never saw .7 on my winter tuned. I know gaz company changing the fuel ingredients between those periods so maybe it was a wrong batch.

Did you try to push 3-4 psi on 6th gear it drop the knock very fast... If the knock don't go down it's the gaz for sure.
 
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fabrizzio71

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I’ve been using 93 from a local speedway, I’ve used the same station for years. It has high traffic flow and I’ve never had an issue. I thought maybe bad gas, but it’s just weird it doesn’t happen any time other than after a cold start. We’ll see after my next tank from somewhere else.

As far as E85 goes can I add that with no tune and it will run fine?
One gallon will keep the E content at or below 15% Ethanol which our cars are designed for. I almost exclusively use Sheetz now, even though it is not “top tier” bc they have E available and it’s super easy to combine E and 93. When I try other gas the knock control goes up, especially recently. With gas prices less people are using premium and the gas is often sitting for months. You can tell by the prices, some stations have premium priced a whole dollar higher than I pay at Sheetz bc the gas is literally from a month ago or more when prices were still jacked even worse.
 
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N.swifty

N.swifty

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Ok, that’s good to hear. Thank you both for the responses I’ll top off with a little E85 and check back later. I’ve driven the car for almost 2 years now but this is my first winter tuned so my first time monitoring it in the cold. I tuned it this summer and have been thrilled with it, it hits .50-.57ish after a couple hard pulls I only see .7 after a few miles of hard pulls. And the k.control wasn’t dropping fast with a little boost so you guys are probably right with the gas, it would take like 30mins to drop from .6ish back to .49. Thanks again guys I appreciate it, it was concerning me a bit the last few days.
 
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N.swifty

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So my issue hasn’t completely gone away. I’ve tried two different speedways and a shell. All 93, I also used a half gallon of e85 on my first fill and my third. My k.control has stayed steady at .49 for the most part even when pulling except after cold starts. I let my car warm up for 2-5 mins and the engine is usually almost up to temp, and I drive very carefully trying to use no boost for about 10 mins but yesterday I accidentally gave it 3 psi about 4 mins into driving and saw k.control rise to .75. After about 25 mins of driving and giving it a little boost in 5th and 6th I got it back down. This just doesn’t seem right to me, does this still sound like gas to anyone or something larger.
Just concerned since I hit a deer about a month ago and will be taking it to a body shop in a few months. Damage wasn’t too bad and I didn’t think anything internally was hurt, but this makes me question that.
 

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I’m beginning to lean towards it’s a fuel blend issue because my Sport also does this along with a few similar posts I’ve seen in the last few minutes of logging on. However I’ve not tried adding a gallon of E yet. I’m going to try that in the morning with the fill up on the way to work.
 

aznguy1992

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@N.swifty My issue is just like yours recently. I am quite confused as well. My car has always stayed at .49 no matter how many pulls I do or how I drive normally or how the weather is. But it would sky rocket out of the blue recently it just went from .49 to .59 and kept going to even 1.09. In California the weather is like 40-60 right now from morning to noon and night. The mid 90s and 100s weather just ended not too long ago and the car was doing fine. I am going to probably try topping off only 91 gas and add one gallon E85 even though I am on tsp stage 2 tune. If the knock control doesn't stabilize itself in the next month or so. Then there is definitely something wrong with the car and my best bet is probably going back to factory tune and then take it into the dealer since I paid extended warranty for the next 4 years and additional 60k miles for it today.
 


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N.swifty

N.swifty

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@aznguy1992 Hey man it’s been a bit since I made this post, but I will say my issue I definitely believe was fuel, I am currently running the pherable 1.5R tune, I think when I made this I was on TSP 1+, but besides the point, when I use either tune I find in the first 10 - 15 minutes it’s very easy to spike my k.control if it’s even relatively cold(below like 70F)Some days I start driving and all is good and once it’s up to temp even 2psi of boost will spike it up to .54. I have used e85 quite a bit and I’d advise using it whenever you’re having a lot of issues out of k.control. (I use it in the winter mostly) Although when I say that I mean a lot. I can have good gas and still spike to .54 or so in the beginning of my drive if it’s cold, but 30mins in it’ll lower even with some decent pulls and then raise when I pull wot. With bad gas I would see it continue to raise like you, I’d hit .6, .7, .8 no problem. I would say 1.0 and above is quite high, but that may be based off fuel quality. I’d try some different gas stations, I’ve had the best luck with speedway even though they aren’t known for quality like shell. I think if the car is running well it is mostly fuel issues, I like to think about the fact that running 87 octane on a stock tune was probably pulling a .7-1.0 k.control as well, we just weren’t observing it.

summary: fuel is most likely your issue try different stations and try a little e85, also I don’t know if you can only get 91 octane where you are, but if so you will NEED e85 (to not pull timing at least) these tunes are made for 93 octane so 91 will pull timing (aka raise k.control)
 

aznguy1992

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@aznguy1992 Hey man it’s been a bit since I made this post, but I will say my issue I definitely believe was fuel, I am currently running the pherable 1.5R tune, I think when I made this I was on TSP 1+, but besides the point, when I use either tune I find in the first 10 - 15 minutes it’s very easy to spike my k.control if it’s even relatively cold(below like 70F)Some days I start driving and all is good and once it’s up to temp even 2psi of boost will spike it up to .54. I have used e85 quite a bit and I’d advise using it whenever you’re having a lot of issues out of k.control. (I use it in the winter mostly) Although when I say that I mean a lot. I can have good gas and still spike to .54 or so in the beginning of my drive if it’s cold, but 30mins in it’ll lower even with some decent pulls and then raise when I pull wot. With bad gas I would see it continue to raise like you, I’d hit .6, .7, .8 no problem. I would say 1.0 and above is quite high, but that may be based off fuel quality. I’d try some different gas stations, I’ve had the best luck with speedway even though they aren’t known for quality like shell. I think if the car is running well it is mostly fuel issues, I like to think about the fact that running 87 octane on a stock tune was probably pulling a .7-1.0 k.control as well, we just weren’t observing it.

summary: fuel is most likely your issue try different stations and try a little e85, also I don’t know if you can only get 91 octane where you are, but if so you will NEED e85 (to not pull timing at least) these tunes are made for 93 octane so 91 will pull timing (aka raise k.control)
Yeah I had this issue only once but it resolved itself quickly. I didn’t need to do anything. I wonder if it was the flex fuel kit or just the system itself that fixed itself the first tim. I mean I thought the colder the temp it was the better it was for our cars. But when this issue occured it went from .49 to like .80ish at first. Right now it still is at .84 and hasn’t gone up. I’m hoping it slowly keeps going down everytime I put in a new set of fuel.
 
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N.swifty

N.swifty

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Yeah hopefully it’s just fuel, you can also try giving it just a little boost I find my k.control lowers fastest when I’m on flat ground around 2k rpm and I give it a steady 2-5psi for a bit.
 

alxgravel

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If you pull 3-4psi in 6th gear gentle and stay on a little bit ur knock should go down fast with good fuel and should not go under 91oct.
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