Interesting thoughts from my friend who was going to buy a Type R

NapalmEnema

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I too was interested in an STi before getting my CTR. I never drove one but got a lot of similar thoughts like Driveitlikeuboughtit. I always thought the Subies were such cool cars with the turbo and awd and racing heritage so they were near the top of my list but:

Poor gas mileage
Boring interior
Stiff ride not suited to a daily driver
Awd as mentioned in previous post does come with benefits but also at a cost
Head gasket leaks
But I think the biggest thing to me, and I don’t know the percentages, but the 2.5L engine is a dated design and some of the engines suffer from ring land failures which means engine rebuild. A coworker had an STi and steered me away from getting one. Forget what year. Maybe 2016?

I still like and respect the STis and would love to see what the next gen version looks like.
That's about where I sit - I mean how is this even a contest - Direct Injected 2.0 liter versus 2.5 from another generation that has known flaws and issues with blowing up.

Tough call I'm so on the fence here!



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tinyman392

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Yeah, and he tends to drift (get it) towards cars that aren't as tech happy as modern ones. He decries the auto rev matching feature on the CTR, despite it able to be turned off. For me, it;s a blessing and a curse - a blessing because I suck at doing it myself and it helps spare my clutch, and a curse because I've become so reliant on it I panic when it doesn't activate.
Well he's used to driving an FR car where you understeer into the turn then throttle oversteer it on the exit. You can't exactly do that with an FF car or AWD for that matter.

As for the rev matching issue you're having. If you want to guarantee that rev match kicks in down shift 2 gears (or more) instead of one and it'll kick it (with the exception of going into 1st gear). Obviously if you're well above 2000 RPM, then it'll kick regardless, but if you're on the edge near 2000 RPM, drop 2 gears and it'll kick, albeit slowly.
 

tinyman392

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I too was interested in an STi before getting my CTR. I never drove one but got a lot of similar thoughts like Driveitlikeuboughtit. I always thought the Subies were such cool cars with the turbo and awd and racing heritage so they were near the top of my list but:

Poor gas mileage
Boring interior
Stiff ride not suited to a daily driver
Awd as mentioned in previous post does come with benefits but also at a cost
Head gasket leaks
But I think the biggest thing to me, and I don’t know the percentages, but the 2.5L engine is a dated design and some of the engines suffer from ring land failures which means engine rebuild. A coworker had an STi and steered me away from getting one. Forget what year. Maybe 2016?

I still like and respect the STis and would love to see what the next gen version looks like.
When I was shopping for a new car a year and a half ago, Apple CarPlay was a must for me, so that immediately disqualified both the STi and BRZ/86. I wasn't able to find a Golf R in the area but was able to test drive a Focus RS. Focus RS' power off the line and immediate torque in the low gears is pretty nuts.

Few years later my friend offered to let me test drive his WRX (non-STi) and I gave it a try. I was too small :( Basically, I couldn't depress the clutch pedal all the way without laying straight out with my shoulders against the seat and back arched straight (not a sitting position). Suffice to say, I never would have been able to drive a WRX anyways :p I did learn at the autoshow last year that I fit into a BRZ/86 but not into a Golf R (so even if I were to find one I wouldn't be able to drive the thing :p ). Being short has its downsides I guess.
 

Dave B

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I am another one of those guys who feels a fast car is measured by driving on a track, not dragging from a stop. Never understood the 0-60 thrill when it is actually the 60-120 that means a lot more (unless you are NOT going to track your car) OTOH, if you want to have a fast drag car, buy a Camaro/Mustang etc. With the right motor, these are faster in a straight line anyway.
 

LSUFANDAN

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Before I purchased the Type R I had a 2009 STi. It was a great car. Never had any issues with it. I had it stage 2 tuned. I had all Perrin Parts(down pipe, exhaust, intake, stage 2 tune via Cobb). I don't regret trading up to the Type R so far. Only thing I didn't really like about the car was it seems like it takes more money to make power with those boxer engines. I thought about getting the Evo when I purchased the Sti but thought Subaru was better quality than Mitsubishi. I was always jealous how much power the Evo guys got for the amount of money they spent compared to the Sti. The styling on the STi is getting old also.
 

willskiGT

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I'm interested in the next gen STi. Just have to see what it can do - I'd much rather a 400 hp STi than a VAG anything.
Subaru fans have been saying this for ~17 years since the first WRX STI came to the states.

Here's a guess, the new one will have ... about 300hp, just like the last 5.

OTOH, if you want to have a fast drag car, buy a Camaro/Mustang etc. With the right motor, these are faster in a straight line anyway.
The ZL1 1LE and GT350R/500 are both track monsters as well.

Even the SS 1LE or Mustang GT will absolutely smoke our cars on track.
 

thatonedaveguy

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Subaru fans have been saying this for ~17 years since the first WRX STI came to the states.

Here's a guess, the new one will have ... about 300hp, just like the last 5.



The ZL1 1LE and GT350R/500 are both track monsters as well.

Even the SS 1LE or Mustang GT will absolutely smoke our cars on track.
The Camaro SS 1LE will post quicker track times than the Type R in general. A Mustang GT with performance pack 2 will lose to the Type R on nearly every track. The Shelby GT350 is a much closer car to the Type R for track performance and even then the Type R beats it on plenty of tracks. I doubt even a GT350R could beat the Type R's Nurburgring time.
 

willskiGT

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The Camaro SS 1LE will post quicker track times than the Type R in general. A Mustang GT with performance pack 2 will lose to the Type R on nearly every track. The Shelby GT350 is a much closer car to the Type R for track performance and even then the Type R beats it on plenty of tracks. I doubt even a GT350R could beat the Type R's Nurburgring time.
Haha that's not even close to accurate. PP2/GT350/GT350R are all faster than an SS 1LE. If you have drivers of equal skill, a GT PP2 will crush a Civic Type R, much less a GT350 or GT350R. A plain jane V-6 Camaro 1LE has about the same pace on track as a CTR.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a23319884/lightning-lap-times-historical-data/

2019 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE (auto trans) - 2:45.0
2018 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE (manual trans) - 2:45.7
2017 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 - 2:50.1
2016 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350R - 2:51.8
2018 Ford Mustang GT Performance Pack 2 - 2:53.8
2017 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE - 2:54.8
2018 Civic Type R - 3:03.9
2017 Camaro V-6 1LE - 3:04.0
 
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Noize

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The Camaro SS 1LE will post quicker track times than the Type R in general. A Mustang GT with performance pack 2 will lose to the Type R on nearly every track. The Shelby GT350 is a much closer car to the Type R for track performance and even then the Type R beats it on plenty of tracks. I doubt even a GT350R could beat the Type R's Nurburgring time.
Ridiculous. A PP2 GT will just destroy the CTR stock to stock with same driver- it's not even close. I have a good friend with a GT350, and my car is like a toy compared. You sound like a bad comedy Honda fanboy, so please quit posting before this shat shows up on some Mustang group and embarrasses us further.
 
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Zeffy94

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Ridiculous. A PP2 GT will just destroy the CTR stock to stock with same driver- it's not even close. I have a good friend with a GT350, and my car is like a toy compared. You sound like a bad comedy Honda fanboy, so please quit posting before this shat shows up on some Mustang group and embarrasses us further.
The PP2 GT is a BEAST. It’s not too expensive (not enough to jump to a 350/350R at least) but goddamn do the boys at Ford Performance know how to tune a Mustang. Also love how the Coyote sounds - one of my favorite V8 sounds.

The CTR is a fantastic performer for its class, but eventually FWD meets it’s limits. I’d argue the CTR is a more livable daily compared to a PP2 ‘Stang though :)
 

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The PP2 GT is a BEAST. It’s not too expensive (not enough to jump to a 350/350R at least) but goddamn do the boys at Ford Performance know how to tune a Mustang. Also love how the Coyote sounds - one of my favorite V8 sounds.

The CTR is a fantastic performer for its class, but eventually FWD meets it’s limits. I’d argue the CTR is a more livable daily compared to a PP2 ‘Stang though :)

Absolutely, there’s no way I’d buy a Mustang at this point in life. I have two kids.
 

Dave B

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The PP2 GT is a BEAST. It’s not too expensive (not enough to jump to a 350/350R at least) but goddamn do the boys at Ford Performance know how to tune a Mustang. Also love how the Coyote sounds - one of my favorite V8 sounds.

The CTR is a fantastic performer for its class, but eventually FWD meets it’s limits. I’d argue the CTR is a more livable daily compared to a PP2 ‘Stang though :)
The neat thing about the CTR is that it can carry track tires, jacks etc TO the track whereas the Camaro/Mustangs cannot without a trailer.

My original point is that worrying about drag launches on a front wheel drive car vs an all wheel or rear wheel drive car is pretty useless unless that is where you want to spend time in your car, drag racing minivans to the next stop light. For daily driving OR track use, it doesn't matter. BTW, I am coming from a C5 Z06 Corvette that sees a lot of track use. The CTR has better brakes, better seats, better aero,and a better shifter than the C5Z and can carry stuff. It just doesn't have an LS6 or better motor. So when the choice becomes the whole car experience, the CTR seems better as a dual purpose car (even though the C5Z06 is faster)
 

NapalmEnema

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Haha that's not even close to accurate. PP2/GT350/GT350R are all faster than an SS 1LE. If you have drivers of equal skill, a GT PP2 will crush a Civic Type R, much less a GT350 or GT350R. A plain jane V-6 Camaro 1LE has about the same pace on track as a CTR.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a23319884/lightning-lap-times-historical-data/

2019 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE (auto trans) - 2:45.0
2018 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE (manual trans) - 2:45.7
2017 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 - 2:50.1
2016 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350R - 2:51.8
2018 Ford Mustang GT Performance Pack 2 - 2:53.8
2017 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE - 2:54.8
2018 Civic Type R - 3:03.9
2017 Camaro V-6 1LE - 3:04.0
All really just depends on the track so these arguments are really hard to have a right or wrong - I think the Type R is a very quick car, fast around a track but obviously has it's limits. On a track with a few straightaways it will get pounded by anything with a big power advantage. On a track more about turns and limited run outs for a straightaway? Type R will hang with or beat most.

After a lifetime of driving performance cars of all stripes I put the Type R at highest levels - not because it's the fastest, but because of the drivers connection / total experience while driving it.

Fast is great, but connection to the road and machine is the best and I just haven't experienced anything that felt like the Type R, and I include my old EVO and other cars in that list.
 

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I had an 05 STi back in 05, and I could never buy a new one simply because it’s 99% the same motor for 17 years now. That’s insane. In 04 it made a very respectable 300hp. The mustang gt made 215 at the time. 17 years later the STi makes 310 and a new GT makes 460.

Insane, Subaru, insane.
 

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All really just depends on the track so these arguments are really hard to have a right or wrong - I think the Type R is a very quick car, fast around a track but obviously has it's limits. On a track with a few straightaways it will get pounded by anything with a big power advantage. On a track more about turns and limited run outs for a straightaway? Type R will hang with or beat most.

After a lifetime of driving performance cars of all stripes I put the Type R at highest levels - not because it's the fastest, but because of the drivers connection / total experience while driving it.

Fast is great, but connection to the road and machine is the best and I just haven't experienced anything that felt like the Type R, and I include my old EVO and other cars in that list.
Even on a track with fewer straights, a car like the GT PP2 has 305 section Pilot Sport Cup 2s (square setup) and generates 1.13G of lateral grip, braking from 70-0 is <140 feet. The Type R is around 1.02G; it has worse/smaller tires and as a result, slightly worse braking as well. Similarly, the SS 1LE corners at over 1.1G and brakes from 70-0 in 140 feet.

So it doesn't really depend on the circuit, those cars are always going to be faster than the CTR with drivers of equal skill. Better power/weight and superior cornering grip/braking = lower lap times regardless of layout. The GT PP2 does have overheating issues (similar to the CTR, but in the rear diff rather than the engine). The SS 1LE will lap all day without issues.

Now, maybe those cars are more inert than the Type R, but they're still faster. I would also note that I bought a CTR, not a GT PP2 or SS 1LE. I could have easily swung any of the 3 in terms of purchase price, but went with the CTR because it will have better resale, it's more practical in basically every way, has better visibility, and is still pretty damn quick for the hard driving I do (mostly mountain runs with a handful of track days per year).

That said, I still wouldn't claim that my CTR is faster around a circuit. Maybe autocross or something very tight, but otherwise, those other cars are certainly quicker. All of it is rendered moot if the driver in the other car is terribly slow and the guy in the CTR is competent. At my last track day, I was pointed-by by several C7 Z06s with the Z07 package. That car is probably 10s a lap faster than mine in the right hands, but they were slow and I am not.
 
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