Injen Intake for 10th Gen 2016 Civic Turbo: Huge Power Gains!

camhabib

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2015
Threads
9
Messages
286
Reaction score
170
Location
Boston, MA
Vehicle(s)
2010 Porsche 911, 2016 Honda Civic Touring
Country flag
That I know, but the air that is being put into the turbo only helps propel the turbine and mixes with the exhaust air which is already hot..hence why it has to go through an intercooler. If anything you'd rather have no piping and no restrictions at all do air can get directly to the turbo.

The air from this intake isn't going into the Intake manifold but instead mixing with the exhaust air...
Well the two airflows never mix - they're kept separate from each other. The reason for the intercooler is that the exhaust gases heat up the turbo, which the "cold air" then passes through and thus too becomes heated. The intercooler cools back down the "cold air," thus allowing the engine to run more efficiently. The intake is necessary as you want to select where the air is coming from, as grabbing it after its passed through the radiators and the engine block would substantially increase its temperature. It also allows for the placement of flow sensors, and air filters, to prevent debris and liquid from entering into the engine.
Sponsored

 

2slo4u

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2015
Threads
12
Messages
325
Reaction score
431
Location
Puyalup
Vehicle(s)
Civic, FRS
Vehicle Showcase
1
Well the two airflows never mix - they're kept separate from each other. The reason for the intercooler is that the exhaust gases heat up the turbo, which the "cold air" then passes through and thus too becomes heated. The intercooler cools back down the "cold air," thus allowing the engine to run more efficiently. The intake is necessary as you want to select where the air is coming from, as grabbing it after its passed through the radiators and the engine block would substantially increase its temperature. It also allows for the placement of flow sensors, and air filters, to prevent debris and liquid from entering into the engine.
The air that is being pulled into the turbo by the cold air intake is what...1 or 2 degrees colder than the OEM set up? and because the turbo itself will be hundreds for degrees and it is usually cast iron and right next to the turbo outlet..I don't see how it'd make a difference..there's a reason why even professional racers run no filter or piping at all. I would rather change the charge piping for better airflow with a material to keep the cold air that's been through the intercooler in and the engine heat out. I've had many turbod cars and I've felt the charge piping on the exhaust side many times..always hot. an intake that cools it a few degrees is like throwing an ice chip into a fire.
based on the design..why not change the whole intake unit to the turbo..why leave the plastic?
 
OP
OP
procivic

procivic

Elite Sponsor
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Threads
123
Messages
1,524
Reaction score
1,136
Location
Ventura, California
Website
www.procivic.com
Vehicle(s)
2017 Civic Si Sedan, Others
Country flag
I probably should have spent more time explaining the dyno chart on my initial post. I didn't realize there would be a lot of misunderstanding about the claimed power gains and what is actually going on here with the CVT transmission and the factory ECU. Let me clear some things up and address everyone's concerns:

1. First off, we did not perform this dyno ourselves. Injen made this product and also did the dyno runs. We were not there and had nothing to do with it. That said, I think the graph represents exactly what you get with the stock ECU and CVT behavior after installing the intake. If Injen did fabricate the whole thing, it would be a first from what I know. From my experience, they do not even exaggerate their power gains - they use the average gains from all their testing sessions. Take the previous gen 2012 to 2015 EX for example, they only claim about 5 hp and 4 ft-lb of torque on it!

2. If the chart is to be believed, then there are clearly great power gains. When looking at a dyno chart, here is the question to ask yourself: "at each RPM, under full load how much more power am I making?" That is the question to ask, and that is what this chart answers. What you are looking for is the total area under the power and torque curves gained. I posted some follow-up pictures below to clarify this. Simply taking one peak # does not tell the whole story, which is why we posted the dyno chart here and on our website. Yes, if you just read the peak gain of +29hp and +25tq and don't look at the chart, you will have the wrong idea about the performance improvements of the intake. Notice that the peak power of about 170 whp is reached at a lower RPM than with the 100% stock car. This is due to the factory behavior of the ECU and CVT, according to the actual dyno operator at Injen. Even if you were to shift over the red graphs to they laid exactly on top of the blue ones, there would still be great gains, especially with the torque. However, shifting the graph does not actually represent how the car's behavior changed after the intake was installed, so Injen presented the graph as is. Also notice the air/fuel ratios are consistent as well, so this is not a case where the car is running unsafely lean and gaining power that way.

Honda Civic 10th gen Injen Intake for 10th Gen 2016 Civic Turbo: Huge Power Gains! 2016-civic-turbo-injen-hp-gains


Honda Civic 10th gen Injen Intake for 10th Gen 2016 Civic Turbo: Huge Power Gains! 2016-civic-turbo-injen-tq-gains


3. The Curly Qs and weird behavior at higher RPMs are due to the CVT transmission. Same reason why you never hit the factory redline of 6500 RPM. I confirmed this directly with Injen. CVTs are designed to hold the engine at the RPM where it will produce maximum power. It seems that this car may sense the correct RPM based on maximum torque output. This is a question for Hondata or a Honda engineer though, as it deals with the inner-workings of the ECU and CVT.

4. The graphs are not shifted or manipulated. Both hp and torque curves meet at 5250 RPMs as is required by the formula for horsepower from torque (see our horsepower vs torque article for a lengthy explanation). We spoke with the actual person who conducted the dyno tests for Injen, and it turns out they did about 8 runs 100% stock and with another 8 or so with the intake. They retested on multiple cars. This person did confirm the CVT and factory ECU behavior is quite inconsistent. However, the intake showed consistent gains when compared to ALL baseline runs, although the hp gain amount did vary. The total range of these variances was between about +22hp and +40hp. They also brought in multiple cars and re-tested. Furthermore, they did not change the fuel (87 octane was used) or "feed in" any cold air. So, the real question is, "Is it fair to claim +29hp?". Given this info, I believe it is, although in this kind of scenario I really would want people to review the dyno chart than just have one single # in their mind. Again, single #s just don't tell the whole story of what is going on here.

The manual transmission version of the 1.5L Civic Turbo motor should be out soon, and Injen will supply more dyno charts of that as well. I would also love to see anyone else upload their own dyno comparisons of this intake. Based on what Injen told us, they did everything they could to produce an accurate representation of the gains of this intake despite the variability on the factory CVT car. If someone does perform their own dyno, make sure to do at least 5 baseline runs and 5 after install runs. In addition, make sure traction control is set off and the car is in the same drive mode each time (probably Sport Mode).

I really hope this helps explain things to anyone confused. I'll try to answer any remaining questions I can!
 

TyBu

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Threads
1
Messages
104
Reaction score
35
Location
San Diego
Vehicle(s)
2016 Civic Touring
Question. Is horsepower largely an attempt to guesstimate the amount of torque being applied to the wheels when one only knows the amount of torque being generated by the engine? I know that theoretically horsepower is a measure of work done over time, but....I guess the relevance of RPMS is a little lost on me if the transmission is taken out of the picture. I know horsepower is largely irrelevant to the driver if you're measuring wheel torque, but...to rephrase my question:

Is an engine generating X amount of torque at 1500RPM, vs an engine generating X amount of torque at 3000RPM sending the same amount of power to the transmission, but the transmission at 3000RPM is just using it more efficiently as far as acceleration is concerned? Since torque is a measure of power, it seems like the answer would have to be yes.

edit: Whoops. no. Honestly, I just don't get it. Torque is explicitly not a measurement of power, but I don't understand how it isn't if it the force is consistently applied.
 
Last edited:


haztorks

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Threads
1
Messages
137
Reaction score
81
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2016 MSM EX-T
Dynoing a CVT makes my head spin.

Maybe some timed runs with a g-meter, or at the track, would be a better display of the real-world gains.
 

Mllcb42

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Threads
0
Messages
46
Reaction score
11
Location
Lancaster, Ca
Vehicle(s)
Civic Touring
The colder the air, the higher the density per volume, meaning for every liter of air sucked / pushed in, the engine is able to produce more power from that (in theory at least). Cooler air also reduces the chances of knocking, and relieves some of the stress on the cooling systems for both the turbo and engine itself. Cars perform better on cooler days than hotter days for these reasons. The opposite is true for exhaust systems, where increasing the size of the pipes can often have negative effects on performance, contrary to what common sense may dictate.

That said, plastic is typically a better insulator than ferrous metal, meaning that this company has actually a worse performing design in that respect.
There doesn't appear to be anything ferrous in the injen intake, its all 6061 aluminum... Which is still a poor thermal insulator
 

RallyeRed

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Threads
19
Messages
459
Reaction score
274
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2016 Honda Civic Touring
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
Do they plan on making a short ram only version? Not interested in a CAI, too much risk of hydrolock.
 

RallyeRed

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Threads
19
Messages
459
Reaction score
274
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2016 Honda Civic Touring
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
Well sure, but I'm guessing it also costs more to include the cold air intake pipe. If it can switch to become a short ram, then just take out the cold air piping, charge 80 dollar less, and sell the short ram on it's own. That's what I'm waiting for. No reason to buy a cold air intake if I'm only going to be using it as a short ram.
 


Joined
Feb 17, 2016
Threads
0
Messages
19
Reaction score
13
Location
SoCal
Vehicle(s)
jeep xj, mk6 gti, G20
Very True, I guess they're targeting both necessities at once. But I agree that extra unnecessary expense could go towards something else on the car :)
 
OP
OP
procivic

procivic

Elite Sponsor
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Threads
123
Messages
1,524
Reaction score
1,136
Location
Ventura, California
Website
www.procivic.com
Vehicle(s)
2017 Civic Si Sedan, Others
Country flag
Well sure, but I'm guessing it also costs more to include the cold air intake pipe. If it can switch to become a short ram, then just take out the cold air piping, charge 80 dollar less, and sell the short ram on it's own. That's what I'm waiting for. No reason to buy a cold air intake if I'm only going to be using it as a short ram.
Yes Injen will be releasing a short ram that costs less. I don't think the power gains will be quite as good, but given this is a turbo car, like others mentioned, the cold air is not quite as important since it goes through the intercooler anyways.
 
OP
OP
procivic

procivic

Elite Sponsor
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Threads
123
Messages
1,524
Reaction score
1,136
Location
Ventura, California
Website
www.procivic.com
Vehicle(s)
2017 Civic Si Sedan, Others
Country flag
Question. Is horsepower largely an attempt to guesstimate the amount of torque being applied to the wheels when one only knows the amount of torque being generated by the engine? I know that theoretically horsepower is a measure of work done over time, but....I guess the relevance of RPMS is a little lost on me if the transmission is taken out of the picture. I know horsepower is largely irrelevant to the driver if you're measuring wheel torque, but...to rephrase my question:

Is an engine generating X amount of torque at 1500RPM, vs an engine generating X amount of torque at 3000RPM sending the same amount of power to the transmission, but the transmission at 3000RPM is just using it more efficiently as far as acceleration is concerned? Since torque is a measure of power, it seems like the answer would have to be yes.

edit: Whoops. no. Honestly, I just don't get it. Torque is explicitly not a measurement of power, but I don't understand how it isn't if it the force is consistently applied.
Good questions. This is not common sense stuff. Horsepower is basically a measure of the energy output of the car at a certain RPM. All you need to calculate horsepower is a simple formula based on the current torque amount the engine is outputting. The formula is:

horsepower = torque * rpm / 5252
.


So in your analogy where one engine is generating X torque @ 1500 RPM and a 2nd engine is generating X torque @ 3000 RPM, the 2nd engine is outputting TWICE the horsepower of the first engine. Why exactly is that? It is because the 2nd engine's rate of applying X torque is twice as fast. In other words, the 2nd engine is still applying the same instantaneous force of X torque as the 1st engine, but the 2nd engine is doing it faster. In physics, the definition of Power is Work divided by Time. In this case, we're talking about rotation Work done by the X torque force each engine is producing. Think of lifting weights at the gym. If you bench press 100 lbs 10 times in 20 seconds, and your friend is benching 100 lbs 10 times in 10 seconds, who is more powerful? Your friend is, twice as much to be exact, assuming he isn't cheating and only going half way :)

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
procivic

procivic

Elite Sponsor
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Threads
123
Messages
1,524
Reaction score
1,136
Location
Ventura, California
Website
www.procivic.com
Vehicle(s)
2017 Civic Si Sedan, Others
Country flag
Here is a good video that shows why when dyno'ing a CVT transmission you can get weird data points (Curly Q's) near redline:



Notice the car almost settles at 5500 RPMs, but then surges before it "shifts". In reality, it is not shifting, just changing the CVT ratios quickly to simulate a shift.
 

somarilnos

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Threads
7
Messages
182
Reaction score
94
Location
Metrowest Massachusetts
Vehicle(s)
2016 Honda Civic EX-T
Country flag
Any hope of this becoming available for us folks in states that require a CARB EO#? Or is that too much red tape to cut through?
Sponsored

 


 


Top