Info on Fuel DILUTION/LSPI/Heat as it relates to oil changes.

[sonicBOOMgray]

"Fuel Dilution has caused viscosity to decrease SIGNIFICANTLY." (see link below) Translation: Oil looses viscosity and there goes your protection. (think: more wear)! Don't be alarmed (or fooled), there is no problem here but just something to observe if you do short tips and have experienced fuel dilution (think: lots of short trips where you stop before the engine gets time to warm up) in other cars. This might not mean anything at all or perhaps we adjust how frequently we change oils based on our driving habits. Here I am assuming the oil Honda or specifically, your dealer, uses is adequate (nothing beats free right) but you could easily bring your own oil so it could apply to everyone. I'm not saying this applies to our Civics cause it could be specific to this car's driving habits like short trips, lugging or excessive idling etc but it's worth a look for oil changes beyond our freebies.

Separate issue but another issue that applies to turbo engines in Subaru WRXs is intake and valve deposits cause by Turbo applications. They call it LSPI (google or WIKI it) To combat this, they looked at the oil and apparently it's calcium in the oil that is bad for turbo application from other manufacturers(think: Subaru) and so Mobil 1 changed formulations for our 0w-20 oils to reduce Calcium. For me, after the free oil changes are up, I might just pick oil with the right properties(like this Mobil 1 0w-20 AFE or others) to fight certain tendencies the 1.5T might have or just run shorter oil intervals.

I'm reading up on it over at the Billy Bob website, come read with me!

https://tinyurl.com/y8sxlhot


This is for after the free ones cause I only got 200 miles on mine. For us with free changes, this could simply mean going in at maybe 3k to take out the oil(excluding the FF or Factory or virgin oil, stay on the reminder system on your dash for those, imo). as well as the fuel dilution thang in the link above and I am investigating it for our Civics. wish me luck.

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[un hombre]

Don't be alarmed (or fooled), there is no problem here but just something to observe if you do short tips and have experience fuel dilution in other cars. This might not mean anything at all or perhaps we adjust how frequently we change oils based on our driving habits. For me, after the free oil changes are up, I might just pick oil with the right properties to fight certain tendencies the 1.5T might have or just run shorter oil intervals.

I'm not saying this applies to our Civics cause it could be specific to this car's driving habits like short trips, lugging or excessive idling etc but it's worth a look. for oil changes beyond our freebies. Here I am assuming the oil Honda or specifically, your dealer, uses is adequate (nothing beats free right) but you could easily bring your own oil so it applies to everyone. I'm reading up on it over at the Billy Bob website, come read with me. "Fuel Dilution has caused viscosity to decrease SIGNIFICANTLY." Translation: Oil looses viscosity and there goes your protection. (think: more wear)!

https://tinyurl.com/y8sxlhot


This is for after the free ones cause I only got 200 miles on mine. For us with free changes, this could simply mean going in at maybe 3k to take out the oil(excluding the FF or Factory or virgin oil, stay on the reminder system on your dash for those, imo). Separate issue but apparently it's calcium in the oil that is bad for turbo application from other manufacturers(think: Subaru) as well as the fuel dilution thang in the link above and I am investigating it for our Civics. wish me luck.

There is nothing to panic about.

Look at the results - even though the viscosity has changed and fuel dilution was acknowledged, no excessive wear was acknowledged. Keep in mind that the first result is on the brake-in oil.

Having said that, if you want to counter act the fuel dilution, just put on a grade thicker oil, like 0w30 or 5w30 oil. If this gets diluted, you will end up having 0w20

I am sure Honda have done their homework and no need to panic... Just yet...

 

[sonicBOOMgray]

There is nothing to panic about.

Look at the results - even though the viscosity has changed and fuel dilution was acknowledged, no excessive wear was acknowledged. Keep in mind that the first result is on the brake-in oil.

Having said that, if you want to counter act the fuel dilution, just put on a grade thicker oil, like 0w30 or 5w30 oil. If this gets diluted, you will end up having 0w20

I am sure Honda have done their homework and no need to panic... Just yet...

That's what I am thinking about down hure in SW, it is going to be super hot and so I don't want to cook the turbo, meaning deposits on the intake valves. I know Mobil 1 0w-20 AFE has recently reduced Calcium, atleast to combat LSPI in Subaru designed turbo engines but Honda is on another level. Aside from LSPI and Fuel Dilution, I was using Quaker state 10w-30 in my Extreme heat or SEVERE climate cause the NOACK was low meaning it fights the heat generated in turbo or even non-turbo engines like my prev SC300! I used the 10w-30 in my Lexus Sc300 and it transformed the throttle on it so tempted to try atleast the QS 5w-30 cause I'm sure the turbo generates lots of heat even if it is a Honda designed turbo and not a Subie. For LSPI, I'm looking into the M1 AFE 0w-20.

 

[un hombre]

That's what I am thinking about down hure in SW, it is going to be super hot and so I don't want to cook the turbo, meaning deposits on the intake valves. I know Mobil 1 0w-20 AFE has recently reduced Calcium, atleast to combat LSPI in Subaru designed turbo engines but Honda is on another level. Aside from LSPI and Fuel Dilution, I was using Quaker state 10w-30 in my Extreme heat or SEVERE climate cause the NOACK was low meaning it fights the heat generated in turbo or even non-turbo engines like my prev SC300! I used the 10w-30 in my Lexus Sc300 and it transformed the throttle on it so tempted to try atleast the QS 5w-30 cause I'm sure the turbo generates lots of heat even if it is a Honda designed turbo and not a Subie. For LSPI, I'm looking into the M1 AFE 0w-20.

I intend to use Fuchs Titan Pro Race S 5w-30, full ester/PAO base, much exceeds Honda recommendations. Not just because I am worried about the dilution, but I intend to rev it hard when I have a bit of "fun time" so I need to protect the engine.

 

[sonicBOOMgray]

I intend to use Fuchs Titan Pro Race S 5w-30, full ester/PAO base, much exceeds Honda recommendations. Not just because I am worried about the dilution, but I intend to rev it hard when I have a bit of "fun time" so I need to protect the engine.

Good call on using high quality oil. That Quaker State has a real low NOACK which is good for turbo apps. The question is, do I go 0w-20 or move up to 5w-30. The warranty period is going to be heck.

 

[un hombre]

Good call on using high quality oil. That Quaker State has a real low NOACK which is good for turbo apps. The question is, do I go 0w-20 or move up to 5w-30. The warranty period is going to be heck.

It depends if you want to keep the car after warranty expires or not. If American manual allows only for 0w-20, you want to keep the car after warranty and you want to have peace of mind during and after warranty period, then I'd say do the following. During warranty use highest possible quality 0w-20 and after warranty switch to some good 0/5w-30.

If you want to keep the car only during warranty period, don't worry about the oil. You will not damage the car during those years with the stock oil.

 

[sonicBOOMgray]

It depends if you want to keep the car after warranty expires or not. If American manual allows only for 0w-20, you want to keep the car after warranty and you want to have peace of mind during and after warranty period, then I'd say do the following. During warranty use highest possible quality 0w-20 and after warranty switch to some good 0/5w-30.

If you want to keep the car only during warranty period, don't worry about the oil. You will not damage the car during those years with the stock oil.

The thing is, the 10w-30s have NOACK in the 5.0s while the 5w-30 have NOACK volatility measuring in the 10s. big difference. next thing is reduce Calcium which I have to see if QS Ultimate Durability uses a lot of CA.

 

[un hombre]

The thing is, the 10w-30s have NOACK in the 5.0s while the 5w-30 have NOACK volatility measuring in the 10s. big difference. next thing is reduce Calcium which I have to see if QS Ultimate Durability uses a lot of CA.

Don't be overthinking it, you are not a scientist.

Polish Honda community praises Fuchs, millers and Motu oils. In fact, it has been used by them for many Civic generations and those hondas are still going strong!

Those are top European oils, Fuchs Titan pro s series, Motul 300v series and millers nano series. Those are "race" oils for strained engines but only one meets Honda's spec, the Fuchs.
Whatever full synthetic you choose will be better from stock Honda oil.

 

[hawk02]

Stick with 0w20 and use the best REAL synthetic you can get,,,,,,,Amsoil SS, Motul or RedLine.

 

[sonicBOOMgray]

Stick with 0w20 and use the best REAL synthetic you can get,,,,,,,Amsoil SS, Motul or RedLine.

What statistics are you evaluating though? SAPS? NOACK? cst @ 100? Flash Point? Viscosity Index? Quaker Flake 0w-20 is available at Walmart and is probably light years better than Honda 0w-20. Are you saying that your choices do all of the above better? I know one oil that does NOACK better or as good as your choices and is available at Walmart.

 

[parshisa]

So what's the scientific solution, folks? Should we stay away from high Ca applications? Go up on the weight? Oh my, I knew nothing about oil these things before I got the car...I should've baught me a Camry. Lol

Just kidding. I wonder if anyone here in the forum has those EX-T sedan with 40+K on the clock. Wonder how their cars are doing.. don't be quite folks, share your experience!!

 

[sonicBOOMgray]

So what's the scientific solution, folks? Should we stay away from high Ca applications? Go up on the weight? Oh my, I knew nothing about oil these things before I got the car...I should've baught me a Camry. Lol

Just kidding. I wonder if anyone here in the forum has those EX-T sedan with 40+K on the clock. Wonder how their cars are doing.. don't be quite folks, share your experience!!

Gotta find out which formulations catered to and are formulated with less CA for this specific purpose in mind. I think Mobil 1 changed theirs for low CA? Gotta check Quaker State, Pennzoil and maybe Castrol oils now. Also, how does the Honda branded oil stack up, surely their oils have low CA, right?

 

[parshisa]

Gotta find out which formulations catered to and are formulated with less CA for this specific purpose in mind. I think Mobil 1 changed theirs for low CA? Gotta check Quaker State, Pennzoil and maybe Castrol oils now. Also, how does the Honda branded oil stack up, surely their oils have low CA, right?

So here's the deal: my buddy has a shop that services primarily GTR's and pretty much any other tuned/modded car. And all the use there when it comes to oil change - Amsoil SS which is loaded with Ca (3000+ ppm). And trust me, they beat the crap out of their GTR's - heavy pulls from 0 to 60 in less than 3sec. LSPI? Never heard of it.
Here's another deal: my factory fill UOA showed close to 2K in Ca, which supposedly is the threshold for Ca content (it doesn't get any worse with higher Ca as per recent research). Soooo, HONDA intentionally fill the car with the oil that is HIGH in Ca. Does it mean that they are confident that the way they tuned the timing etc is good for fighting LSPI? I personally think it does. Engine is running super reach all the time, which allows to keep combustion chamber temperature under control, and it doesn't let the LSPI event to occur. Downside - oil gets diluted. That's my theory and understanding of the issue. With that said, it doesn't really matter how detergent components are there in the oil. I think what really matters is the base and up used, it's ability to hold up to high temps and nut shear/break down under this conditions. M1 EP/AMS are probably two best oils out there (based on VOA they are both group IVoil with some esters). NOTE: I'm not a chemist (mechanical engineer working in oil and gas) and all stated above is just my best guess.

 

[sonicBOOMgray]

So here's the deal: I think what really matters is the base and up used, it's ability to hold up to high temps and nut shear/break down under this conditions. M1 EP/AMS are probably two best oils out there (based on VOA they are both group IVoil with some esters). NOTE: I'm not a chemist (mechanical engineer working in oil and gas) and all stated above is just my best guess.

How about NOACK value as an indicator of how well an oil can hold up to high temps? Quaker State oils have done well in that 540RAT test but I don't think its base oil is GRP IV with GRP V esters?

 

[parshisa]

How about NOACK value as an indicator of how well an oil can hold up to high temps? Quaker State oils have done well in that 540RAT test but I don't think its base oil is GRP IV with GRP V esters?

Ams Noack 0w20 is pretty high - 10%. 0w30 a little lower - 8%. The lowest you can get is 5w30 - near to 5%. But I don't really know if it matters that much. I'm not really concerned about volatility, what really concerns me is a loss of viscosity. That's why I'm considering going higher weight. Plus Texas heat and oil gets reaaaaly thin

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