If you could do it all over again: would you buy another Honda?

[Hmm888]

I stumbled upon this website because I am in the market for a good quality car to replace my 2005 Mazda3. I am considering the Honda Civic. My Mazda3 is the first car I have ever owned that had very little maintenance costs. It was made in Japan. Gas mileage was never good but I also don't drive much either. My Mazda has a puny 60,000 miles on it at the moment. The car needs some minor repairs and it's solely a point A to B car. My wife has a newer 2014 Mazda3 which I am not impressed at all about. Mazda doesn't care about much what the consumer or driver wants. They've lagged many many generations behind in terms of entertainment tech. I also don't like the way the new Mazdas drive and they are rather costly now. They come standard with with large 17, 18 inch tires. The car's blind spots are troublesome for me whenever I take it out for drive.

I used to have a 1989 Honda Civic, brand new. It was a genuine lemon. I also used to work in the service department for a few years at a Honda dealership. My experience with Honda cars has not been very good. In particular, I've had chronic issues with Honda's transmission and brakes. Over the years, I have seen, experienced and known many people who complain the most about two things with Honda vehicles: Honda brakes and Honda transmissions. I talked several months back to old friends and colleagues who tell me these two issues are still present.

I would like to consider getting a 2017 Honda Civic CVT. I am getting up there in age and driving a manual in the city is not for me. I like what the Civic has to offer. However, I am worried about the longevity and the lifecycle of the rotors. it's really tricky business selling rebuilt/remanufactured transmissions. That's what Honda now does, that's what they did then. My Japanese trained mechanic (now retired) hated those rebuilt tranny's from Honda, but he said when he retired, they have improved but still not "good". It goes without saying transmissions are expensive but once you replace them, they seem to have a short life cycle and the vehicle becomes a money pit. When I worked for Honda, people would regularly complain about pulsating brakes and other brake issues with their Honda.

With my Mazda3, the front rotors and pads have lasted me to 50K. I still have original brakes in the rear. Talk about reliability. Aside from routine maintenance such as fluid changes, the odd engine mount which was under $100 outside of warranty, my Mazda was very low on maintenance.

So in part, my question to all you Honda owners here is would you buy another Honda, has it been reliable for you and should the CVT transmission be concern for someone who plans to keep their car a long time and who wants to have minimal maintenance costs?

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[xjoshuax89]

Not too sure about CVT yet as my '16 Civic is my first experience with CVT but I have had no issues with any of my previous Hondas.

These are all my previous Hondas.

2011 Honda CR-V SE AWD (still using)
2008 Honda Pilot EX AWD (sold in 2012)
2005 Honda Accord LX (sold in 2012)
2003 Honda CR-V LX AWD (sold in 2011)

I'm going to be selling my current '16 Civic Sedan to my brother and grabbing the '17 Civic Hatch mid summer next year unless something drastic occurs.

 

[Newflyer3]

My family has owned Hondas all our lives and now with the products they're pushing out I would certainly buy more. You'll have to give the CVT a little more time and it also depends on the engine you choose since the 2.0L tranny is sourced from Japan and the 1.5L tranny is a derivative of the Accord's sourced from the USA. However, there have been no long term issues reported with CVTs used in Hybrid models in the mid 2000s, or I4 vehicles this decade. If you have a 5AT in a V6 Honda from the early 2000s good luck... Brake jobs, don't really care since 50-60k is a lot anyway and a full brake job is reasonably easy DIY and runs around $300 dealer serviced which by that time I don't give a shit about. A services run up to $50 and B services run up to $200. Stuff like air filters/tire rotations are easy of course anyway.

One thing I like about Hondas is that interior and exterior design elements tend to age well. Fonts used on buttons look good after 10 years unlike Fords which are narrow and seem to look like hell after year 5. Ergonomics are top notch too, you sit in a Honda and you know where everything is. They also know when to use a curve or a straight edge... I worked at an FCA dealer and a lot of it was similar but there's weird shit like how audio controls are on the back on the steering wheel and how wipers are controlled on the left stalk on RAM but on a right stalk with most modern models like GC/300/Charger.

One thing I can attest though is that the car will last as long as you take care of it. My mom has a 2007 CR-V. It is a cesspool of neglect because my parent's don't care and some of the components have excessive wear or have failed prematurely on that principle. It has 115k kms on it, the starter motor needed to be replaced at 110k due to rapid and frequent starts. The Takata airbag thing hasn't been done and my mother is completely ignorant that the problem exists frankly. The rear chrome trim on the tailgate is a breeding ground of rust due to infrequent washing and accumulation of environmental fallout, driver seat has excessive wear, the interior is NEVER cleaned, the exterior gets a half assed soap and rinse wash once a month by my dad, the hazard switch doesn't illuminate at night, dents and scratches galore. I think it needs a full brake job now or a bleed at least since the pedal is squishy as fuck at 115k. It has left my mom stranded a couple times (once due to a dead battery and another because of the starter) where I've had to inconvenience myself to rescue her and it pisses me off. 5AT and the motor has held up well. The differential has started to sweat as well and the car has never seen winter tires in 9 years of use...

We've also had a 1990 Integra GS sedan 4AT with no A/C... The worst combo I know. Ran to 325k then died due to a problem that couldn't be diagnosed (no OBD II). A 2008 (that got hailed to shit) and a 2014 Civic which were fine.

 

[Newflyer3]

I find your assessment of the 2014 Mazda hard to believe. Considering how Car and Driver and most of the automotive press was giving it top score in terms of driving dynamics and packaging/interior quality, I'm curious to how you can justify how "Mazda doesn't care about much what the consumer or driver wants."

Also I would say your driving style is the best indicator of brake wear. Do you drive mostly highway/city? Do you drive aggressively? Can't "talk about reliability" since it's not like your brakes outright failed on you or if the design/quality of materials was defective...

 

[lzaffuto]

It's weird that you had bad experiences with Honda but none with Mazda. I'm the opposite. I've had great experiences with Honda, Toyota, and Nissan, and terrible ones with Mazda. I had two Miatas with blown engines, a '99 with the known bad thrust bearing issue and a '95 with bad oil control rings. I had an '08 Miata with intermittent check engine light that the dealership couldn't find the issue with, and warped brake rotors under 40k miles. And I had an '06 Mazda 3 with blown engine mounts, an intermittent driver side window problem, and an intermittent A/C issue that 3 different dealerships and an independent Mazda specialist shop couldn't find an issue with with only 47k miles. I love the way Mazdas drive, I love what the company stands for, and I know a lot of people that haven't had a single problem with them, but Mazdas just don't love me apparently. That's why even though the Mazda3 hatch best meets all of my needs and it's a better value I'm going with the Honda hatch this time.

 

[Stock_07]

I have owned many Mazda vehicles, 2006 Mazda 3 GT, 2014 Mazda 3 GT and a 2011 CX7. My CX7 brakes last only 35000km and my rear bearings went at 75k. Both Mazda 3s had their own issues as well. The 2006 Gt was the best Mazda even compared to my 2014 GT. Mazda makes nice looking cars but in terms of quality of the drive train and suspension Honda is far superior and I will never buy another Mazda ever again.

 

[turbo lover]

However, there have been no long term issues reported with CVTs used in Hybrid models in the mid 2000s, or I4 vehicles this decade. If you have a 5AT in a V6 Honda from the early 2000s good luck... Brake jobs, don't really care since 50-60k is a lot anyway and a full brake job is reasonably easy DIY and runs around $300 dealer serviced which by that time I don't give a shit about. A services run up to $50 and B services run up to $200. Stuff like air filters/tire rotations are easy of course anyway.

The CVT in the mid-2000s Civic Hybrid was one of the car's weak spots. I saw plenty of failure stories and in our Canadian prairie climate, the recommendation was to replace the fluid every 40k kms to avoid transmission slipping. But the most recent generation seems to be a little better, Honda probably has things better figured out now.

 

[Newflyer3]

The CVT in the mid-2000s Civic Hybrid was one of the car's weak spots. I saw plenty of failure stories and in our Canadian prairie climate, the recommendation was to replace the fluid every 40k kms to avoid transmission slipping. But the most recent generation seems to be a little better, Honda probably has things better figured out now.

Was it just limited to us due to our prarie climate and wild fluctuations or was it a straight up engineering fault like automatics in the early 2000s?

 

[turbo lover]

In general, it just seemed like a fragile design. I believe the standard CVT fluid replacement schedule was every 30k miles, and the transmission was very sensitive to fluid condition. Owners or dealers would not always be aware of the specific CVT and hybrid requirements and it would be neglected. This would lead to shuddering or slipping in the transmission. But even with proper maintenance procedures followed, there seemed to be a disproportionate number of people reporting transmission issues. One somewhat common procedure to eliminate some of the shuddering was to burnish the transmission components, but I'm not sure exactly what that means.

 

[ronmcdon]

I dont have a 10th gen civic, but I do have an 8th gen 2008 hybrid model with the cvt with about 120ish on the odometer, almost daily driven with a lot of street driving.

In terms of reliability I have had zero issues. I am impressed that the transmission hasnt gotten jerkier time goes by. All I do the specified routine maintenance. I also push the car fairly hard on street, highway, and canyon driving. I have never taken the car to do any track events. It has no engine modifications.

That being said, my own concern for reliability falls in line with how their turbo 1.5l engines may perform in the long run. For that reason, I wanted to wait a year or possibly 2 before trading in my 08 hybrid sedan for either a Si sedan or sport touring hatch. I would most definitely buy another civic.

Other new honda/acura models right now, I have no interest at all. Never understood the appeal of the Acura lineup

 

[Design]

My 09 Speed3 was built in Japan. It was the last year of that generation and considered the most refined/reliable. It shared nearly every component from the base 3 except the powertrain. Reliability has been mixed. Little to moderate things like the power window switch, purge valve, EGR, HID bulb, AC compressor, CV axle, oil cooler gasket, carpet misalignment, random misfires, and now oil consumption. The oil consumption stems from soot accumulation on the piston rings due to carb buildup from a poorly designed PCV system. But this is more to do with Mazda's first attempt at direct injection.

I think most modern cars today, sans a few, will go 80-100K problem free. It's when they reach 100K+ that owners will start to notice the difference between a reliable model that's simple to maintain vs. a problematic one with overly complex/interconnected parts.

I've posted this before and will post as long as it's relevant. This historical graph speaks volumes:

 

[Civic Fan 2016]

My family and I have been Honda and Toyota owners. I recently sold my 2000 Civic EX. No major issues except the typical wear and tear. It did have a slight oil leak due to old engine seals, but it would have cost too much to fix. Great car, no complaints. It had 176k miles on it. I was ready to upgrade, but I think the car still has another 5 years left on it.

 

[kperalta]

Yes, I would. Despite all of the issues and the engine swap I still love my touring. I honestly do plan on keeping it at least ten years if I can.

 

[Civics4Ever]

Since I have 3, and driven Honda's since 1985, yes. Never had an Accord, the coupes are really nice looking.

 

[Hmm888]

I find your assessment of the 2014 Mazda hard to believe. Considering how Car and Driver and most of the automotive press was giving it top score in terms of driving dynamics and packaging/interior quality, I'm curious to how you can justify how "Mazda doesn't care about much what the consumer or driver wants."

Also I would say your driving style is the best indicator of brake wear. Do you drive mostly highway/city? Do you drive aggressively? Can't "talk about reliability" since it's not like your brakes outright failed on you or if the design/quality of materials was defective...

Hmm. I can see the flaw in your logic. I learned a long, long time ago to take these reviews, especially C&D, Consumer Reports with a grain of salt. In the end, I make my own determination. I am not influenced by what others write as we all know many have their own agenda. I know many people take these reviews as gospel and are easily influenced by the power of suggestion. For example, last month the iPhone 7 was introduced. Many "photographers" said the iPhone took the best pics of any smartphone today, even Samsung. People in Apple forums were all enlightened. Many who critique side by side comparisons and voted for Samsung or another smartphone were flamed or trolled in some way. It wasn't until blind samples were posted online did the fanboys jaws drop at which pics were really better. Jimmy Kimmel does the same thing with the iPhone every few years and how he suggests to people this is the newest iphone when it is not. Many people are dumb and easily influenced or manipulated.

Honda has had brake issues with the civic back in the 90s and to a large degree today too. This is what I am hearing from mechanics that work on Honda and imports all day long. The rotors always have been rather meek. However, I suppose if reviews from C&R would say otherwise, it must be true

I suggest you do some quality research on Mazda, their issues, etc . It's not easy, but if you're not closed minded, you will see it. However, the caveat here is that just like with Android vs iPhone, you tend to see mostly fanboys in forums defending one product over the other.

Finally, today's Mazda's infotainment is archaic and unintuitive as it comes. My 2005 didn't even come with an Aux jack when virtually every manufacturer and model had one back then. It wasn't until 2007 or 2008 did Mazda decide to put one in. Still no Apple Carplay and Android Auto for 2017. Mazda customers have been asking for this for many years. From the chatter online, some people are ditching Mazda as a consideration for other brands like Kia or Honda because Mazda (and Toyota) lack these common entertainment features. Like Apple, Mazda thinks it knows what people want. Unlike Apple, Mazda doesn't.

It's weird that you had bad experiences with Honda but none with Mazda. I'm the opposite. I've had great experiences with Honda, Toyota, and Nissan, and terrible ones with Mazda. I had two Miatas with blown engines, a '99 with the known bad thrust bearing issue and a '95 with bad oil control rings. I had an '08 Miata with intermittent check engine light that the dealership couldn't find the issue with, and warped brake rotors under 40k miles. And I had an '06 Mazda 3 with blown engine mounts, an intermittent driver side window problem, and an intermittent A/C issue that 3 different dealerships and an independent Mazda specialist shop couldn't find an issue with with only 47k miles. I love the way Mazdas drive, I love what the company stands for, and I know a lot of people that haven't had a single problem with them, but Mazdas just don't love me apparently. That's why even though the Mazda3 hatch best meets all of my needs and it's a better value I'm going with the Honda hatch this time.

I am not loyal to any one particular car maker. A 2005, Mazda3 2.0 GS is currently owned by me, A 2006 Mazda 2.3 GT by my wife before she was in accident and it was write-off a few years ago (now 2014), and a family member who has a 2007 Mazda 3 GS. Again, no major issues just minor with their Mazdas. I know pre 2003 Mazdas had a lot of issues for sure. I was worried about reliability when I bought my 2005 so I bought the extended warranty. I never used it at all. Mazda's road noise is seems incessant and a trademark. While I think Mazda's handling is ok, I've had better especially from a VW Jetta or Golf. It's common knowledge that the best Mazdas are the 3 models. The 6s were problematic for many generations. I haven't kept up with Miata, but it seems like it too isn't very reliable.

I have owned many Mazda vehicles, 2006 Mazda 3 GT, 2014 Mazda 3 GT and a 2011 CX7. My CX7 brakes last only 35000km and my rear bearings went at 75k. Both Mazda 3s had their own issues as well. The 2006 Gt was the best Mazda even compared to my 2014 GT. Mazda makes nice looking cars but in terms of quality of the drive train and suspension Honda is far superior and I will never buy another Mazda ever again.

I've heard many Mazda SUV owners have issues with theirs. I drove the 2011 as a courtesy car and and I was underwhelmed.

Additionally, I won't do any maintenance of my car. The cost of DYI is moot. I am too old now. I have back issues. We live in a condo and not only is not permitted, but there is no room either. The current posts in this thread seem to be in contrast to this one: http://www.civicx.com/threads/would-you-buy-your-car-again.4037/

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