If all were an option, which Si would you choose?

Si Coupe, Sedan, or Hatch? (assuming any of these end up being an option)


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corbygray528

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The article also says, "It won’t quite be an Si, and neither will it be a flame-spitting Type R; both models are under development with more power, tauter handling, and other performance enhancements." So I'm confused on the matter. Car and Driver seems to contradict themselves here. I still think it's too early to make any definite calls; I'm sure Honda will have news as soon as they can. They're just as excited about the new generation as we are, and their engineers are busting their humps for us. We gotta remember, they're people too!
That sounds like the "sport" model to me... Sportier version that's not quite an SI...

 

DavidJBrooks

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The article also says, "It won’t quite be an Si, and neither will it be a flame-spitting Type R; both models are under development with more power, tauter handling, and other performance enhancements." So I'm confused on the matter. Car and Driver seems to contradict themselves here. I still think it's too early to make any definite calls; I'm sure Honda will have news as soon as they can. They're just as excited about the new generation as we are, and their engineers are busting their humps for us. We gotta remember, they're people too!
I don't think there's any contradiction - C&D is saying that the new hatch [in the normal and "sport" trims that will be released first] will be sporty, but not Si or CTR sporty - and then follows up by saying that the Si Hatch and CTR hatch are under development and will show up later.

It's absolutely too early to make definite calls, but C&D appears to be stating unequivocally, both here and in the coverage of the Si coupe mule, that the Si hatch is coming.
 
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DavidJBrooks

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Whoa, that's news to me! I seem to recall on the 'Future Vehicles' page in the tell me more section, when just the Civic Concept was first announced, they listed the Civic Si in both coupe and sedan, the sedan, the coupe, the hatch, and the Type-R hatch.

I've been under the impression that there will be no hatch Si but would welcome it. Decisions decisions
As someone who is involved with the creation of pages like this for a living, I can tell you that I don't think the wording on that "tell me more" page is of any value to predict the future. It originally said "Coupe", "Si Sedan" and "Si Coupe" (without the hatchback, before the hatchback was officially announced) - then it switch to "Hatchback, Si and CTR". That wording is decided on by marketing, and is often either behind or ahead of actual development.

For reference, C&D said fairly clearly a couple of months ago that they expect an Si hatch:

from http://www.caranddriver.com/news/new-2017-civic-si-coupe-spy-photos-news

"Like the rest of the Civic lineup, the Si rides on the bones of Honda’s Global Compact architecture, which will also underpin the next Accord and CR-V. Expect a U.K.-built four-door hatch to follow the coupe; and, because this is America and Honda has done it before, a sedan variant likely will be offered as well."

They are clearly not saying that a "regular" hatch will follow the Si coupe and be followed by an Si sedan; they are enumerating the Si body styles as coupe, hatch and sedan - possibly in that order.
 

corbygray528

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As someone who is involved with the creation of pages like this for a living, I can tell you that I don't think the wording on that "tell me more" page is of any value to predict the future. It originally said "Coupe", "Si Sedan" and "Si Coupe" (without the hatchback, before the hatchback was officially announced) - then it switch to "Hatchback, Si and CTR". That wording is decided on by marketing, and is often either behind or ahead of actual development.

For reference, C&D said fairly clearly a couple of months ago that they expect an Si hatch:

from http://www.caranddriver.com/news/new-2017-civic-si-coupe-spy-photos-news

"Like the rest of the Civic lineup, the Si rides on the bones of Honda’s Global Compact architecture, which will also underpin the next Accord and CR-V. Expect a U.K.-built four-door hatch to follow the coupe; and, because this is America and Honda has done it before, a sedan variant likely will be offered as well."

They are clearly not saying that a "regular" hatch will follow the Si coupe and be followed by an Si sedan; they are enumerating the Si body styles as coupe, hatch and sedan - possibly in that order.
So a page from Honda isn't a good indicator of the future, but an article from car and driver saying that they "expect to see" one with no actual source of information other than their own gut feeling is?

K.
 

DavidJBrooks

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So a page from Honda isn't a good indicator of the future, but an article from car and driver saying that they "expect to see" one with no actual source of information other than their own gut feeling is?

K.
Absolutely.

Given an old, vague marketing page from Honda vs an article from likely "in-the-know" journalists (who are paid based on their ability to accurately walk the line between conjecture and fact) published in a trusted, mainstream magazine - I'll choose the magazine every time.

Had this been a press release, statements by a rep at an auto show, or any sort of official release of information from Honda, I'd obviously give it the weight it deserves. But an inference about a product line decision based on a missing checkbox on an interest form does not seem like sound reasoning to me.

Did you know that the Honda page also currently lists the Sedan Si and Coupe Si for sale, and that they point you into oblivion if you select them? Does that mean that they are secretly available somewhere? Or does that mean neither of them will be available?
 


corbygray528

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Absolutely.

Given an old, vague marketing page from Honda vs an article from likely "in-the-know" journalists (who are paid based on their ability to accurately walk the line between conjecture and fact) published in a trusted, mainstream magazine - I'll choose the magazine every time.

Had this been a press release, statements by a rep at an auto show, or any sort of official release of information from Honda, I'd obviously give it the weight it deserves. But an inference about a product line decision based on a missing checkbox on an interest form does not seem like sound reasoning to me.

Did you know that the Honda page also currently lists the Sedan Si and Coupe Si for sale, and that they point you into oblivion if you select them? Does that mean that they are secretly available somewhere? Or does that mean neither of them will be available?
Maybe you could point me to the webpage that lists them as for sale? Because I don't see that anywhere on Honda's official website
 

DavidJBrooks

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Tried to post this earlier, then the site went down. I'll try again.

Anyway - I should have checked before I posted, but last week the "all vehicles" drop-down listed the Civic Si Sedan and Civic Si Coupe, but those are gone now. The title of the Civic page (http://automobiles.honda.com/civic/ -
look your browser title bar) still says "Honda Civic Family: Hybrid, Coupe, Sedan, Si, Natural Gas", though.

It's now big deal - but my point is just that even the "official" information on the "official" site should be taken with a grain of salt, simply because people make mistakes and/or decisions unrelated to product offerings are made when it comes to marketing materials.
 

corbygray528

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Tried to post this earlier, then the site went down. I'll try again.

Anyway - I should have checked before I posted, but last week the "all vehicles" drop-down listed the Civic Si Sedan and Civic Si Coupe, but those are gone now. The title of the Civic page (http://automobiles.honda.com/civic/ -
look your browser title bar) still says "Honda Civic Family: Hybrid, Coupe, Sedan, Si, Natural Gas", though.

It's now big deal - but my point is just that even the "official" information on the "official" site should be taken with a grain of salt, simply because people make mistakes and/or decisions unrelated to product offerings are made when it comes to marketing materials.
Or maybe they have created placeholder webpages for products they are going to launch, the links to which weren't meant to be made visible at the time and it slipped through? That doesn't mean the information across their entire website should be "taken with a grain of salt". I trust official information far more than what some writer for a publication long past its prime "expects" to see
 

DavidJBrooks

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Or maybe they have created placeholder webpages for products they are going to launch, the links to which weren't meant to be made visible at the time and it slipped through? That doesn't mean the information across their entire website should be "taken with a grain of salt". I trust official information far more than what some writer for a publication long past its prime "expects" to see
That's your choice. I trust official information from the manufacturer far ahead of information from a journalist. My only point is that I wouldn't form an opinion from a missing checkbox on a marketing form - and in the absolute and utter lack of any official information from Honda on the topic, the opinion of a Car and Driver is valuable - and we have no reason to doubt it.

Also - the Sedan Si and Coupe Si options in the list were the same options they had before - they just hadn't been taken down until recently.
 


BakedTuna

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Read the quote from C&D again "Honda says that there will be sportier versions of the hatch, namely the Si and the Type R, both of which arrive later in the 2017 model year". The author is not speculating it clearly says "Honda says" and then calls out the Si and Type R by name.
 
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sgtmorph

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Read the quote from C&D again "Honda says that there will be sportier versions of the hatch, namely the Si and the Type R, both of which arrive later in the 2017 model year". The author is not speculating it clearly says "Honda says" and then calls out the Si and Type R by name.
By C&D putting in print "Honda says that there will be sportier versions of the hatch, namely the Si and the Type R, both of which arrive later in the 2017 model year" doesn't hold any weight with me. It simply doesn't.

I WANT it to be true! I voted for Si in hatch form when I created this poll.

Any writer, journalist, editor, etc. and so on can put any words they want to print but none of it will hold weight to me until I hear it direct from the horses mouth.

Again I state, I want the Si to come in hatch as well. So right now it's as cut and dry, and as black and white, as a 50/50 chance of either yes or no.

Very few select people actually KNOW the real answer as to whether or not we will end up smiling or frowning.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

corbygray528

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They say "Honda says", but never tell us where or when Honda says/said it. Was it in a private interview they held with a representative? They never mention anything about interviewing a rep. Was it a press release we all missed? Surely someone here would have combed through that information at some point. Was it the authors ass?

Seems like the last option is the most likely. Taking an online authors words at face value is a pretty stupid thing to do if they don't have a source for the words they are saying.
 

Sgtstaadanko

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Can't we all just be a bit more patient and wait for official word instead of arguing over speculation? :dunno::hmm:
 

DavidJBrooks

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Taking an online authors words at face value is a pretty stupid thing to do if they don't have a source for the words they are saying.
My position is that we have no official public confirmation either way, but people who know more than me say it's coming. I don't take everything that Car and Driver says (not an "online author," BTW) as gospel, but let's face it - so far, they have far more credibility than anybody on here who is saying it isn't coming. Doing that simple math gives me good reason to think an Si hatch is, in fact, on the way in the near future.

But hey, we each have our own strategy for coming to our conclusions - and until Honda sings, we won't really know the score.

 

 
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