JT Si
Senior Member
- Thread starter
- #1
Good evening, gentlemen.
I ordered the ACT clutch kit with the organic disc back in December when they were first launched. As far as I know, I am the third person on these forums to install one.
https://www.advancedclutch.com/product/hdperf-street-sprung-hc10-hdss?gfid=p4783-c319310
I did the install myself in my garage with jack stands and a single daytona yellow floor jack. It took me around 5 weekends working only on the weekend. Sometimes I got to a point where I needed to order a part, or I would get stuck and frustrated and give up until the following weekend.
This is not intended to be a walkthrough - you can find that in the ACT YouTube video for the civicX clutch install. This is a collection of the things I had to buy I didn't have (tools and parts) and all the mistakes and quirks I encountered along the way.
I ended up buying several tools and parts:
Here's the comprehensive list of mistakes I made or quirks I encountered:
My impressions at 275 miles:
Other thoughts:
Longer term impressions are yet to come. I am currently working through the ACT recommended 300-500 mile break in so soon I will know if:
1) The clutch holds TSP stage 1 without issue
2) If my correctly adjusted clutch setup causes high RPM lockout
Update
UPDATE 3/1/20
I swapped master cylinders with the Sirimoto N1 due to a major lockout event I had that ended up changing the engagement point and giving a spongy feel at the top of the clutch pedal. You can read in my other thread about it here:
https://www.civicx.com/threads/some...clutch-help-me-hypothesize.46497/#post-764969
Now that I have the correct adjustment range on the N1 with a rod swap, it is working perfectly. I experienced no lockouts or even a resistance to shifting under conditions that would have 100% locked me out previously.
Seems like a master cylinder swap fixed it right up. I'll be testing more and more conditions to see if there's any lockout left.
I would not advise buying the N1 master cylinder at this time for the following reasons:
With the ACT clutch kit, the rod it comes with will not adjust appropriately due to a change in the rod length from OEM. I have no idea why they thought it was a good idea to deviate from the dimensions of the OEM adjustment range.
The OEM rod fitment is questionable. The internal spring is lighter than the OEM and I am not a fan of the pedal feel of the N1. I am only using it because it works and it fixed my lockout and pedal issue for the time being.
If Sirimoto will modify the design of their N1 to have a stiffer spring and change the rod length to match OEM I would have no issues recommending it. The internal and overall construction of it is higher quality than OEM in some aspects.
N1 review here: https://www.civicx.com/threads/siri...inder-review-with-act-hc10-hdss-clutch.46698/
I ordered the ACT clutch kit with the organic disc back in December when they were first launched. As far as I know, I am the third person on these forums to install one.
https://www.advancedclutch.com/product/hdperf-street-sprung-hc10-hdss?gfid=p4783-c319310
I did the install myself in my garage with jack stands and a single daytona yellow floor jack. It took me around 5 weekends working only on the weekend. Sometimes I got to a point where I needed to order a part, or I would get stuck and frustrated and give up until the following weekend.
This is not intended to be a walkthrough - you can find that in the ACT YouTube video for the civicX clutch install. This is a collection of the things I had to buy I didn't have (tools and parts) and all the mistakes and quirks I encountered along the way.
I ended up buying several tools and parts:
a 36mm axle socket
a 26" 1/2" breaker bar for the axle nut removal
a ratcheting wrench set (for the bell housing bolt by the downpipe)
an m12x1.25 tap to fix two sloppy/damaged bell housing bolt holes (not my fault, they were damaged when I took the bolts out)
a ball joint removal tool to pop out the tie rod ball joints
12 point socket set to remove the OEM pressure plate and flywheel bolts
Crank pulley tool to hold the crank while torquing the flywheel bolts
The Honda subframe alignment pin tool
The Honda engine brace eyelet, a mounting bolt, and spacers.
2x6 and a hook to build an engine brace that laid across the top of the fender pinch welds
I ended up replacing the axle nuts, one damaged bell housing bolt, the pilot bushing in the new ACT flywheel (I'll explain later), the retaining ring on the driver's side axle, and installed an upgraded front sway bar.
a 26" 1/2" breaker bar for the axle nut removal
a ratcheting wrench set (for the bell housing bolt by the downpipe)
an m12x1.25 tap to fix two sloppy/damaged bell housing bolt holes (not my fault, they were damaged when I took the bolts out)
a ball joint removal tool to pop out the tie rod ball joints
12 point socket set to remove the OEM pressure plate and flywheel bolts
Crank pulley tool to hold the crank while torquing the flywheel bolts
The Honda subframe alignment pin tool
The Honda engine brace eyelet, a mounting bolt, and spacers.
2x6 and a hook to build an engine brace that laid across the top of the fender pinch welds
I ended up replacing the axle nuts, one damaged bell housing bolt, the pilot bushing in the new ACT flywheel (I'll explain later), the retaining ring on the driver's side axle, and installed an upgraded front sway bar.
Here's the comprehensive list of mistakes I made or quirks I encountered:
When dropping the subframe, I placed the jack at the front jack point on the subframe. This is extremely close, a couple inches from the center of balance. Placing the jack toward the front of the subframe from where the jack point is will balance it perfectly and allow you to drop it without effort.
Even with the car on jack stands as high as they could be set, I had to maneuver the transmission out around a knuckle in the wheel well because it was taller than the clearance of the frame.
While pulling the axles out, I accidentally pulled one CV joint loose because I didn't pound the axle out of the hub with a hammer to start. It took me a few minutes to realize, and I had to drop the axle end first on the ground to pop the joint back into place. Fortunately it did not damage the boot.
I disconnected the steering column from the steering gear before I disconnected the tie rods from the knuckles - OOPS! When I was pounding the tie rods from the knuckle (which didn't work, BTW they were stuck in with the might of Zeus. I had to go to harbor freight and get a ball joint removal tool to pop them out) the tie rods shifted the steering position of the gear. Even though I carefully aligned the wheel dead center and the steering wheel lock held it there the steering gear being shifted caused it to be misaligned when I hooked everything back up. I spent 30 minutes hand-turning a knuckle to try and straighten the steering then reconnect the steering wheel to hope it was centered right. The plastic alignment guide on the steering gear easily pops out of place and is of marginal use.
I could not for the life of me get the driver's side axle to pop back into the transmission. The knuckle sits in the way and it has a retaining ring that is quite firm. Turning the knuckle to face the rear of the vehicle and rubbing some oil or tranny fluid on the splines of the axle give you a straight shot at pushing it into place.
When I removed the bell housing bolts, the bolt by the downpipe had a ton of inexplicable resistance. Due to very poor clearance, a ratchet and socket don't fit and there's no way to snake an extension through to access it. The only way to get it is with a ratcheting wrench, and it's a damn pain. After I got the trans out I inspected it and the threads were toasted. I assume being right next to the downpipe it gets heat cycled often, so I used a tap with some corrosionx to clean it up and it worked beautifully.
There is a bell housing bolt above the starter that is hard to reach. The first time I tried reinstalling the trans I hadn't realized it, but the threads on the bolt were stuck with aluminum bits. I assume in assembly they didn't fully clear out the bits from tapping the threads. I had to replace this bolt with a new one with clean threads and tap the hole to clean it up. After that, it worked perfectly well.
Don't, don't, don't force the transmission into place. I didn't have the clutch aligned quite right and ended up damaging the pilot bushing that came in the ACT flywheel. I had to get a new bushing at the dealer and replace it. Fortunately it was easy without having to take the flywheel back out.
The transmission mount has a bolt through the rubber in the center that ACT removes in their video, allowing the mount to fall apart. The service manual explicitly states if you remove that bolt, the mount is ruined and has to be replaced. I chose to instead remove the mount as one whole piece, which required removing the mounting bolts for the ECU and wiring harnesses, as well as popping the plastic clip for another wiring harness to access the chassis side bolts.
When I reinstalled the transmission, I made sure to torque all the bell housing bolts. Then I removed the jack allowing it to be supported by the mount and re-torqued them. Then I used the jack to apply various forces on the transmission and re-torqued the bolts again. Despite my efforts, after I had driven 150 miles I found two of the bell housing bolts were loose. I had to remove the front pipe to access them, and I had to remove the intake and battery in order to check the rest of them.
When I first started the car after the install, I hadn't adjusted the clutch pedal at all. I was greeted by grinding and scraping. The grinding went away quickly, but the scraping persisted only with the clutch pedal fully depressed. Eventually I figured out I was overextending the bellevue spring, and I adjusted the clutch pedal. As of now I have it adjusted in two full turns and it seems excellent. However the engagement point is still slightly higher than is like and I may change it to 2.5 turns.
When I loosened the flywheel bolts, I used a prybar lodged in the teeth of the OEM flywheel. It worked alright, but only because the teeth are angled toward the engine, which held the tip of the prybar in place. When I tried to use the prybar to hold the ACT flywheel to tighten the flywheel bolts, it kept slipping out/skipping teeth. I ended up gouging several teeth and ended that weekend in frustration. Fortunately, the flywheel is very hard and the gouging was superficial. I cleaned up the teeth with some 220 grit sandpaper just to make sure the starter wouldn't hang and I ordered a honda crank pulley tool, which I used to hold the crank while I tightened the flywheel bolts. This made it incredibly easy, and I wish I had done this the entire time (both removal and installation). It would have saved lots of time, effort, and flywheel teeth.
Even with the car on jack stands as high as they could be set, I had to maneuver the transmission out around a knuckle in the wheel well because it was taller than the clearance of the frame.
While pulling the axles out, I accidentally pulled one CV joint loose because I didn't pound the axle out of the hub with a hammer to start. It took me a few minutes to realize, and I had to drop the axle end first on the ground to pop the joint back into place. Fortunately it did not damage the boot.
I disconnected the steering column from the steering gear before I disconnected the tie rods from the knuckles - OOPS! When I was pounding the tie rods from the knuckle (which didn't work, BTW they were stuck in with the might of Zeus. I had to go to harbor freight and get a ball joint removal tool to pop them out) the tie rods shifted the steering position of the gear. Even though I carefully aligned the wheel dead center and the steering wheel lock held it there the steering gear being shifted caused it to be misaligned when I hooked everything back up. I spent 30 minutes hand-turning a knuckle to try and straighten the steering then reconnect the steering wheel to hope it was centered right. The plastic alignment guide on the steering gear easily pops out of place and is of marginal use.
I could not for the life of me get the driver's side axle to pop back into the transmission. The knuckle sits in the way and it has a retaining ring that is quite firm. Turning the knuckle to face the rear of the vehicle and rubbing some oil or tranny fluid on the splines of the axle give you a straight shot at pushing it into place.
When I removed the bell housing bolts, the bolt by the downpipe had a ton of inexplicable resistance. Due to very poor clearance, a ratchet and socket don't fit and there's no way to snake an extension through to access it. The only way to get it is with a ratcheting wrench, and it's a damn pain. After I got the trans out I inspected it and the threads were toasted. I assume being right next to the downpipe it gets heat cycled often, so I used a tap with some corrosionx to clean it up and it worked beautifully.
There is a bell housing bolt above the starter that is hard to reach. The first time I tried reinstalling the trans I hadn't realized it, but the threads on the bolt were stuck with aluminum bits. I assume in assembly they didn't fully clear out the bits from tapping the threads. I had to replace this bolt with a new one with clean threads and tap the hole to clean it up. After that, it worked perfectly well.
Don't, don't, don't force the transmission into place. I didn't have the clutch aligned quite right and ended up damaging the pilot bushing that came in the ACT flywheel. I had to get a new bushing at the dealer and replace it. Fortunately it was easy without having to take the flywheel back out.
The transmission mount has a bolt through the rubber in the center that ACT removes in their video, allowing the mount to fall apart. The service manual explicitly states if you remove that bolt, the mount is ruined and has to be replaced. I chose to instead remove the mount as one whole piece, which required removing the mounting bolts for the ECU and wiring harnesses, as well as popping the plastic clip for another wiring harness to access the chassis side bolts.
When I reinstalled the transmission, I made sure to torque all the bell housing bolts. Then I removed the jack allowing it to be supported by the mount and re-torqued them. Then I used the jack to apply various forces on the transmission and re-torqued the bolts again. Despite my efforts, after I had driven 150 miles I found two of the bell housing bolts were loose. I had to remove the front pipe to access them, and I had to remove the intake and battery in order to check the rest of them.
When I first started the car after the install, I hadn't adjusted the clutch pedal at all. I was greeted by grinding and scraping. The grinding went away quickly, but the scraping persisted only with the clutch pedal fully depressed. Eventually I figured out I was overextending the bellevue spring, and I adjusted the clutch pedal. As of now I have it adjusted in two full turns and it seems excellent. However the engagement point is still slightly higher than is like and I may change it to 2.5 turns.
When I loosened the flywheel bolts, I used a prybar lodged in the teeth of the OEM flywheel. It worked alright, but only because the teeth are angled toward the engine, which held the tip of the prybar in place. When I tried to use the prybar to hold the ACT flywheel to tighten the flywheel bolts, it kept slipping out/skipping teeth. I ended up gouging several teeth and ended that weekend in frustration. Fortunately, the flywheel is very hard and the gouging was superficial. I cleaned up the teeth with some 220 grit sandpaper just to make sure the starter wouldn't hang and I ordered a honda crank pulley tool, which I used to hold the crank while I tightened the flywheel bolts. This made it incredibly easy, and I wish I had done this the entire time (both removal and installation). It would have saved lots of time, effort, and flywheel teeth.
My impressions at 275 miles:
So far, it's been amazing. The vibration and noise I had from the 27won rear motor mount are drastically reduced. The engine sound in the cabin is far more refined and enjoyable. That sprung dual mass flywheel was a joke compared to this.
The clutch engagement is awesome. Quick and firm, no slop. No vagueness. No question of what you're doing. It's precise. The OEM clutch setup was a disaster with it's vague engagement that seemed like it was the entire pedal travel, but also shifting around like a moving target making consistent starts and shifts impossible.
Every single thing about this setup is far better than the OEM. I feel like with how much this improved the vehicle, Honda really dropped the ball.
The clutch engagement is awesome. Quick and firm, no slop. No vagueness. No question of what you're doing. It's precise. The OEM clutch setup was a disaster with it's vague engagement that seemed like it was the entire pedal travel, but also shifting around like a moving target making consistent starts and shifts impossible.
Every single thing about this setup is far better than the OEM. I feel like with how much this improved the vehicle, Honda really dropped the ball.
Other thoughts:
I think there was something wrong with my OEM clutch setup from the factory. I always had trouble shifting, especially when cold it was impossible to shift gears. When downshifting, even with a throttle blip and double clutching second was difficult at best to get into.
I inspected the OEM clutch and input shaft. There appeared to be no lubricant of any kind I could find on there. I don't think it was assembled correctly - the service manual states a specific amount of grease that should be present.
When I drained my transmission fluid the first time at 5k, there was a lot of gold flake. Nothing I'd worry about since the transmission was breaking in. But when I drained the fluid at 11k to do the clutch job, it had just as much gold flake. I think the OEM clutch was misadjusted/unlubricated/malfunctional in general causing excessive clutch and synchro wear, which potentially led to my clutch slipping when others do not have this issue.
I think the variability in whether someone experiences slip or difficulty changing gears may have something to do with issues like these.
Ever since I installed the clutch and adjusted the pedal correctly, I have zero resistance shifting into gear, no matter how cold it is. I drove from a cold start this morning at 33F and the transmission was as silky as butter. Every single condition I've driven so far is so dramatically better for shifting and clutch action I'm ashamed to think Honda made the OEM setup.
I inspected the OEM clutch and input shaft. There appeared to be no lubricant of any kind I could find on there. I don't think it was assembled correctly - the service manual states a specific amount of grease that should be present.
When I drained my transmission fluid the first time at 5k, there was a lot of gold flake. Nothing I'd worry about since the transmission was breaking in. But when I drained the fluid at 11k to do the clutch job, it had just as much gold flake. I think the OEM clutch was misadjusted/unlubricated/malfunctional in general causing excessive clutch and synchro wear, which potentially led to my clutch slipping when others do not have this issue.
I think the variability in whether someone experiences slip or difficulty changing gears may have something to do with issues like these.
Ever since I installed the clutch and adjusted the pedal correctly, I have zero resistance shifting into gear, no matter how cold it is. I drove from a cold start this morning at 33F and the transmission was as silky as butter. Every single condition I've driven so far is so dramatically better for shifting and clutch action I'm ashamed to think Honda made the OEM setup.
Longer term impressions are yet to come. I am currently working through the ACT recommended 300-500 mile break in so soon I will know if:
1) The clutch holds TSP stage 1 without issue
2) If my correctly adjusted clutch setup causes high RPM lockout
Update
I hit 300 miles today, so I gave it the beans a few times in TSP map 1 sport (factory PSI). No hard launches.
I experienced a lockout from 3->4 around 6,000 RPM, but I realized I was being lazy with my clutch foot - I didn't quickly and fully depress the pedal, I didn't make sure it was fully depressed before I shifted, and I was overlapping releasing the pedal with putting it into gear.
I followed that with a series of shifts quickly and deliberately pressing down on the clutch fully, shifting, then releasing after the shifter was in gear. I had no more lockouts or issues. I tested shifting 1->2 at redline, 2->3 at redline, and 3->4 over 6000 RPM.
I'll be waiting a couple hundred more miles before switching out to TSP map 2 or 3 and bumping up the boost.
I experienced a lockout from 3->4 around 6,000 RPM, but I realized I was being lazy with my clutch foot - I didn't quickly and fully depress the pedal, I didn't make sure it was fully depressed before I shifted, and I was overlapping releasing the pedal with putting it into gear.
I followed that with a series of shifts quickly and deliberately pressing down on the clutch fully, shifting, then releasing after the shifter was in gear. I had no more lockouts or issues. I tested shifting 1->2 at redline, 2->3 at redline, and 3->4 over 6000 RPM.
I'll be waiting a couple hundred more miles before switching out to TSP map 2 or 3 and bumping up the boost.
UPDATE 3/1/20
I swapped master cylinders with the Sirimoto N1 due to a major lockout event I had that ended up changing the engagement point and giving a spongy feel at the top of the clutch pedal. You can read in my other thread about it here:
https://www.civicx.com/threads/some...clutch-help-me-hypothesize.46497/#post-764969
Now that I have the correct adjustment range on the N1 with a rod swap, it is working perfectly. I experienced no lockouts or even a resistance to shifting under conditions that would have 100% locked me out previously.
Seems like a master cylinder swap fixed it right up. I'll be testing more and more conditions to see if there's any lockout left.
I would not advise buying the N1 master cylinder at this time for the following reasons:
With the ACT clutch kit, the rod it comes with will not adjust appropriately due to a change in the rod length from OEM. I have no idea why they thought it was a good idea to deviate from the dimensions of the OEM adjustment range.
The OEM rod fitment is questionable. The internal spring is lighter than the OEM and I am not a fan of the pedal feel of the N1. I am only using it because it works and it fixed my lockout and pedal issue for the time being.
If Sirimoto will modify the design of their N1 to have a stiffer spring and change the rod length to match OEM I would have no issues recommending it. The internal and overall construction of it is higher quality than OEM in some aspects.
N1 review here: https://www.civicx.com/threads/siri...inder-review-with-act-hc10-hdss-clutch.46698/
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