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I HOPE HONDA HEARS THIS ABOUT FL5 PRICING!

SP R KiD

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Whining on a forum will not change the fact that dealers will keep doing this if the market allows for it.

Nobody is getting this car for below sticker so a “good deal” right now is MSRP or $5K ADM. I suspect many of these people getting these deals are getting hosed on their trade in and the dealer is playing games with the numbers to make them feel good about it.

@mcharity if you magically get an MSRP deal and the used car market in 2-3 years is $5K over the original MSRP will you sell it for under value just because you should?
No he won't because he doesn't actually understand what he's arguing so asking him that question is a waste of time. 99% of people will maximize their sale on anything they own irregardless of what they paid for it. If he thinks we are mindless "in debt" slaves to capitalism then he's smart enough to not let himself lose money on a sale because of "morals." That would also imply he understands our argument but that would mean he's not right so he won't say that. Let him live in his world of hypocrisy and utopia where all cars are sold at MSRP that doesn't exist 😂
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DarthTrizzle

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It didn’t wash the markup. You chose to throw away equity for the privilege of buying a car.
That equity will be gone no matter what when the market corrects and I think that happens pretty soon. We are already seeing pricing on used cars start to drop. I also think you make a lot of assumptions about people's finances. The average purchase price of a automobile in the US is $48k, which isn't far off from what I paid for the CTR. Are there people who over extend themselves to buy one? Absolutely. However there are also plenty like me who saved up a little and could afford a more expensive option. Of the cars I was shopping the CTR is actually the cheapest even with the ADM. Factor in long term cost of ownership and the CTR was the value of the models I was shopping. If your worried about value and low cost of ownership a sport hatch is probably a better option for you. In the end the CTR is an enthusiast car with a limited production. It will always demand a premium price.
 

Xchax3

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Just a big rant about pricing. Which I know there are probably many in here. I just called a dealer in Virginia. They want $69,000 for there Type R. I am still laughing. What a joke this has become. Has anyone besides Savagegeese gotten one at MSRP? Not mad at ya geese, use those connections. If other tubers a paying over MSRP you are just adding to the problem. You guys have the loudest voices. Tell the dealers to chill. As for honda. I know you do not care. You should be ashamed of yourself for not calling these dealers out and letting them get away with this. I have had two hondas in the past. Good cars. But this has just completely turned me off the brand. TAKE THE LEAD HONDA. HELP THE CONSUMER OUT! Just needed to get that off my chest. Peace out.
I don't mean to be a dick but I'm going to be as brutally honest as possible.

Honda knows and they don't care. They're happy the car is being sold and the demand for it is astronomical. Unless there are any billionaire lobbyists who can influence the changing of franchising laws on cars on this forum, then we're shit out of luck. It's just the way capitalism works. I bet you that anyone here wouldn't want this car to depreciate in price and wouldn't sell it for less than what is demanded if they had the car. They only want that to be the case when they don't have it themselves.

If you want the car: It sounds really messed up but the best anyone here can do is to keep researching and jump on MSRP (the unicorn) or the lowest ADM (most likely) because this car will not stay at the same asking price in the coming years. And waiting is a horrible idea for this reason. I hate how everyone is saying "wait, wait, it'll go down." IT WON'T. The FK8 had an upward trend and so does every other car. This car will be produced less as they almost always have a similar release period of 4 model years. You can take a chance, save now, and see if the stock market crashes. But I doubt prices will budge. They'll just sit and wait for it to recover and layoff non-essential employees. Which sucks.

So get on it. I hate to get all Andrew Tate about this crap and I don't mean to sound that way but we're beating a dead horse and I think there's too much wishful thinking or misinformation going on here.
 
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SP R KiD

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I just would like to reiterate because I feel like the people who vocally hate MSRP markups and honda because of it always think we are defending markups.

We arent. No one wants to pay more money. No one wants to have less money. We all want the car for the best deal so we can enjoy the car while not spending the most money possible.

But a lot of the alternatives are not perfect. I don't know that I'd even argue any of them are better than our current situation.

I do know this though, if you put in the effort you absolutely should to get the car for the price you want, you have a good chance of eventually getting that deal. Yes there is no guarantee. But it's not like getting this car should be as easy as driving up to any given dealer and walking away with one. It should be a challenge. If it wasn't this car wouldn't be special and therefore we wouldn't be having these conversations 🤷‍♂️
 

DarthTrizzle

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I don't mean to be a dick but I'm going to be as brutally honest as possible.

Honda knows and they don't care. They're happy the car is being sold and the demand for it is astronomical. Unless there are any billionaire lobbyists who can influence the changing of franchising laws on cars on this forum, then we're shit out of luck. It's just the way capitalism works. I bet you that anyone here wouldn't want this car to depreciate in price and wouldn't sell it for less than what is demanded if they had the car. They only want that to be the case when they don't have it themselves.

If you want the car: It sounds really messed up but the best anyone here can do is to keep researching and jump on MSRP (the unicorn) or the lowest ADM (most likely) because this car will not stay at the same asking price in the coming years. And waiting is a horrible idea for this reason. I hate how everyone is saying "wait, wait, it'll go down." IT WON'T. The FK8 had an upward trend and so does every other car. This car will be produced less as they almost always have a similar release period of 4 model years. 400 a month is so low compared to the FK8. We'll probably end up with just under 20,000 cars. You can take a chance, save now, and see if the stock market crashes. But I doubt prices will budge. They'll just sit and wait for it to recover and layoff non-essential employees. Which sucks.

So get on it. I hate to get all Andrew Tate about this crap and I don't mean to sound that way but we're beating a dead horse and I think there's too much wishful thinking or misinformation going on here.
MSRP has already gone up and the car hasn't been released for six months yet. As long as demand is higher than supply we will continue to see this. It's an awesome car and tbh it feels about twice the car my FC3 was. I don't regret paying some ADM when I walk into my garage and smile when I see my FL5 parked there.
 


Starchland

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Free market capitalism. You don’t get to choose which parts you participate in. Well you do, by not buying the car.
 
OP
OP

Ic@ns33urhrt

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I hate to brake the Bad news to you, But Honda won’t do anything, Nada !!!!! Unfortunately. They could care less.
I know. No body will.
I don't mean to be a dick but I'm going to be as brutally honest as possible.

Honda knows and they don't care. They're happy the car is being sold and the demand for it is astronomical. Unless there are any billionaire lobbyists who can influence the changing of franchising laws on cars on this forum, then we're shit out of luck. It's just the way capitalism works. I bet you that anyone here wouldn't want this car to depreciate in price and wouldn't sell it for less than what is demanded if they had the car. They only want that to be the case when they don't have it themselves.

If you want the car: It sounds really messed up but the best anyone here can do is to keep researching and jump on MSRP (the unicorn) or the lowest ADM (most likely) because this car will not stay at the same asking price in the coming years. And waiting is a horrible idea for this reason. I hate how everyone is saying "wait, wait, it'll go down." IT WON'T. The FK8 had an upward trend and so does every other car. This car will be produced less as they almost always have a similar release period of 4 model years. 400 a month is so low compared to the FK8. We'll probably end up with just under 20,000 cars. You can take a chance, save now, and see if the stock market crashes. But I doubt prices will budge. They'll just sit and wait for it to recover and layoff non-essential employees. Which sucks.

So get on it. I hate to get all Andrew Tate about this crap and I don't mean to sound that way but we're beating a dead horse and I think there's too much wishful thinking or misinformation going on here.
I don't mean to be a dick but I'm going to be as brutally honest as possible.

Honda knows and they don't care. They're happy the car is being sold and the demand for it is astronomical. Unless there are any billionaire lobbyists who can influence the changing of franchising laws on cars on this forum, then we're shit out of luck. It's just the way capitalism works. I bet you that anyone here wouldn't want this car to depreciate in price and wouldn't sell it for less than what is demanded if they had the car. They only want that to be the case when they don't have it themselves.

If you want the car: It sounds really messed up but the best anyone here can do is to keep researching and jump on MSRP (the unicorn) or the lowest ADM (most likely) because this car will not stay at the same asking price in the coming years. And waiting is a horrible idea for this reason. I hate how everyone is saying "wait, wait, it'll go down." IT WON'T. The FK8 had an upward trend and so does every other car. This car will be produced less as they almost always have a similar release period of 4 model years. 400 a month is so low compared to the FK8. We'll probably end up with just under 20,000 cars. You can take a chance, save now, and see if the stock market crashes. But I doubt prices will budge. They'll just sit and wait for it to recover and layoff non-essential employees. Which sucks.

So get on it. I hate to get all Andrew Tate about this crap and I don't mean to sound that way but we're beating a dead horse and I think there's too much wishful thinking or misinformation going on here.
 

mcharity

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Free market capitalism. You don’t get to choose which parts you participate in. Well you do, by not buying the car.
We explicitly ARE NOT a free market capitalist society. We are a mixed market. That mixed market is government regulation. The same regulations that say we cannot buy from an OEM.

In a truly free market anyone who wanted to sell new Hondas could. Not just a middle man.
 

halohalomix206

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yeah quite frankly I agree that Honda probably can give no effs about the adm that is happening right now. The car clearly is selling and some people are willing to pay the adm. With that being said the worst adm I have found so far is 68k starting, that is from a dealer in Florida.

Here in the 808 it's been a steady 15k...I don't see it going down anytime soon either..sucks...
 


Starchland

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My point being Honda can charge whatever they want. They are not a charity after all.
 

Y82OneTwoSix

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Actually I’d wager flippers are much less bad than dealer markup. You see a flipper has actual skin in the game. They paid for a car, with taxes and all the fees included. This flipper needs to find someone who wants the car even more than they do. If the flipper cannot sell the car for more then they have taken a huge loss. Losses that simply don’t exist in the dealership world. No dealership has ever lost money selling a Type R for MSRP.

Plus dealerships get a steady supply of new cars for a guaranteed price and sell them for a higher price. Along the way they get all sorts of kickbacks from the OEM.

I’m not sure why when markups come into play everyone needs to include a line where they mention they “love capitalism”. Capitalism like all economic systems is imperfect and requires constant input from the public in order to keep it operating properly.

Btw. The dealership monopsony is not the best example of Capitalism. One entity having the sole legal right to provide “X” product to the consumers in an area, isn’t really what Capitalism was supposed to encourage. Yes, buying out of state is possible but dealerships are incentivized to sell within their local market.

______

I’m not even going to touch what Capitalism would say about one dealership group owning multiple brands within a local area. Preventing anyone else from establishing a competing business and meaning that competing brands no longer need to compete on price because ultimately they are owned by the same entity.
Certainly not here to defend Honda or any other brand of dealership, but for you to suggest that they don't have any skin in the game is very difficult to understand.

Once a new vehicle leaves the factory and an MSO/MCO is issued that automobile then becomes the property of the dealership which of course they pay for immeditately therefore they are financing in most cases millions of dollars of inventory on their lots.

Had a discussion some time ago with the GM from a large dealership that is situated on ~60 acres of land which includes numerous buildings with their electricity bill in the desert summer being in the 6-figure range and the property taxe on some of these locations is beyond comprehension. The value of their inventory was over $40 million dollars which obviously is significant.

Again not here to defend automotive dealerships, but the overhead that most of them incurr is significant therefore to suggest that they have no skin is completely inacurrate.

Very difficult to imagine that American Honda in Torrance or Honda Canada in Markham would provide any kickbacks/dealer incentives to their Honda dealerships for the new FL5 which is the present topic of discussion as that definitely is not going to happen.

None of us enjoy ADM's and realize that it may involve a great deal of work, but if anyone is interested in getting an FL5 at a reasonable ADM, it is going to take a great deal of time, effort and patience therefore encourage any interested enthusiasts to go that route.
 

mcharity

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Certainly not here to defend Honda or any other brand of dealership, but for you to suggest that they don't have any skin in the game is very difficult to understand.

Once a new vehicle leaves the factory and an MSO/MCO is issued that automobile then becomes the property of the dealership which of course they pay for immeditately therefore they are financing in most cases millions of dollars of inventory on their lots.

Had a discussion some time ago with the GM from a large dealership that is situated on ~60 acres of land which includes numerous buildings with their electricity bill in the desert summer being in the 6-figure range and the property taxe on some of these locations is beyond comprehension. The value of their inventory was over $40 million dollars which obviously is significant.

Again not here to defend automotive dealerships, but the overhead that most of them incurr is significant therefore to suggest that they have no skin is completely inacurrate.

Very difficult to imagine that American Honda in Torrance or Honda Canada in Markham would provide any kickbacks/dealer incentives to their Honda dealerships for the new FL5 which is the present topic of discussion as that definitely is not going to happen.

None of us enjoy ADM's and realize that it may involve a great deal of work, but if anyone is interested in getting an FL5 at a reasonable ADM, it is going to take a great deal of time, effort and patience therefore encourage any interested enthusiasts to go that route.
I don’t understand why people feel the need to stretch what others say as a means to discredit them.

No one is saying that a dealership has no cost.

Obviously a dealership has floor plan cost, so yes they do have some “skin in the game”. However, a few hundred bucks a month to a dealership that is worth tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars is not a significant cost.

The comparison is:
- $50M dealership paying $300/month in floorplan to keep a Type R

- $2M net worth “flipper” with $50,000 tied up in a Type R

Each entity is trying to sell the car for more than they have invested in it. Which one has more to lose?

Please stay on topic.
 

Y82OneTwoSix

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I don’t understand why people feel the need to stretch what others say as a means to discredit them.

No one is saying that a dealership has no cost.

Obviously a dealership has floor plan cost, so yes they do have some “skin in the game”. However, a few hundred bucks a month to a dealership that is worth tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars is not a significant cost.

The comparison is:
- $50M dealership paying $300/month in floorplan to keep a Type R

- $2M net worth “flipper” with $50,000 tied up in a Type R

Each entity is trying to sell the car for more than they have invested in it. Which one has more to lose?

Please stay on topic.
Yes sir!!
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