Hoping to keep your CTR long term as an investment...something to think about.

[02SilverSiHB]

I can’t imagine anyone bought a CTR thinking it’s an investment.

no kidding, I bought it to drive it. If you have the cash to buy the CTR, maybe it could be an investment...if they're lucky to sell it a few years down the road for more...but you have to ask yourself...wouldn't investing 36K into something that gains more profit...be a better idea?

Cars are never an investment, people are just fooling themselves and making excuses, lol

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[02SilverSiHB]

LOL...let me share with you some realistic numbers and pragmattic approach. Anyone who thinks you know investments and car investments, I welcome the debate. I’m in the world of private equity where we get 300%-500% return on investments over 3-5 year period. Let that sink in. That’s no top of other investments I have that nets 25%-60% growth each year.

Simple: Time value of money in the world of investments. A dollar today is worth more than tomorrow due to inflation.

Inflation is currently forecasted at 2% per year through 2023 and beyond. Based on that you’re already LOSING money. Your $35K spent - not invested - needs to be growing at least inflation rate or 2% just to break even. At that rate $35k invested will be $43k after 10 years. Meaning your MINT CTR better have less than 5000 miles in 10 years and fetch $43k for you to break even.

Reality is - you LOST money not break even. Why? Growth at rate of inflation is losing money because you’re NOT getting a return greater than 2% over the 10 year period. Had you invested that $35K in something much higher return, you would have made money.

Therefore your car better damn well fetch at least $45k in 10 years for you to even think of the word “appreciation”. That’s assuming you have another car to drive while you keep you CTR mint all this time. Or you have a great investment portfolio that’s been generating at least 10%+ per year return so that you can keep your CTR wrapped away HOPING for that day to come.

My CTR was free - yes free. Nov 2016 I picked up a butt load of Apple stocks at $108/share. It traded at $225/share yesterday. I more than doubled my money in about 18 months (thank you Apple!) plus dividends every quarter. The gains alone paid for my CTR picked up March 16, 2018. So if you want to INVEST, look elsewhere because you’re dreaming a pipe dream if you sank money into a mass produced car HOPING one day it at least gets you what you paid for - which again is a loss. HOPE is not an investment strategy...it’s a pipe dream.

If you financed your CTR at 5% for 5 years, I haven’t even added that COST yet into the calculations above. That means you better hope for at least 7% (5% + 2%) growth on that $35k over 10 years...LOL!

Be realistic and pragmmatic....

lol, I just saw this...same thing I was thinking

 

[UFO CTR]

...Be realistic and pragmmatic....

Just a bit off subject, but I think the above statement can be apply to may facets of life with similar positive results! Who know these finance guys can be so philosophical

 

[typemismatch]

I think that people that want to talk about the CTR as an investment are just rationalizing a purchase they feel guilty about.

There's so much negativity around ADM, the polarizing looks, etc., that some people feel the need to rationalize.

Also, some people bought a car they couldn't afford for the cool factor, so they needed to tell themselves it was an investment.

Me ... buy it, drive it, enjoy it ... forget everything else, at the end of the day its a car. A pretty special car, but still just a car.

 

[boosted180sx]

cars are never an investment ...

I buy it, drive it when I want it, sell it when I want to and not worry about returns.

 

[UFO CTR]

cars are never an investment ...

I buy it, drive it when I want it, sell it when I want to and not worry about returns.

Well, maybe except the McLaren P1 or 911R...price got doubled as soon as it left the showroom floor!

 

[typemismatch]

@ctrmofo hit the basics when it comes to the cost of ownership from a money perspective, but he left a bunch of ownership cost stuff out, probably to keep the conversation simple.

In addition to the cost of money over time (inflation), and the opportunity cost of not using that money for better investments, there are other costs to consider
- Registration
- Insurance
- Maintenance, fluids still need to be changed, the gas still needs to be cycled, tires and bushings dry rot, etc.
- Garage space cost per square foot over time
- Climate control, even if you don't go full on car in a bubble, you have to control moisture and temp to prevent rusting and fluid freeze
- Rodent control

A car isn't an investment unless it's both super rare AND desirable.

 

[ctrmofo]

Just a bit off subject, but I think the above statement can be apply to may facets of life with similar positive results! Who know these finance guys can be so philosophical

LOL!!!

 

[ctrmofo]

Well, maybe except the McLaren P1 or 911R...price got doubled as soon as it left the showroom floor!

yep! or say 1 of 918 porsche 918s....or say ferrari f40 mint or 288 gto etc. some of the late model porsches are going to be good investments like 911R. very limited run cars or just enough numbers made for homogelation are the ones to invest in.

 

[ctrmofo]

@ctrmofo hit the basics when it comes to the cost of ownership from a money perspective, but he left a bunch of ownership cost stuff out, probably to keep the conversation simple.

In addition to the cost of money over time (inflation), and the opportunity cost of not using that money for better investments, there are other costs to consider
- Registration
- Insurance
- Maintenance, fluids still need to be change, the gas still needs to be cycled, tires and bushings dry rot, etc.
- Garage space cost per square foot over time
- Climate control, even if you don't go full on car in a bubble, you have to keep control moisture and temp to prevent rusting and fluid freeze
- Rodent control

A car isn't an investment unless it's both super rare AND desirable.

LOL...i'm adding up things in my head to move the target sale price up even more after 10 yrs for someone to break even.

 

[ctrmofo]

simple math...let's assume $35k purchase plus $15k of maintenance insurance etc. all paid up front just to keep it simple:

1) dump in $50k today and HOPE for big return 10 years later. 2% annual inflation plus 5% cost of loan makes it $100k in 10 years. meaning you need to get sale price of $100k to break even after 10 yrs....else car better sell over $100k - not a chance in hell.

or meanwhile...

2) invest $50k today in stocks or something else and get 15% (my minimum target)...in 10 years it becomes $202K. at 20% annual return it's $310k.

blue pill or red pill...take your pick ;-) why american average savings accounts are dismal: https://smartasset.com/checking-account/savings-account-average-balance

-----

The median savings account balance for those under 35 years old was $1,580. During the years between 35 and 44, balances grow significantly. The median for 35-year-olds to 44-year-olds is $5,000. By the time we reach 75 and above the median is $11,000.

Check out the full breakdown of median savings account balance by age:

• Under 35: $1,580
• 35-44: $5,000
• 45-54: $6,500
• 55-64: $8,500
• 65-74: $10,000
• 75+: $11,000

 

[UFO CTR]

yep! or say 1 of 918 porsche 918s....or say ferrari f40 mint or 288 gto etc. some of the late model porsches are going to be good investments like 911R. very limited run cars or just enough numbers made for homogelation are the ones to invest in.

I was thinking about the same thing...an auto broker across from my work place just took delivery of the below Lusso, but I think he will loose he butt off, as this Lusso is not limited. His next Ferrari, which is the 488 Pista coming in in Feb/2019, is a bit more limited, but still not a P1 or 911R, so not sure how well the Pista will do (in terms of investment).

 

[ctrmofo]

I was thinking about the same thing...an auto broker across from my work place just took delivery of the below Lusso, but I think he will loose he butt off, as this Lusso is not limited. His next Ferrari, which is the 488 Pista coming in in Feb/2019, is a bit more limited, but still not a P1 or 911R, so not sure how well the Pista will do (in terms of investment).

pista will be a good one. the 458 speciale aperta is going to be highly desirable. i expect the pista will be same.

 

[ctrmofo]

I was thinking about the same thing...an auto broker across from my work place just took delivery of the below Lusso, but I think he will loose he butt off, as this Lusso is not limited. His next Ferrari, which is the 488 Pista coming in in Feb/2019, is a bit more limited, but still not a P1 or 911R, so not sure how well the Pista will do (in terms of investment).

here you go...458 speciale aperta hits $1m price: https://carbuzz.com/news/the-ferrari-458-speciale-aperta-is-now-a-million-dollar-supercar

now THAT's a good investment car ;-)

 

[dn7309]

Check out the full breakdown of median savings account balance by age:

• Under 35: $1,580
• 35-44: $5,000
• 45-54: $6,500
• 55-64: $8,500
• 65-74: $10,000
• 75+: $11,000

You work in finance industry.

How acurate is that number? I have more than 5K in my savings by the time I finished highschool

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