Hoping to keep your CTR long term as an investment...something to think about.

Driveitlikeustoleit

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For those of you contemplating keeping your CTR long term in the hopes that it might garner high prices as a collector car, you should all be aware that from watching the various auto auctions on TV, in 95% of the cases, the highest dollar values paid are for cars in their original, unmodified condition.
Personally I don't believe the CTR will become a collector car and go up in value in the future like the ITR or some S2000's, because they have made, and continue to make far too many for that to happen in my opinion, but if I'm wrong then like I said a pristine, unmodified original car will garner the most money down the road.
Something to think about, if you are thinking about modifying your car.
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Driveitlikeustoleit

Driveitlikeustoleit

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I can’t imagine anyone bought a CTR thinking it’s an investment.
I disagree, I bet that when it was first announced that the USA would be getting it's first Type R that some early takers thought it might be a good investment, not knowing just how many would be produced.
 

ctrmofo

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LOL CTR as collector, not happening. It’s a mass produced car...same assembly line as all Civic Hatchbacks.

Bone stock, zero mods, less than 2500 miles a year, no accidents...maybe just maybe in 10 years it fetches 75% of original MSRP if lucky.

People who think it as “investment” need to understand inflation and cost of capital. I chuckle every time someone points to rare situations like ITT just sold with 11xx miles or a couple other models and claim same for CTR hehe. Drive it and enjoy...

Investments are for cars like Ferrari’s, rare Lambos (6 spd Murcielago fetching $700K now), Porsche 911R or GT2RS, etc.
 


ctrmofo

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Do OEM parts count?
As in if you mod and keep parts? Nope

Or do you mean it still has all OEM parts installed and never removed?
 

peterdawolf

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While I don't think it will appreciate, I think the CTR will hold it's value quite well if left 100% unmodified. I don't really count a Hondata Flashpro and tune in that category, since you can just reflash the factory base map any time you want, but tangible modifications, which I'd argue are pretty fucking unnecessary short of storing the stock wheels and putting on 18's with better rubber.. aka anything that bolts on other than wheels.. will definitely decrease the resale value no matter what. And really.. 20,000 CTR's a year isn't exactly flooding the market. It's a rare car. Base model Civic's and SI's hold value extremely well (better than subaru) so depending on how many years Honda keeps making them (2 years definitely, so 40,000 CTR's on the road for the entire US market).

Also, take into account how many people crack up their CTR's.. I've already seen one for sale at 22k with no front bumper cover. I think there's a chance they could appreciate, but not at the level rare exotics do (of course).

Well done, most bolt on modifications can be reversed completely to restore the car to factory stock. *IF* you save the parts.. *IF* you save all the fasteners and random covers, bits and pieces.

I have to say though.

Short of wheels, unless you're actually racing it, I fail to see why you would bother to modify a CTR. Honestly, it's pretty unnecessary, it's a fairly well engineered package that works great the way it is.

ECU reflash.. I happen to live in Hondata town (Torrance) and plan to go down and talk to them. I can't really say I need it.. and I'd hate to have a last modified time stamp in the ECU that shows it was flashed back and have a warranty issue because of it.
 

Driveitlikeuboughtit

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Everyone speculating about future value is talking out of their ass. If they cease production the year after next, are you guys still going to say it won't increase in value? Or, if they never stop production, that means tons of demand. Think Mustang - yeah, they made a shit ton, but the classic ones are still worth a ton because they're just that popular and the fan base has just grown. Whose to say 20 years from now people aren't fondly reminiscing about the best FF car ever made and clamoring for the rustiest, most beat up gen 1 Type Rs they can find. And paying out the nose for clean examples.

Nobody knows if this car will be a classic, but all the signs are there.

Too many variables - and yeah, there definitely are Type R's being kept in garages and not being driven. Just in case.

Mine isn't a garage queen, but if someone else wants to, more power to them.
 

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I was thinking about this in reference to the 97 ITR thread, but truth is how many people are going to purchase a CTR and store it for 20+ years?

IIRC, the 97 ITR had less than 600 sold in the U.S. and the only MY that had that body style, which would make it the most rare ITR out of the bunch. Also remember dealers asking $30k-$35k when the 97's were released on a $25k vehicle. 98's also had a mark up. It wasn't until the 00 ITR Honda put their foot down and made dealers sell for MSRP.

We don't know how much the original owner paid, could be msrp or could be $5k-$10k mark up. Let's split it in the middle and say he paid $30k. $30k in 97 is equivalent to about $47k today. $63k-$47k = $16k of profit using the current time value. Or you could give him the full $33k increase in profit.

If someone was foolish enough to purchase a CTR as an investment to sell in 20+ years, wouldn't it be better spent on stocks? The average return on stocks from 97 to 2018 is about 11% annually. According to bankrate.com, he would have made up to $240k on that investment in stocks instead.

"Your original investment of $30,000.00 plus your annual investments of $0.00 could be worth $241,869.35 after 20 years. This assumes an annual rate of return of 11% and all of your annual investments happen at the beginning of the year. All values are shown before inflation is taken into account."
 

ctrmofo

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LOL...let me share with you some realistic numbers and pragmattic approach. Anyone who thinks you know investments and car investments, I welcome the debate. I’m in the world of private equity where we get 300%-500% return on investments over 3-5 year period. Let that sink in. That’s no top of other investments I have that nets 25%-60% growth each year.

Simple: Time value of money in the world of investments. A dollar today is worth more than tomorrow due to inflation.

Inflation is currently forecasted at 2% per year through 2023 and beyond. Based on that you’re already LOSING money. Your $35K spent - not invested - needs to be growing at least inflation rate or 2% just to break even. At that rate $35k invested will be $43k after 10 years. Meaning your MINT CTR better have less than 5000 miles in 10 years and fetch $43k for you to break even.

Reality is - you LOST money not break even. Why? Growth at rate of inflation is losing money because you’re NOT getting a return greater than 2% over the 10 year period. Had you invested that $35K in something much higher return, you would have made money.

Therefore your car better damn well fetch at least $45k in 10 years for you to even think of the word “appreciation”. That’s assuming you have another car to drive while you keep you CTR mint all this time. Or you have a great investment portfolio that’s been generating at least 10%+ per year return so that you can keep your CTR wrapped away HOPING for that day to come.

My CTR was free - yes free. Nov 2016 I picked up a butt load of Apple stocks at $108/share. It traded at $225/share yesterday. I more than doubled my money in about 18 months (thank you Apple!) plus dividends every quarter. The gains alone paid for my CTR picked up March 16, 2018. So if you want to INVEST, look elsewhere because you’re dreaming a pipe dream if you sank money into a mass produced car HOPING one day it at least gets you what you paid for - which again is a loss. HOPE is not an investment strategy...it’s a pipe dream.

If you financed your CTR at 5% for 5 years, I haven’t even added that COST yet into the calculations above. That means you better hope for at least 7% (5% + 2%) growth on that $35k over 10 years...LOL!

Be realistic and pragmmatic....
 


ctrmofo

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I was thinking about this in reference to the 97 ITR thread, but truth is how many people are going to purchase a CTR and store it for 20+ years?

IIRC, the 97 ITR had less than 600 sold in the U.S. and the only MY that had that body style, which would make it the most rare ITR out of the bunch. Also remember dealers asking $30k-$35k when the 97's were released on a $25k vehicle. 98's also had a mark up. It wasn't until the 00 ITR Honda put their foot down and made dealers sell for MSRP.

We don't know how much the original owner paid, could be msrp or could be $5k-$10k mark up. Let's split it in the middle and say he paid $30k. $30k in 97 is equivalent to about $47k today. $63k-$47k = $16k of profit using the current time value. Or you could give him the full $33k increase in profit.

If someone was foolish enough to purchase a CTR as an investment to sell in 20+ years, wouldn't it be better spent on stocks? The average return on stocks from 97 to 2018 is about 11% annually. According to bankrate.com, he would have made up to $240k on that investment in stocks instead.

"Your original investment of $30,000.00 plus your annual investments of $0.00 could be worth $241,869.35 after 20 years. This assumes an annual rate of return of 11% and all of your annual investments happen at the beginning of the year. All values are shown before inflation is taken into account."
LMAO....exactly! Those who “invested” in a car in this case CTR is a fool to be absolutely blunt and brutally honest. See my comment. It means the person has no clue what investing is about.

You got it...I make 25-60% return on stocks alone not to mention the $500M private equity fund I manage which has annual minimum return of 20% and does 3x-5x return over 5 years ;-)
 

dn7309

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LOL CTR as an investment. I guess there’s some who still believe that since they are selling their 600 miles CTR on ctaigslist at dealer mark up.

Honda is on pace produce more CTR than the EM1 Si. At least that SI and the ITR were actually limited edition car. The CTR now just the top trim of a civic which mean it is a world car and Honda want to produce as much as possible. My best speculation is that the CTR will depreciate just like the top trim Impreza, Golf, Lancer... etc.

Shit look at how much lambo and ferraris depreciated once they start getting mass produced.
 

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Good thing about the Type R: it's a future classic no matter what. It might not be as $$$ exclusive as some other few expensive cars but it has the best resale value in its segment. If you keep all your parts after mod, you might be able to sell it properly :thumbsup:
 

Driveitlikeuboughtit

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LOL CTR as an investment. I guess there’s some who still believe that since they are selling their 600 miles CTR on ctaigslist at dealer mark up.

Honda is on pace produce more CTR than the EM1 Si. At least that SI and the ITR were actually limited edition car. The CTR now just the top trim of a civic which mean it is a world car and Honda want to produce as much as possible. My best speculation is that the CTR will depreciate just like the top trim Impreza, Golf, Lancer... etc.

Shit look at how much lambo and ferraris depreciated once they start getting mass produced.
So? You can't look at supply only, you have to look at demand as well. Who knows or wants a EM1 Civic Si among today's car buyers? Guaranteed fewer than the number who know or want a Type R.

Worst case scenario, I expect the CTR to depreciate like a STi or Evo - high performance, halo car, relatively low production, Japanese reliability (or the perception of it in some cases).

We'll see.
 

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LOL...let me share with you some realistic numbers and pragmattic approach. Anyone who thinks you know investments and car investments, I welcome the debate. I’m in the world of private equity where we get 300%-500% return on investments over 3-5 year period. Let that sink in. That’s no top of other investments I have that nets 25%-60% growth each year.

Simple: Time value of money in the world of investments. A dollar today is worth more than tomorrow due to inflation.

Inflation is currently forecasted at 2% per year through 2023 and beyond. Based on that you’re already LOSING money. Your $35K spent - not invested - needs to be growing at least inflation rate or 2% just to break even. At that rate $35k invested will be $43k after 10 years. Meaning your MINT CTR better have less than 5000 miles in 10 years and fetch $43k for you to break even.

Reality is - you LOST money not break even. Why? Growth at rate of inflation is losing money because you’re NOT getting a return greater than 2% over the 10 year period. Had you invested that $35K in something much higher return, you would have made money.

Therefore your car better damn well fetch at least $45k in 10 years for you to even think of the word “appreciation”. That’s assuming you have another car to drive while you keep you CTR mint all this time. Or you have a great investment portfolio that’s been generating at least 10%+ per year return so that you can keep your CTR wrapped away HOPING for that day to come.

My CTR was free - yes free. Nov 2016 I picked up a butt load of Apple stocks at $108/share. It traded at $225/share yesterday. I more than doubled my money in about 18 months (thank you Apple!) plus dividends every quarter. The gains alone paid for my CTR picked up March 16, 2018. So if you want to INVEST, look elsewhere because you’re dreaming a pipe dream if you sank money into a mass produced car HOPING one day it at least gets you what you paid for - which again is a loss. HOPE is not an investment strategy...it’s a pipe dream.

If you financed your CTR at 5% for 5 years, I haven’t even added that COST yet into the calculations above. That means you better hope for at least 7% (5% + 2%) growth on that $35k over 10 years...LOL!

Be realistic and pragmmatic....
Dang! Schooled!! :) That's keeping it REAL! At this point, I'm just trying not to loose my ass off; But it's hard man...this Type R is a $$$ pit :banghead: I think it's too late for me guys! Save yourselves :)
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