Honda Sensing on the 2020 CTR

FifStreet

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The ONLY solution which will never happen anytime soon is this -

Zero non autonomous cars - all cars and other vehicles controlled by computers 100% of the time. Then you would have the solution - but putting flawed tech into cars that are supposed to be able to react to whatever, properly? Give me a break

I had a time when I was exiting a highway at 70mph onto a tollway. There was some moron BACKING UP around a basically blind curve that I encountered going 70mph. The ONLY logical thing I could do was scrub a bit of speed and get around them.

If I had some nanny assists or god forbid a Tesla with full autopilot on it would have either locked the brakes or done something else it 'thought was right' and put me in further danger due to the vehicles behind me that were also coming up on this incident.

With a full grid and all vehicles controlled as one, that scenario above would never happen - but until that time - you can take your assists / emergency stopping because some sensor thought it needed to - and get out of my way - the guy WATCHING THE ROAD and driving properly.
Your example has a lot of assumptions about what you think would have happened. I'm glad you are a great driver, but you can turn those features off, and not everybody out there is a great driver and many don't care to be one. I would feel better if those that aren't interested in being better drivers have nannies in their cars.



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NapalmEnema

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Not having those systems makes you a better driver? That's like saying that using tires with less grip or buying cars without airbags makes you a better driver.
That's completely nothing like what I said -- and your analogy is horrible and makes no sense.

People that become reliant on systems are worse drivers. You see it every day. People don't look over their shoulder or check mirrors most times - just face down look at the screen backup camera it must have all the answers! Then they almost run me and my dog over that are taking a walk.

Then you just see - CONSTANTLY - people driving like idiots even WITH all the alerts going off. They still can't help but almost get in accidents regardless of all their tech. And those very same people that are already bad at driving? Are made WORSE at it because they come to believe those systems will do things for them. So they check mirrors less - they can check their phone more. BONUS!

To suggest the overall of these 'partial systems' isn't a negative by and large is a bit comical. I drive - a lot - those things - are not helping - at all.
 

wildbilly32

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Your example has a lot of assumptions about what you think would have happened. I'm glad you are a great driver, but you can turn those features off, and not everybody out there is a great driver and many don't care to be one. I would feel better if those that aren't interested in being better drivers have nannies in their cars.
To me those who don't care or interested to be a better driver shouldn't be driving.
 

turbo lover

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Then you just see - CONSTANTLY - people driving like idiots even WITH all the alerts going off. They still can't help but almost get in accidents regardless of all their tech. And those very same people that are already bad at driving? Are made WORSE at it because they come to believe those systems will do things for them. So they check mirrors less - they can check their phone more. BONUS!
Do you have evidence (not anecdotes) for this? Most research that I have seen indicates that collision avoidance systems decrease collisions and injuries.

https://www.iihs.org/media/7560e1bf...sions avoidance features/35.34-compendium.pdf
https://www.iihs.org/media/259e5bbd...ER ASSISTANCE/IIHS-real-world-CA-benefits.pdf
https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bits...MTRI-2019-6 FINAL .pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
 

wildbilly32

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That's completely nothing like what I said -- and your analogy is horrible and makes no sense.

People that become reliant on systems are worse drivers. You see it every day. People don't look over their shoulder or check mirrors most times - just face down look at the screen backup camera it must have all the answers! Then they almost run me and my dog over that are taking a walk.

Then you just see - CONSTANTLY - people driving like idiots even WITH all the alerts going off. They still can't help but almost get in accidents regardless of all their tech. And those very same people that are already bad at driving? Are made WORSE at it because they come to believe those systems will do things for them. So they check mirrors less - they can check their phone more. BONUS!

To suggest the overall of these 'partial systems' isn't a negative by and large is a bit comical. I drive - a lot - those things - are not helping - at all.
Eggzackery!
 

Dave B

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I am sure most of the folks following this thread are true enthusiasts and take pride in their driving. There is no doubt that if you are paying attention, you will be much less likely to be in an accident and most enthusiasts pay attention to their driving. Unfortunately the statistics (which I am sure are correct) deal with all drivers, not just enthusiasts. The fact that Honda has added safety items to their performance car for 2020 is just an admission that not ALL CTR owners are good drivers.

So for those of us who track their cars, it is vitally important that all of the nannies can be turned off as they can lead to disastrous consequences on the track.

I guess the gist of it is that good attentive drivers are better than computers but computers are better than bad drivers. Frankly I can't wait for fully autonomous cars which will basically take the automobile out of bad driver's hands.
 

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I could not imagine buying a CTR with any luxury accessory like Lane Assist or similar “crash avoidance” systems.

I find these extras to be incredibly distracting, and in a way, taking the fun out of driving.
 

CivilciviC

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Your example has a lot of assumptions about what you think would have happened. I'm glad you are a great driver, but you can turn those features off, and not everybody out there is a great driver and many don't care to be one. I would feel better if those that aren't interested in being better drivers have nannies in their cars.
What makes better drivers is practice and an actual desire to want to get better. What these systems do is make a person turn their brain off and rely on beeps and whatever else do to the thinking for them.

Sorry, but I don't buy your argument. We've somehow as a world wide society been able to drive for ~100 years without needing this stuff in the past, but NOW it's a requirement to be safe on public streets? C'mon now.

What we actually need is to treat driving as a privilege and not a right. I hear my government tout that very same line at least once a year, yet they hand out a license to any dick that can piss, as opposed to implementing some real driver's training.

If someone is too lazy/dumb/ignorant to be able to turn their head to see if they can safely change lanes, a computer system isn't going to make them a better driver. God forbid the system ever fails on an older car. These folks will be completely lost behind the wheel.
 

CivilciviC

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It just occurred to me that we are using different terms here- the drivers aids won't make someone a better driver. I suppose they will make them a safer driver, though.

But not all cars have these systems. And what happens when someone who's come to rely on them moves into a car that doesn't have them? It can definitely happen, even if it's a temporary change. I'd then be terrified driving anywhere near that person.
 

boosted180sx

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unfortunately, to the general public, cars are just a tool to get from point A to B. Like a few has said, statistic does show it lowers accident rates whether we like the system or not.

if you don't like it, just turn it off.
 

FifStreet

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What makes better drivers is practice and an actual desire to want to get better. What these systems do is make a person turn their brain off and rely on beeps and whatever else do to the thinking for them.

Sorry, but I don't buy your argument. We've somehow as a world wide society been able to drive for ~100 years without needing this stuff in the past, but NOW it's a requirement to be safe on public streets? C'mon now.

What we actually need is to treat driving as a privilege and not a right. I hear my government tout that very same line at least once a year, yet they hand out a license to any dick that can piss, as opposed to implementing some real driver's training.

If someone is too lazy/dumb/ignorant to be able to turn their head to see if they can safely change lanes, a computer system isn't going to make them a better driver. God forbid the system ever fails on an older car. These folks will be completely lost behind the wheel.
Yes, as a society we've been "able" to drive for 100 years. But millions of people die and are seriously injured every year. We haven't been able to make those who won't or can't, be safer behind the wheel. So maybe we should try something new?
 

wildbilly32

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If you stay a crappy launderer you still won't possibly kill someone or cause major damage for making a bad soap/bleach/water temp/spin speed decision.
 

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