Honda / No oil change at 20%

[Design]

The dealer is technically correct, believe it or not. I ran this by a couple master techs here in So Cal and a guy out of Torrance. They confirmed it's best to keep the factory fill for the full cycle if possible. In fact, the master techs claim they are being instructed to replace the factory fill when doing snap ring warranty work (which baffles me).

I don't think it's going to make a huge difference either way... take my comments with a grain of salt. But I'm also surprised they turned you away at 20%.

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[Design]

Also, we've been confirming in the UOAs that the MM is pretty conservative. That doesn't give people a reason to extend their intervals. But Blackstone and others are saying there's plenty of life left despite the MM saying otherwise.

 

[PirelliPZero]

I'm still waiting to hear from all of those people that follow the MM to the letter and having their engines require expensive repairs because they didn't change the oil frequently enough. Oh wait, that's not a thing. The only time you run into engine issues is when you have a poorly designed engine where sludge becomes an issue and in those instances, there's nothing you can do (I remember reading how people would change their oil every 1,000 miles to try and avoid the issue to no avail).

I'm not aware of ANYONE that buys a vehicle based on the MM schedule and frankly, I've never SEEN an advertisement for that interval. They could have it every 3,000 miles and it wouldn't affect sales. That makes no sense whatsoever.

The only thing you can trust is hard data. Actual people with actual failures or oil analysis results. I haven't heard of any details to indicate a reason not to follow the MM.

I'm with you on this one. My brother has a 2007 Civic Si. He has followed the Maintenance Minder since Day 1. He is now at well over 200k miles without an issue. Literally zero issues with the car. And this is a car that was driven cross country from East Coast to West Coast with less than 10k miles - then driven on Laguna Seca for a track day - then back to the East Coast. The Maintenance Minder with the track time came up with less than a 3k interval. The MM with his next job - an easy 100mi of pure highway - got regularly close to a 10k interval. Either way, when the 15% came on, he'd change the oil. Or sometimes, if he was busy, it would go to 10 or 5 or 0%, to be completely honest. But here we are, ten years and 200k+ miles later - zero issues, great fuel economy, no concerns whatsoever. (For reference: We did plugs at 100k and 200k, and that's it, engine-wise. Oil has always been synthetic 5w30, usually Mobil1.)

People will continue to do whatever they feel comfortable doing, and that's fine, and I don't care or judge. But yeah, the MM wins our regard. It's very convenient to require no thought or written record - just change the oil when the light comes on.

 

[David Harper]

after extensive research about motor oil on this and also other websites, I have come to the conclusion that everyones right and no one is. You can find an expert opinion to support ANY POINT OF VIEW AT ALL!!!!!!! It's amazing. Yes, there is special breakin oil. No, there's no such thing as special breakin oil. Dirty oil needs to be changed. Dirty oil is still just as good as clean oil.Synthetic oil is superior to conventional oil. A good conventional oil is just as good as synthetic. Change your oil. Don't change your oil. It's like listening to Trump's press secretary state "alternate facts". His inaugeration crowd was the biggest in history! There's more than one set of true facts for any given question, apparently.

 

[MarcOTT]

after extensive research about motor oil on this and also other websites, I have come to the conclusion that everyones right and no one is. You can find an expert opinion to support ANY POINT OF VIEW AT ALL!!!!!!! It's amazing. Yes, there is special breakin oil. No, there's no such thing as special breakin oil. Dirty oil needs to be changed. Dirty oil is still just as good as clean oil.Synthetic oil is superior to conventional oil. A good conventional oil is just as good as synthetic. Change your oil. Don't change your oil. It's like listening to Trump's press secretary state "alternate facts". His inaugeration crowd was the biggest in history! There's more than one set of true facts for any given question, apparently.

I agree with you Dave.
This is why Honda and most manufacturers design their vehicles with a MM- OCI, stop guessing and the OCI, with today's well engineered oils, are conservative enough to provide safe engine lubrication. . . . see PirrelliPZero's response above.

 

[Civicguy1206]

Hello, i have an appointment later on today for a oil change with Honda and my buddy also has a civic coupe but when he went in for an oil change they told him he has to come in with 15% percent not 20% making him waste his time driving to his dealer which is about an hour away. So i was wondering if i should just cancel my appointment and just way till i get to 15% or just go to my dealer which is also about and hour away and maybe take the chance? Has anyone had there oil change done at 20% ? Thanks for the help !

You should change it yourself.

 

[MarcOTT]

You should change it yourself.

Yes, but this 10th gen Civic is the most cumbersome in changing oil, having to confront low vehicle height and the shield covering the oil pan/filter area. After 40 years of DIY, I could sure use a lift.

 

[lurker_j]

Yes, but this 10th gen Civic is the most cumbersome in changing oil, having to confront low vehicle height and the shield covering the oil pan/filter area. After 40 years of DIY, I could sure use a lift.

If you do it yourself, make sure you have some oil filter grips. Mine was stuck on their pretty good and none of the filter caps or wrenchs I tried worked until I just got some grips with teeth.

 

[PhilF]

Hello, i have an appointment later on today for a oil change with Honda and my buddy also has a civic coupe but when he went in for an oil change they told him he has to come in with 15% percent not 20% making him waste his time driving to his dealer which is about an hour away. So i was wondering if i should just cancel my appointment and just way till i get to 15% or just go to my dealer which is also about and hour away and maybe take the chance? Has anyone had there oil change done at 20% ? Thanks for the help !

Sounds like Seinfeld! , the oil change Nazi, "No oil change a for you" lol

 

[Captain]

I always waiting until %5 then take appointment oil change.

 

[racer]

fwiw, my dealer didn't want to change my factory fill till it was at 15% or less.

 

[darkness975]

I don't go to a stealership for oil changes. I go to a local guy that is well liked. I just always make sure to remind them of the type of oil that is recommended in the manual. It says "genuine honda motor oil or any (insert random number here because I don't know) oil is what is supposed to be used. I don't believe it is necessary to always remind them but it doesn't hurt.

The only time I waited for 15% was the first one when the car was brand new. That is also the only time I went to the stealership (free first oil change).

Haven't seen them since.

 

[pjw7454]

That's bullshit... they can change the oil even if it's at 80%. If they say that I suggest you change dealer.

That’s because they may be based on company policies. Not to do it before a certain %

 

[aarong24]

Part of my problem is the cascading thinking. If I were to convince myself that the MM could NOT be trusted then where does it end?

For instance, my 2000 Miata. Pre-MM. Even doing all of the maintenance myself, I've racked up thousands in likely unnecessary maintenance. Replacing transmission/diff fluids every year, spark plugs every year or two, brake/clutch field every year, coolant every year, air filters every year, etc, etc. It really adds up over time. You let fear in and then when you read about people that change their transmission fluid with every oil change, you start believing its necessary too. Can you really go 100k (at least on my Pilot) on spark plugs? 100k for coolant?

That's why I trust the MM. The Honda engineers designed it to make people like me not worry. I trust them because they have every reason NOT to have these longer intervals but choose to for our benefit.

My 97 GMC called for 150k coolant and the same for the plugs. So I'd think you for sure could do the same in a newer honda.

 

[PhilF]

I guess I'm lucky, got a dealer with an excellent service dept, service manager is a good friend, also have a long-standing relationship with their lead mechanic, he's the only one who works on my Civic & my wife's Fit. The Fit is a 2016, only has about 7k on it, did the first change at 1 yr, about 5k. My 2019 Touring is a week old, has about 245 mi on it. Planning to run it to 5k for its first change. I generally drive 10-12k/yr. Plan on using Mobil1 EP 0W-20 & Mobil1 filters in it, will look at the MM, but generally use 5k interval for OC & tire rotation, also like my mechanic to go over the car every 5k or 6 months. Dealer does a check sheet, brakes, fluid levels, etc, no charge. I provide my own oil/filters as I generally like to stick with the Mobil1. Depending on an oil analysis after I run the EP 5k, may extend out to 7500 unless the MM indicates sooner. My 2016 EX-L's MM was usually at 30% or so at 5k using Mobil1 EFM 0W-20, so I'm comfortable with that. Good oil is relatively cheap, engines are expensive, so changing oil a bit earlier than the MM & getting the car gone over by people I trust, especially my wife's car, gives me confidence. YMMV
Phil

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