Honda Civic Type R vs Toyota Yaris GR

tinyman392

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So Car and Driver Road and Track has an article about a Yaris GR pushing 280 HP to the wheels. This is about what a Focus RS does to the wheels stock. All this in a package that weighs 2800 lbs (86/BRZ weight). There are rumors of this motor heading into a Corolla, that would basically make it a Focus RS in terms of power and weight. Maybe a bit lighter since it's a 3-cylinder motor. I don't know what Toyota is doing to that motor, but it's got to be push near its edge to perform like that!

Edit 1: Link to article: https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a34715629/2021-toyota-gr-yaris-dyno-video/

Edit 2: So the video in the article shows CHP (crank) while the article said it was wheel. So the Yaris' power to weight ratio is on par (if not slightly better) than the Focus RS. If you put it in the Corolla... Which already weighs in at 3000 lbs... Oof.
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a 3 cyl can't produce 280HP this has to be some kind of hybrid with like 120HP worth of electric power. Well...unless it's like a 1.8L turbo charged 3 cyl with some massive pistons in there or something but why would you build that?

This is a very strange story...can you link the article?
 

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The dyno video showed 274-278 Corrected Engine HorsePower.

That's nothing to bother with, it just means the air conditions were nice. CTR's regularly dyno 300 *wheel* horsepower in good conditions, and below 200 if you get them hot enough. Turbo cars are silly like that, the horsepower numbers quoted from the factory are all conservative nowadays.
 

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I think the GR Yaris and upcoming Corolla GR Hatch slots between the Si and Type R. Price point should be smack dab in the middle also. Probably not fair to compare to an R.
 


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a 3 cyl can't produce 280HP this has to be some kind of hybrid with like 120HP worth of electric power. Well...unless it's like a 1.8L turbo charged 3 cyl with some massive pistons in there or something but why would you build that?

This is a very strange story...can you link the article?
Sorry, it was Road and Track: https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a34715629/2021-toyota-gr-yaris-dyno-video/ @Shred Sorry, I said Car and Driver instead of Road and Track. Mixed it up I guess :/

The dyno video showed 274-278 Corrected Engine HorsePower.

That's nothing to bother with, it just means the air conditions were nice. CTR's regularly dyno 300 *wheel* horsepower in good conditions, and below 200 if you get them hot enough. Turbo cars are silly like that, the horsepower numbers quoted from the factory are all conservative nowadays.
If it's corrected I'm more confident in the numbers. That said, the CTR is known for doing 290-300 WHP in normal conditions. I've never seen it do below like 270-ish. If you have a video of it doing less than 200 I'd love to see it.
 
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tinyman392

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I think the GR Yaris and upcoming Corolla GR Hatch slots between the Si and Type R. Price point should be smack dab in the middle also. Probably not fair to compare to an R.
If the GR Corolla can put down this sort of power to the wheels, it won't slot between the Si and Type R. It might be in line with the Type R actually in terms of performance. Specifically if it weighs around the 3500 mark, it will be in line with the Focus RS. If it weighs less, it'll be a very close one.

Edit: if this power number is correct, straight line (roll or dig) this Yaris should easily beat out the Type R by a very narrow margin with the Yaris hitting about a 10.0 weight per WHP and the Type R hitting a 10.3-10.7.
 

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If the GR Corolla can put down this sort of power to the wheels, it won't slot between the Si and Type R. It might be in line with the Type R actually in terms of performance. Specifically if it weighs around the 3500 mark, it will be in line with the Focus RS. If it weighs less, it'll be a very close one.

Edit: if this power number is correct, straight line (roll or dig) this Yaris should easily beat out the Type R by a very narrow margin with the Yaris hitting about a 10.0 weight per WHP and the Type R hitting a 10.3-10.7.
Looks like that vid from R&T is showing 278 at the crank. It'll prob be closer to 250-260 to the wheels.
 
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tinyman392

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Looks like that vid from R&T is showing 278 at the crank. It'll prob be closer to 250-260 to the wheels.
Oh crap, the video is crank. The article said wheels.

So that's going to be even worse then. With AWD* it would probably be around 225 to the wheels. That pushes the power to weight ratio back up to the 12.4. Still near Focus RS territory though (base dyno around 270-280 if memory serves for those). So the RS would be a 12.5-13.0. Still impressive, but not nearly as much :/ Especially if it's put into a Corolla.

*When I estimate WHP I normally factor in 10% loss for FF/MR (rear motor), 15% for FR, and 20% for AWD. This was based on something EngineeringExplained (the YouTube channel) said.
 

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Oh crap, the video is crank. The article said wheels.

So that's going to be even worse then. With AWD* it would probably be around 225 to the wheels. That pushes the power to weight ratio back up to the 12.4. Still near Focus RS territory though (base dyno around 270-280 if memory serves for those). So the RS would be a 12.5-13.0. Still impressive, but not nearly as much :/ Especially if it's put into a Corolla.

*When I estimate WHP I normally factor in 10% loss for FF/MR (rear motor), 15% for FR, and 20% for AWD. This was based on something EngineeringExplained (the YouTube channel) said.
Yup, 278 at the crank with what could be 10-15% drivetrain loss for AWD. Modern engines with such precise machining and advanced oils don't experience as much loss as back in the day. Nowadays it's like 5-10% loss at most for cars with 1 driven axle.

I still stand by my comment of the future Corolla GR being slotted between the Si and R. Especially since by the time it comes out, we'll probably have specs for the 11th gen Si and R. I expect the new 11th gen Si to be in the low-mid 200s and the R to be in the low-mid 300s as far as HP/ Ft-lbs TQ goes. I know some people are hoping for 400s, but I doubt Honda will go that route in this next gen.
 


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If it's corrected I'm more confident in the numbers. That said, the CTR is known for doing 290-300 WHP in normal conditions. I've never seen it do below like 270-ish. If you have a video of it doing less than 200 I'd love to see it.
A stock CTR will just about fail to pass a Miata in a straight line after ~5 WOT laps on track, it's absolutely miserable.
 

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a 3 cyl can't produce 280HP this has to be some kind of hybrid with like 120HP worth of electric power. Well...unless it's like a 1.8L turbo charged 3 cyl with some massive pistons in there or something but why would you build that?

This is a very strange story...can you link the article?
Well it can brah :lol: 3 cylinder doesnt mean it must be tiny little engine
At 600 horsepower and 443 pound-feet of torque, the 2.0-liter three-cylinder goes against much larger engines, including V-8s developed by Ferrari and McLaren.

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-n...-the-internal-combustion-engine-ar187900.html
 
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tinyman392

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A stock CTR will just about fail to pass a Miata in a straight line after ~5 WOT laps on track, it's absolutely miserable.
That‘a like completely heat soaked. Not sure who’s dynoing their car in that condition. I know that intercooler heat soak eats up a little less than 10% of power. Limp mode is a whole different story.
 

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Having taken a GR out for a test drive, they are a fun little beast and they are definitely competition for a Type R. I only got to drive it for 30 minutes in traffic and a motorway, but it has all the power of the Civic AND gets it to the ground in a far more efficient manner off the line. Having said that, I don't think it's a good daily driver, the Civic is the better all-rounder, the GR is really a 2 seater with a rear seat thrown in for laughs. Would I own one? Hell yes, a couple of mates have them and I suspect that Toyota downplayed the real power output.
 

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Honda could've put the 2.0ltr turbo into an awd version of the Honda Fit. There is already an AWD version on the fit in South America. I loved my Honda Fit.
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