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Honda Civic Type-R Over sticker dealer naughty list.

17CivicTypeR_Brian

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What if, as part of the Hype Train that the TypeR has become, the dealers are all currently talking a big game about $10k markups, then when we get to the dealer to look at it, they change their tune to just $1000 markup? Based on rumor, you'd think you're making out pretty well! I'm curious to see if that is part of the game.

@jdmk20akid the sales guy I talked to yesterday said they were getting their supply in June/July, it would be 1 at first followed by perhaps another 1. When 2018MY starts, they'd send 300/month to the US.



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jdmk20akid

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Yes everything that your salesman told you is the same information. The only thing I didn't hear is 300 per month, and based on how my dealer principal acted I think we may only see 1500-2000 per year.

But yes, from what I understand every dealership is getting a initially supplied 1, then MAYBE another this year.

The only saving grace is that at the LA Auto con meeting the guy said that they production can slightly vary year by year. So hopefully after the first year or second year they can pump up production numbers. But we'll see I suppose.
 

17CivicTypeR_Brian

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Yes everything that your salesman told you is the same information. The only thing I didn't hear is 300 per month, and based on how my dealer principal acted I think we may only see 1500-2000 per year.

But yes, from what I understand every dealership is getting a initially supplied 1, then MAYBE another this year.

The only saving grace is that at the LA Auto con meeting the guy said that they production can slightly vary year by year. So hopefully after the first year or second year they can pump up production numbers. But we'll see I suppose.
Damn man I'm starting to worry. Not so much that I 'need' a car as my Si is only 8 years old...just I've grown so accustomed to the idea that I'm getting a new car this year. I guess I'll keep reaching out to dealers and see if I can lock one down.
 
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Yes everything that your salesman told you is the same information. The only thing I didn't hear is 300 per month, and based on how my dealer principal acted I think we may only see 1500-2000 per year.

But yes, from what I understand every dealership is getting a initially supplied 1, then MAYBE another this year.

The only saving grace is that at the LA Auto con meeting the guy said that they production can slightly vary year by year. So hopefully after the first year or second year they can pump up production numbers. But we'll see I suppose.
Dealers are in business to get the maximum profit from each car...Honda is in business to sell the maximum number of cars. Dealer personnel say 1500/year.....the executive VP of American Honda said he hopes to sell several thousand a month. At the risk of slightly overstating reality, dealers are businesspeople that love any opportunity to sell for over sticker and are not above "coloring perceptions" to achieve this goal. Time will tell.
 

pdiizeru

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Dealers are in business to get the maximum profit from each car...Honda is in business to sell the maximum number of cars. Dealer personnel say 1500/year.....the executive VP of American Honda said he hopes to sell several thousand a month. At the risk of slightly overstating reality, dealers are businesspeople that love any opportunity to sell for over sticker and are not above "coloring perceptions" to achieve this goal. Time will tell.
So I don't ruin my savings and do a 7 year payment plan, what is your source for the VP's statement on selling several thousand a month?:dance:
 
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17CivicTypeR_Brian

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Here - http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2015/4/...News-About-The-US-Honda-Civic-Type-R-7726389/

The initial rollout of Type-R's should be hectic. We will know about real world availability once the 2018 MY starts.
I'm just worried that they'll sell out at the dealers will mark it up over MSRP, it won't sell out instantly, and Honda will decide it's not as desirable as they thought and cancel further TypeR sales in the US.
Now I don't think that will actually happen, but I really don't know how they work. If I did, I could explain why they waited all these years to bring us the CTR.
 
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I'm just worried that they'll sell out at the dealers will mark it up over MSRP, it won't sell out instantly, and Honda will decide it's not as desirable as they thought and cancel further TypeR sales in the US.
Now I don't think that will actually happen, but I really don't know how they work. If I did, I could explain why they waited all these years to bring us the CTR.
One theory.....the Integra Type-R was a US sales bust and American Honda adopted a "once burned, twice saved philosophy". Sales of the Integra Type-R were well under 100/month for 1997 and 1998 and American Honda requested that no 1999's be sent here so the remaining 1998 inventory could be sold off. New sales resumed in the 2000 model year, sales climbed slightly to a little over 100/month and then dipped back under 100/month for 2001. That led to the model being discontinued in the US. Great enthusiast car but not worth the effort for American Honda.

Perhaps they want to do it differently this time.
 

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The problem with the Type R history is it wasnt over priced but out of most peoples mental price range. Back in 2000 an Integra Type R cost $24,400 or you could buy a Civic Ex coupe for $14,300. It was like a 10k difference that I didn't choose. But today Honda has put 30k Civics on the market and what kind of residual will they have? Sooner or later we will find out. Most people don't want to spend 18k+ on a used civic period. Honda may have a ruff resale value future.
 

17CivicTypeR_Brian

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One theory.....the Integra Type-R was a US sales bust and American Honda adopted a "once burned, twice saved philosophy". Sales of the Integra Type-R were well under 100/month for 1997 and 1998 and American Honda requested that no 1999's be sent here so the remaining 1998 inventory could be sold off. New sales resumed in the 2000 model year, sales climbed slightly to a little over 100/month and then dipped back under 100/month for 2001. That led to the model being discontinued in the US. Great enthusiast car but not worth the effort for American Honda.

Perhaps they want to do it differently this time.
True true. I think they blame the death of the Prelude on a similar reasoning.

I think you're right about them doing it differently this time...As you, and I'm sure others, remember, the ITR was slick but to the average person, not much more desirable than a GSR. The GSR offered similar levels of power and performance with leather, A/C, and a moonroof. We all know now that the GSR lacked LSD and the brakes were a bit smaller, and they weren't stitch welded like the ITR, but the Type R was a lot more comparable to the other Honda offerings back then. If your goal was to go reasonably fast straight, you could turbo the GSR and beat the TypeR by 100hp reliably. It still couldn't get around corners like the R, but the power was enough to make up for it everywhere except the Autocross sized circuits. Add to that the 99-00 Civic Si, the Del Sol Si of 98, and the Prelude SH and you had so many Honda options that were admitedly not a TypeR, but were also not really that far off - and the addition of the moon roof and A/C and definitely the lower sticker price definitely made 'settling' a bit easier considering the cars were being daily driven anyway.
With the new way of things... it is no comparison I think. You can barely find a manual Civic. The Civic Si, instead of starting out with 80% of the power of the TypeR, is probably starting with closer to 70% of the power with less capacity to 'add power' and try to keep up with the TypeR in the straight. We're going to need to pretty much double the output of the Si to have a chance to keep up with the TypeR in the straight. There is no Acura MT that is relevant to the discussion.
So, the stage is set. For people that are thinking they definitely want the TypeR, they won't be able to settle for much less, because there is nothing less. The Si is the closest thing and it is really not comparable except that it's FWD. You won't go in for a TypeR and fall in love with a Prelude...because there isn't one. You probably won't go in for a TypeR and leave with a Civic Touring because it's CVT.

It will be an interesting year!
 

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I think the BIG issue now is that a basic manual EXT or Hatch LX is a good 15k less than a TypeR and are quite a happy medium of economy and fun. After 6 months of the Type R 2017 Honda will be hard pressed to hit 100 sales per month. If I was spending 25k I would buy a WRX. No question. Back in 2013 I bought a Si coupe for 20k brand new because it was several thousand less than a WRX. The 2016 Focus ST are still on clearance for 20k right now. Honda is getting out of control with there pricing.



20k Focus ST http://www.carsdirect.com/build/options?zipcode=48180&acode=USC60FOC301A0

26k WRX http://www.carsdirect.com/build/options?zipcode=48180&acode=USC70SUC171A0

2.0L H-4 268 HP 258.0 ft.lbs. @ 2,000 rpm

That WRX is a lot of car for the money. AWD too. They pull hard and with little modding itching into TypeR power class.


 
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Shankmeyster

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Luckily there are rules at Penske dealers that you can't markup new cars as it is against company policy. Now whether or not that is followed explicitly I have no idea, it's just what we were told.

I also hope that Honda will see how hard their dealers are marking the car up, and how much that will hinder sales with so many other options at the price, and put their foot down if they want people to continue buying.
 
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erbee

erbee

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Luckily there are rules at Penske dealers that you can't markup new cars as it is against company policy. Now whether or not that is followed explicitly I have no idea, it's just what we were told.

I also hope that Honda will see how hard their dealers are marking the car up, and how much that will hinder sales with so many other options at the price, and put their foot down if they want people to continue buying.

No mark-up, yes. Mandatory $5,000 tint .
 

lbiaggi

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True true. I think they blame the death of the Prelude on a similar reasoning.

I think you're right about them doing it differently this time...As you, and I'm sure others, remember, the ITR was slick but to the average person, not much more desirable than a GSR. The GSR offered similar levels of power and performance with leather, A/C, and a moonroof. We all know now that the GSR lacked LSD and the brakes were a bit smaller, and they weren't stitch welded like the ITR, but the Type R was a lot more comparable to the other Honda offerings back then. If your goal was to go reasonably fast straight, you could turbo the GSR and beat the TypeR by 100hp reliably. It still couldn't get around corners like the R, but the power was enough to make up for it everywhere except the Autocross sized circuits. Add to that the 99-00 Civic Si, the Del Sol Si of 98, and the Prelude SH and you had so many Honda options that were admitedly not a TypeR, but were also not really that far off - and the addition of the moon roof and A/C and definitely the lower sticker price definitely made 'settling' a bit easier considering the cars were being daily driven anyway.
With the new way of things... it is no comparison I think. You can barely find a manual Civic. The Civic Si, instead of starting out with 80% of the power of the TypeR, is probably starting with closer to 70% of the power with less capacity to 'add power' and try to keep up with the TypeR in the straight. We're going to need to pretty much double the output of the Si to have a chance to keep up with the TypeR in the straight. There is no Acura MT that is relevant to the discussion.
So, the stage is set. For people that are thinking they definitely want the TypeR, they won't be able to settle for much less, because there is nothing less. The Si is the closest thing and it is really not comparable except that it's FWD. You won't go in for a TypeR and fall in love with a Prelude...because there isn't one. You probably won't go in for a TypeR and leave with a Civic Touring because it's CVT.

It will be an interesting year!
I agree . Prelude dont make me cry ps: i have prelude vanity plate ( depating using it on the ctr since i am retiring my current lude)
 

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Hey fellas, I think we got a new mark-up champ!

Update out of the Sacramento, CA area.... I've been in contact with a few dealerships in the area. I hit up Vacaville Honda. Initially, they appears to be taking deposits ($500), and a waiting list. Long story short, I was 3rd in line. Anyway today, I got an email and a call from my rep. They cancelled the waiting list due to high demand. Here is their wack explanation.

Check it out....

<quote> So, the hype for the type R has blown up and to prevent major disappointment, my GM has decided against taking deposits. I can shred your check or you may pick it up. Let me know which you prefer. I will keep your information and contact you when we get one in. Each dealer may receive 1 or 2 for the YEAR, as only 3,000 are being produced for the country! He will sell the vehicle for $25,000 markup, otherwise it will be a showroom piece. Would an si be of interest?
Vacaville Honda
751 Orange Drive
Vacaville, CA 95687
www.vacavillehonda.com

<quote>

haha... Ridiculous.
 

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