Help me decide--2019 CTR or 2018 M2?

RS27

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I was a bmw insane enthusiast nutjob from 2000-about 2014. Owned 15 of them. Still have a slick top E46 M3. The last of the greats. Take my advice. Do NOT buy what the suv-loving BMW has become. They make absolute garbage cars now. I am in the service industry with heavy ties to the local BMW service center. The stories are horrifying. You think Honda has gone soft of reliability? Boy do I have stories for you.....



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I was a bmw insane enthusiast nutjob from 2000-about 2014. Owned 15 of them. Still have a slick top E46 M3. The last of the greats. Take my advice. Do NOT buy what the suv-loving BMW has become. They make absolute garbage cars now. I am in the service industry with heavy ties to the local BMW service center. The stories are horrifying. You think Honda has gone soft of reliability? Boy do I have stories for you.....
To say they're garage cars is an exaggeration. The refinement, luxury, comfort and technology today is not the same as yesterday. Every car manufacturers have to raise those standards every time they introduce a new model. People tend to get that mixed up with being "soft", "non-direct" and "not raw enough". Not everyone wants vibrations in the cabin, hear engine noise and feel everything on the road. I have some horrible experience with BMW service department as well, but the amount of cars they service daily, things will happen. Majority of luxury car owners don't do work on their own car. Horrible stories happen everywhere at every dealership.
 

19typeRblk

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@RS26. You are correct, the newer BMW are amazing and very capable, but buyer beware when they are out of warranty!
Even the E46 M3 need rod bearing if tracked
I bought my first BMW in 1973, a 2002ti ( wow do I wish I still had that one) over the years E30 M3, E36 M3, E28 M5 and E34M5 plus a bunch other ones. My last one was a 2008 535i and I must say over the years all were very reliable with routine maintenance.
I've never been a fan of front wheel drive cars. You have to deal touque steer and understeer and putting power down. The CTR has done an excellent job of dealing with that, but it will understeer at the limit
And that limit is very high!
I've done a lot of track days and my track car was a 89 Porsche 944 Turbo S, great track car 50/50 weight distribution and rear wheel drive.. Decided to sell the track car, truck&trailer and buy a street/track car.
I seriously considered a used M2 but possible maintenence issues after track use put me off, never mind costing close to $50 k which was somewhat over my budget. But actually after a test drive I really wanted the Ford GT350R used of coase, but again over my budget. But wow did it like the handling and that flatplane crank V8 Was it the same quality as the BMW M2, no but I would still go for the GT350R........one can dream can't they??? So after watching over 50 YouTube vids about the CTR I went out and bought a 2019 Black one. So for a car that I can take out four people comfortably, go get a bunch of mulch and then go to the track was an easy decision for me. Trust me it's a very capable track car out of the box, but with a few mods even more so. I know someone that has taken his modified CTR around VIR in 1.68 minutes..........thats insane! I know Porsche GT3's struggle to do VIR in 2 minutes
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19typeRblk

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Watch "BMW M2 Competition vs Honda Civic Type R - TRACK REVIEW // DRAG RACE & LAP TIMES" on YouTube
 

jred721

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Not a type R owner but i'm just gonna say this: you're asking a type R forum (and hence type R owners) how they feel about their car versus another so obviously there are going to be more bias responses (not necessarily their fault just an observation). So that being said, I think some people hit the nail on the head. The BMW is well...a BMW. You'll get a luxurious interior combined with amazing performance and as far as reviews go, many people regard the BMW M2 as the best BMW they currently sell right now so there's that. On the CTR side, you've got the king of all FWD cars and a car that is arguably one of the best values for money right now. You won't get the luxurious interior or that straight 6 turbo engine but you'll get world class handling and performance especially on a track, so it just depends what you value more in a car.

As far as maintenance goes as a current BMW owner (2018 M550i) I will say you will obviously pay more for maintenance costs on a BMW (especially an M car) over a Honda Civic even if it's a Type R, it's just the way it is. Type R will certainly be cheaper to maintain and own overall in the long run there's no doubt about that. However, BMW's are NOT unreliable cars necessarily and in fact my previous BMW was also rock solid reliable because I kept up with the maintenance by the book and it never failed me. My current one is too new to say but I anticipate the same thing.
 

Dave B

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I am in a similar boat to the OP. OTOH, my present track car is an 04 C5Z06 Corvette with a few suspension mods. Neatest thing about this car is that is weighs very close to a CTR but has a ton more power with no turbo lag and rear wheel drive.

That being said, the CTR has better brakes, better shifter/transmission, better aero and better seats than my Corvette and can carry stuff. I am sure you can get a bigger rear sway bar to help with some of the understeer. If all I needed was a track car, I would just keep the Corvette but the CTR really seems like a tremendous compromise and even though there is a loss of power to weight ratio, most of the fun on the track is in the corners, not the straights. Power on oversteer is only fast if limited and is often just a way to go slower.

Remember that despite what Consumer's reports might say, you have to enjoy the daily driving experience if the car is going to do double duty and whether one car is 1 second faster in the quarter mile means diddley.

As for the BMW, it weighs almost as much as a NASCAR stocker and if that is considered a benefit then why not buy a Dodge Challenger? Weight it the enemy at the track not just in acceleration but handling and braking as well. I think the vast majority of track rats would prefer a 2500lb car with 250 hp to a 4000 lb car with 400 hp unless you are spending all you time at Daytona. The BMW NEEDS those huge rotors. Does the BMW use wheel bolts like most other German cars vs studs and nuts? If you are changing wheels at the track, that is a serious PITA.

So I am selling my C5Z and likely my street only Mazda3 and likely buying a CTR. It still doesn't steer as well as my Corvette, and I really don't like turbo lag (and yes to those who are not used to Amercian V8s, you DO have turbo lag and so does the BMW) but it is a helluva good all round package.
 

123sillyboy123

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So I am selling my C5Z and likely my street only Mazda3 and likely buying a CTR. It still doesn't steer as well as my Corvette, and I really don't like turbo lag (and yes to those who are not used to Amercian V8s, you DO have turbo lag and so does the BMW) but it is a helluva good all round package.
I am not familiar with corvette, correct me if i am wrong, I thought corvette is V8 NA not turbo? or no? thought it is V8 pushing 400ish horse.
 

ipeefreely

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I chose the CTR over an M2. Hated the M2. But i was mainly using it as a track car.

I think for a DD and occasional track day vehicle, the M2 would be better.

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dsm_mikey

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ipeefreely Just wondering why you hated the M2 as a track car...can you detail a bit more. I am interested in your feedback! M2 v CTR. I am not considering the M2, I have a 2020 due to arrive any day now. I love different cars and am always curious how each car compares to others!

Thanks!
 

RS27

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C5 Z06 is a 5.7 LS6 with 405hp. N/A with (as said above) INSTANT throttle response. The thing is nearly 20 years old and still fast as hell. Stock they are 3.9 to 60 and trap 116-118 mph. They would destroy a full bolt on Type R straight off the showroom floor lol.

The comment above about “all makes of cars have horror stories” is totally 100% false. Honda has zero cars that get downed for weeks on end. Waiting for corporate to help fix the debacle. That shit happens ALL THE TIME with German and American cars. I can’t disclose what I do exaxctly for a living. Let’s just say I know this area of talk very well. For the brand I work with and the co workers I have that worked with others. It covers all major manufacturers.

My fiancé and I leased a BMW that had 3000 miles on it because it was a loaner for a rich lady that had a M5 BMW had down for 4 months. You can keep your sound deadening and ride quality. Not worth that for a pos car. Remember, I defended BMW since I was 8 years old riding in my dads brand new E30 M3. I know the brand. They are NOT a good car anymore. They are a money brand. A brand that brags about 0-60. Not driving experience.
When their “light car” is 3600 lbs?! Give me a break.
 

ipeefreely

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ipeefreely Just wondering why you hated the M2 as a track car...can you detail a bit more. I am interested in your feedback! M2 v CTR. I am not considering the M2, I have a 2020 due to arrive any day now. I love different cars and am always curious how each car compares to others!

Thanks!
Hmm... Where do I start...

I got my M2 for about 45k.

Tracked it the first time with nothing on it except some aftermarket pads. So basically stock. Car understeered like crazy and whenever I tried to drive a bit more aggressively, the traction control would turn on. Disabled traction control and didn't realize that my brand new tires and brakes were basically cooked so I almost put the car into a wall. The seats also provided little to no support (they used the cheaper BMW seats vs the nicer ones in the M4) so every turn I was using my knees to stop myself from moving around. So yeah, ended the first track day with almost totaling my car and severe bruising on both my knees. Fun stuff.

Added coilovers, cage (and harness), sway bars, and upgraded the brakes.

Took it out to Sonoma and almost put the car into the wall again because the brakes overheated in my second session. Car was also severely heat soaking and down on power. Granted it was 80-90 degrees out but still.

Added a full exhaust, intake, changed the brake fluid and tune.

Took it out to Laguna. Cooked the brakes AGAIN. Harnesses weren't working as it was restraining me but my knees were hitting the sides of the cockpit. Car still heat soaked like crazy. Ended up with a laptime that was ~6 seconds slower than a lap in my s2k.

At this point, I realized the main issue is the weight of the car. The M2 looks "tiny" but when you really dig into it, the thing is a hog. They were saying that this car is the closest modern day rendition of the E46 but I can guarantee you it doesn't even come close. It weighs close to 3500 lbs but only makes 360 hp. By comparison a ZL1 1LE weighs about 300 lbs more but also makes about 300 more HP. lol.

Anwyays... I was closing in on spending over 60k into the car (45k for the initial purchase and 15k in mods) and would still need another 10-15k to make it OKAY to track. So you really got to at this point consider whether or not there are better options. Because even if you did mod everything, you're still left with this heavy chassis that would drive consumables UP.

So I weighed my options. Do I sell it and if I did, what else would I get? Was debating between a CTR and the GT4. Ended up with the CTR because honestly the gt4 was nearly triple the price and wasn't nearly as mod-able.

So yeah. The CTR isn't perfect but for my intended use and purpose, I'd choose it over the M2 any day.
 

Dave B

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I am not familiar with corvette, correct me if i am wrong, I thought corvette is V8 NA not turbo? or no? thought it is V8 pushing 400ish horse.
My point is that when someone says "this model has hardly any turbo lag" what they really mean is that they can live with it and it is less than other turbo cars. As mentioned above the C5Z Corvette has instantaneous throttle response and is clearly the superior track car to either the CTR or the M2. OTOH, it really isn't very useful as a daily driver and does give up the previously mentioned seat, shifter, aero and especially brakes to the CTR. What it excels in is its rear wheel drive platform and great wgt/hp numbers. It will seem a bit sad to not have the Corvette at the track but people seem to enjoy the CTR immensely and not so much the M2. BTW in my time-attack series, the CTRs are closer to my Corvette times than the couple of M2s that have shown up. Obviously this is somewhat driver/tire dependent.
 

RS27

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^thanks for that input on your M2 ownership. Any of you that watch YouTube “SavageGeese” should watch his similar experience with his E92 M3 that was a money pit and fairly incapable on track. Sad being that is bmws track model.
 

ipeefreely

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^thanks for that input on your M2 ownership. Any of you that watch YouTube “SavageGeese” should watch his similar experience with his E92 M3 that was a money pit and fairly incapable on track. Sad being that is bmws track model.
I watch that channel! From time to time that is. Really like the format of his videos because his reviews seem to not only be very thorough but genuine.

On that note, I really don't know why all the other auto journalist were raving about the M2. It is hardly a return of form for BMW.
 

RS27

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On that note, I really don't know why all the other auto journalist were raving about the M2. It is hardly a return of form for BMW.
Right?! A “return to form” would be a 135 sized coupe, with a 3.2 I6, in a 2950lb body with 280hp. Lol.
 








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